Leo Gura

Policing Is Hard Work

412 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I think when police officers show extreme emotions or they are going through some personal crisis, they should be either laid off with some compensation or given temporary break before bringing them on the force. But since this can be costly in terms of paid leave, I think the best idea it to fire them. 

Considering the rigors of a police job, if you look into the above cases and examples, it's easy to see that being a cop needs a mentally tough person who is not emotional but reasonable enough to understand human situations. This is tricky. Because most people are either overly emotional or not emotional at all. 

I had a friend who was a pilot in the US coast guard. At one point, she went through a really hard breakup, which included stalking, and a bunch of childhood abuse issues came up. The coast guard “grounded” her from flying her plane. Yet not as punishment. She just wasn’t fit to fly her plane. They switched her to an office job and she got therapy. To me, it seemed like a supportive environment and she was able to fly again after a year. I think they key in this situation was they didn’t shame, stigmatize or marginalize her. Similar to a soldier with ptsd, shame, stigmatization and ostracization make matters worse.

A police officer’s job is also highly stressful. They should be getting breaks and free counseling to help prevent nervous breakdowns and burnout. And perhaps they can rotate between relatively high stress and low stress duties. Yet culture is a important to. A cop that sees a counselor shouldn’t be shameD or stigmatized for being weak. It should be seen as a normal thing. I’ve noticed that in many areas of the U.S. there is a shame and minor stigmatization for seeing a psychologist. Seeing a “life coach” is fine. Yet a lot of people think seeing a psychologist means “there is something wrong with you”, especially for men. I know a lot of people that keep it a secret.

Regarding interrogations in which police officers unskillfully tried to impose their will and get a suspect to talk. They try to badger the person and break them down. Yet a different approach is with some sociopaths and mentally ill - it would be better for a detective or psychologist with training in criminal minds to do the interrogation. A good example is the interrogation with the guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. The guy likely had some derangement, yet he also knew what was going on and was playing with the cops. The police interrogators were being being reasonable and trying to force the guy to have a reasonable conversation and the guy kept playing them. After about an hour,, the cop became frustrated and started screaming at him. I think a detective or psychologist trained In criminal minds could have had more success in playing this game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Are criminal records never ever cleared in the USA? 

Some do, yet I don’t know exactly how it works. I’ve heard after a number of years without repeat offense some get masked from employers. And I don’t know if employers have access to all crimes - like if a DUI would show up. I’ve know people with minor infractions that were able to pass employer background checks. At my institution, ever person hired has to go through a background check performed by an independent party. We don’t know how far it goes back, what they have access to or what is in the report. I think only a couple people high up in my institution see it. We are only told that the person passed the check and are now a new employee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

23 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I had a friend who was a pilot in the US coast guard. At one point, she went through a really hard breakup, which included stalking, and a bunch of childhood abuse issues came up. The coast guard “grounded” her from flying her plane. Yet not as punishment. She just wasn’t fit to fly her plane. They switched her to an office job and she got therapy. To me, it seemed like a supportive environment and she was able to fly again after a year. I think they key in this situation was they didn’t shame, stigmatize or marginalize her. Similar to a soldier with ptsd, shame, stigmatization and ostracization make matters worse.

A police officer’s job is also highly stressful. They should be getting breaks and free counseling to help prevent nervous breakdowns and burnout. And perhaps they can rotate between relatively high stress and low stress duties. Yet culture is a important to. A cop that sees a counselor shouldn’t be shameD or stigmatized for being weak. It should be seen as a normal thing. I’ve noticed that in many areas of the U.S. there is a shame and minor stigmatization for seeing a psychologist. Seeing a “life coach” is fine. Yet a lot of people think seeing a psychologist means “there is something wrong with you”, especially for men. I know a lot of people that keep it a secret.

Regarding interrogations in which police officers unskillfully tried to impose their will and get a suspect to talk. They try to badger the person and break them down. Yet a different approach is with some sociopaths and mentally ill - it would be better for a detective or psychologist with training in criminal minds to do the interrogation. A good example is the interrogation with the guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. The guy likely had some derangement, yet he also knew what was going on and was playing with the cops. The police interrogators were being being reasonable and trying to force the guy to have a reasonable conversation and the guy kept playing them. After about an hour,, the cop became frustrated and started screaming at him. I think a detective or psychologist trained In criminal minds could have had more success in playing this game.

 

But you would at least agree that a person who is having a emotional breakdown should be kept off the duty for some time or laid off if they don't get better. Or would you rather want such people to stay on the job and others paying the price for their emotional outbursts. 

Also let's understand that women are more emotional than men. So hiring women for such jobs as cops and the military is still a controversial point in my mind. 

Now I'm not about stigmatizing or marginalizing people who want to seek therapy but citizens also reserve the right to question the sanity of public servants who serve them. It's natural to feel a sense of threat or fear when you see an emotionally distraught or mentally unstable person wearing a badge. That's why a lot of the comments under the video are people asking why the woman is still a cop. They are questioning her mental fitness for the job and I think they are being valid in their assertions. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to stigmatize her. They are just common folks showing legitimate concern for their safety. 

Of course I support the idea of a supportive working environment. The person can be fired from their active duty and maybe placed in another department where being emotional won't pose a safety threat 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

Quick access to journal entries

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

But you would at least agree that a person who is having a emotional breakdown should be kept off the duty for some time or laid off if they don't get better. Or would you rather want such people to stay on the job and others paying the price for their emotional outbursts. 

