When does "seeking" end?

Unemployed · March 17, 2020

I just watched the documentary "Kings with Straw Mats" and it showed yogis and saddhus doing some of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. My question to you guys is when does the seeking end? It seems that for the advanced yogis/saddhus, non-stop meditation and fasting are not enough. They do extreme things like bury themselves for a week with no food/water, walk on sandals that have nails pointed upwards piercing the soles of their feet, do all kinds of crazy stuff to their penis, etc. Leo and other psychonauts talk about doing 100 psychedelic trips before being able to integrate the insights accurately/fully. How come these yogis don't go the 5-meo DMT route instead of mutilating themselves? I remember Leo mentioning on one of his videos that awakening requires extreme measures but when is enough enough? I know that Leo is not a proponent of the "Everybody is already enlightened / Stop seeking" attitude. If there is no limit to how much we can raise our consciousness dial then aren't we just chasing our tails? If Love/Compassion is the highest teaching then what is the purpose of continuing to raise our consciousness after we attain that realization? I really would like to hear everyone's opinion on this.

Forestluv · March 17, 2020

Any thought constructs will be circular. I would find it more insightful to contemplate "what is seeking?" and "who is the seeker?".

From a human perspective, growth is within infinity. Growth is infinite. It never ends (and never began).

In terms of seeking an illusory "it" to make "me" whole, I would say seeking energy is transformed into exploration energy. They are two different energetic orientations. A voyager who seeks to find "x" has a different orientation than a voyager who is simply exploring.

If the journey is the destination, there is no "seeking" energy. The seeking energy gets transformed toward Beingness and exploration.

Nahm · March 17, 2020

Seeking can begin & end, what is found cannot.

dvdas · March 17, 2020

Truth is not a state of consciousness. And most importantly you dont 'attain' truth.

States tend to be blissful and ecstatic so its reasonable many people fall in love with them.

adyashanti, Rupert Spira and @winterknight offer some good insights on this topic, but you can realize it yourself by doing serious surrendering. At least that helped me.

Natasha · March 17, 2020

@Unemployed Whatever reason these yogis do all this stuff they could be doing out of boredom, attention seeking, proving smth to oneself/others, etc. Inflicting pain on oneself is not a sign of higher consciousness.

**Inliytened1** · March 17, 2020

@dvdas well...you ARE Truth. But you have to become conscious that you are. And when you do it is the demise of the fantasy that was your small self. It is realized then that there never was a seeker. Because you are not a human and thus you were never born.

So seeking actually pushes you farther away. Thats why self inquiry is so effective. Because it is not seeking. It is a peeling away of what you thought you were until awakening dawns.

@Unemployed Once you are conscious that you are God you can explore yourself infinitely. There will always be uncharted grounds because reality is infinite. Consciousness - You - are Infinite.

Unemployed · March 18, 2020

Thanks, guys.

@Serotoninluv I love it. As usual you explains things so clearly and beautifully.

@dvdas I wonder about the "blissful states" yogis experience when they do extreme stuff like meditate buried in the snow for months without food and water. Or the ones who keep one arm raised for years until their fingernails grow into their skin. I've had several mind blowing mystical experiences while doing kriya and taking mushrooms but when I watch or read about these advanced yogis it makes me feel like I'm missing out on something.

@Natasha I don't know about that. I could be wrong but I really believe that if you are capable of doing the things that these yogis can do then you would have had to undergo some serious purification and minimization of the ego. Conscious suffering is just another method of raising consciousness. I doubt that the Tibetan monks who meditate in the snow with wet sheets wrapped around them are doing it to seek attention or prove something to themselves. All these different techniques must serve some sort of purpose and I kind of wish I had the courage to explore them.

LfcCharlie4 · March 18, 2020

As the others said, what these Yogis do has nothing to do with Self-Realization really, these methods may help them attain it potentially, but it's not like you have to go fast for a week and do crazy things to be classed as awakened. And, also like others have said, people love states, not just 'spiritual' people but ALL people, or there wouldn't be global Alcohol and Drug problems would there?

With seeking what happens is the focus turns from traditional means of happiness and becomes the 'search' for happiness in Enlightenment.