I think it depends on the job and the degree of emotional breakdown. Some professions can handle emotional instability better than others. For a UFC fighter, emotional instability could actually be a good thing. It can be entertaining for fans and sell more tickets. Yet for a neurosurgeon, emotional instability is bad. We want neurosurgeons to be stable while performing surgery on people’s brains. 

I also think there is a certain amount of “keeping it together” that we all need to do to do our job. People go through breakups, divorces, have car accidents, pets die, loved ones in the hospital etc. and need to go to work. Everyone has some degree of difficulty in life we need to deal with as we continue working. While working, they need to try to set it aside the distress for a bit. Yet there are also times in which people need extra some relief time. Last week, one of my colleagues lost her husband to Covid. That is a extreme hardship. If she needs some time off to emotionally recover, she should get it. Yet if she lost her cat, she probably wouldn’t be given time off.

Policing is a particularly difficult job. It’s not like they are a car mechanic. The stakes are much higher with policing.

54 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

They are questioning her mental fitness for the job and I think they are being valid in their assertions. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to stigmatize her. They are just common folks showing legitimate concern for their safety. 

I would place “mental fitness” for a job in a separate category than emotional episodes. I write a lot of evaluation letters for pre-med students. One of the sections involves mental fitness. If a student is highly anti-social, manipulative, emotionally hyper-sensitive, prone to anger outbursts etc., they will not score well in this section. It doesn’t matter if they have a 4.0 gpa. There comes a point in which the person is not mentally fit enough to do the job well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

I think that many people who have experienced prison may possibly have had their life changed for the better because of it.

I'd much prefer listening to or maybe even employing someone who has spent years in prison and learned from the experience rather than someone who has lived an average life in a traditional conservative environment who thinks they're morally superior to criminals.

I’m not sure of the statistics, yet I’d imagine that the majority of people that go through the prison system in the U.S. come out more messed up than when they entered. My understanding is that it is generally an abusive environment that breaks people down. I think movement more toward rehabilitation, learning and growth would be a better environment. Yet then again, I haven’t had to work in a prison system with criminals. I don’t know how feasible my good intentions of rehabilitation and growth would actually work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

These things cost $$$$$$.

If we're creating value, is it not valid to just print new dollar bills of the same amount. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.

true, that's why we can't just look police reform as an isolated issue. That sounds like a disaster. 

If we want to increase training standards, I think it would also make sense to also implement serious criminal justice reform(end war on drugs), increase education spending, increase infrastructure spending, and increase spending on fighting homelessness and poverty. These policies would decrease the need for so many police officers. I think initially, there would be more upfront costs, but downstream, it actually saves money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, louhad said:

true, that's why we can't just look police reform as an isolated issue. That sounds like a disaster. 

If we want to increase training standards, I think it would also make sense to also implement serious criminal justice reform(end war on drugs), increase education spending, increase infrastructure spending, and increase spending on fighting homelessness and poverty. These policies would decrease the need for so many police officers. I think initially, there would be more upfront costs, but downstream, it actually saves money. 

That is the right course, of course. Which is why it will be vehemently opposed and denied.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.

well I'm down for re evaluating the budget. Seems like they spend a ton of money on some ridiculous stuff though like armored cars and grenade launchers. I think a total reorganization of government spending needs to take place but it will take some time for the public to get behind this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what a 3 year bachelor degree to earn a badge, no carried Guns & on going training looks like. Of course the country is much smaller. & no civilians carry Guns either. 


...But what if the opposite is true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/06/2020 at 7:40 PM, Lyubov said:

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

Agreed. I would love to see those hating on cops try to their life on the job. Jocko is correct in more training. I think anybody who says yo remove choke holds is just not very smart. I think bjj basics is a good thing. 

The activist i linked was critical of cops till he shot some civilian and got shot on training scenario's. It happens so fast. 

Yes, cops need to be trained better bit s lot of states and community need reform. Seriously. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

Violence (riots, etc) brings about more violence.  Some  look at it as just more unneeded violence, "see what all this leads to!"  Many others aren't encouraging this behavior, yet rather just accepting it as a consequence of built up frustration and injustice over many years. That injustice has caused a far greater amount of pain compared to what these protests have led to.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

If a mind focuses on one piece of the puzzle, the mind will only see that one piece of the puzzle. If the mind is attached/identified to that piece and defends that piece, it will not be able to see or understand other pieces. It will create a “my piece” vs. “not my piece” mindset.

It’s your choice wether you want to be a one-piece guy or if you want to see how pieces fit together. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/6/2020 at 5:50 AM, Preety_India said:

@Onemanwolfpac  

If the criminal is not a threat, then the cop does not have the right to kill him.

 

Would you agree he would have a right to shoot him at least?

I mean there´s gotta be some kind of repercusion of stealing police officer´s gun. 

 


A thought can´t ever tell you how you feel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Serotoninluv  I know Wisconsin is seeing a lot of new pieces and they stand out like a sore thumb.  People are fleeing the big cities and moving to rural areas where there is still some law and order.  The cities have a choice;  Get control of the issue, get help, or fall apart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

@Serotoninluv  I know Wisconsin is seeing a lot of new pieces and they stand out like a sore thumb.  People are fleeing the big cities and moving to rural areas where there is still some law and order.  The cities have a choice;  Get control of the issue, get help, or fall apart.

That’s not what I’m referring to. You are not seeing this systematically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Serotoninluv  maybe I miswrote, but I'm observing the pieces, not projecting where the pieces should go.  I am being curious as to why the increase in shootings in relation to the topic.  Is it because there are no consequences to doing the act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now