There IS an end to seeking and that is the realization of the nature of your own being. Normally called 'Self-Realization' for some it comes suddenly- Ramana Maharshi- for others the realization comes after working with a teacher over a more gradual time period- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille. My advice would be if there is even a slither of seeking or wanting something more, keep going in terms of finding the truth about your own being. You'll know when you have 'arrived' (shit word I know) at the End of Seeking, and are now simply abiding as The Absolute.

In terms of common 'markers' of those fully self-realized teachers things such as them saying- Only The Self/Absolute/etc Exists, No Enlightened Person, No Other, Everything is Perfect as it is among several other things.

Also, just because these Yogis can do crazy shit does not mean they are necessarily Self-Realized, of course some will be, but it's the same with Monks, just because you're a Monk/Yogi doesn't mean you instantly awaken, it's not like a driving test where once you get in the monastery you've now passed and are awake. It doesn't matter where you are or who you are, anyone can know the true nature of their own being, whether they're sitting at home in Quarantine watching Friends, or on the Himalayas 7 hours deep into meditation.

Also, you have to remember cultural influences here as well. India is a very Spiritual/ Religious culture, for example a typical Hindu path would raise a family, then move into the forest to pursue this work deeper, so where we are brought up idolizing fast cars and famous people. I imagine it's very different in India, or at least used to be pre-commercialization. Like, personally I do not want to become a Yogi/ Monk, but others on here might do

Sorry for the rant, I often do this.

But, yes Seeking does end, You can realize the truth of your own being and like others have said the Human work never ends though, until you drop this body!

dvdas · March 18, 2020

@Inliytened1 I can't agree more, though in the beginning it seems like seeking or doing, it's actually the cessation of doing and looking directly into the abyss. Terrifyingly simple.

LfcCharlie4 · March 18, 2020

@Inliytened1 Well said as always man Seeking does take us further away, but for many is also the initiation into this work, to realize that the Small I you believed yourself to be was always a huge fiction, and all along it has been The Absolute running the show and The Absolute is of course what 'You' truly are!

Just wanted to add you're not Human, but also need to embrace your unique humanity, and are completely free to do that after awakening, it's a huge paradox like most of this work. For example, there's still a personality post-awakening, you'll still have an Enneagram type etc but you KNOW the true nature of your own being and abide as that 'through' this unique expression. And, then life is simply enjoyed in every moment.

You get to abide in Non-Dual awareness 24/7 and experience our unique humanity simultaneously and it is the final joy and happiness

I've probably butchered the wording and made it sound like a 'Separate Self' exists, which is NOT what I'm saying, there is NO separate self, it is simply the Absolute/God expressing itself through this vehicle and it is the same for every living being alive, just 99.99999% are not aware they are God!

Also, I'm in self-isolation at my GFs families house for 30 days, so am free for a call anytime, I'll message you and let me know when you're free!

Patrick Lynam · March 18, 2020

are these guys just showing off?

**Inliytened1** · March 18, 2020

@dvdas ?

@LfcCharlie4 and well said yourself as always.

tedens · March 18, 2020

I wonder how much time is holding this hand up.

Unemployed · March 18, 2020

Someone once posted a list of 10 life transforming themes from Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching and #5 is "Desire Non-Desire: Remove all expectations and stop seeking to realize the mystery of life and be at peace in the present."

Leo responded with:

This is bad advice.

Do the opposite.

The rest is pretty good.

Further down the thread Leo goes on to say:

There are substantive questions to ask and understand of reality/Tao.

You can play cute Zen games, but in practice this confuses people and discourages contemplation.

Contemplation is crucial. Just sitting around is not good enough.

The nature of Tao requires contemplation and profound questioning.

After 10,000 hours of contemplation, yes, then you can just sit.

Now I know I may be misunderstanding the wisdom you guys are sharing with me but if we should no longer "seek" then what is the purpose of going away on a 30 day retreat? Is it not to "further" our awakening which is what these yogis are doing?

Nahm · March 18, 2020

@Unemployed What would the purpose be - for you?

Close that authority window, before it gets too cold.

Unemployed · March 18, 2020