Parththakkar12

Issue with David Deida's book

29 posts in this topic

The book says something along the lines that 'The masculine is unchanging presence with the ever-changing flow of the feminine. Therefore, the masculine seeks a state of completion, whereas the feminine seeks to express more energetically/chaotically/meaninglessly when in a state of peace'. It kinda rubbed me the wrong way. What it felt like was that he says that the feminine creates/stands for chaos and anarchy, and expects the masculine to be present with it and somehow restore peace, or something....?

I always have issues when people have standards of what the Divine Masculine should/shouldn't do! What do you think he means here? What am I missing?

Edited by Parththakkar12

"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I always have issues when people have standards of what the Divine Masculine should/shouldn't do!

Why is that?


“All you need is Love” - John Lennon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels like someone forcing an external standard.


"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's more energetic for me. It's a forward-moving, containing energy that's all about progress.

Teachers of Divine Masculinity always seem to portray the feminine as not really caring about the masculine, and that the masculine shouldn't really need the feminine to be on his side, and that he should always be independent and never be weak, etc.


"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

It's more energetic for me. It's a forward-moving, containing energy that's all about progress.

Teachers of Divine Masculinity always seem to portray the feminine as not really caring about the masculine, and that the masculine shouldn't really need the feminine to be on his side, and that he should always be independent and never be weak, etc.

I'm trying to think of any spiritual teachers I know that teach something like this, and I can't come up with any. Just about everyone I've come across that uses the terminology of Divine Masculine/Feminine always emphasises their interdependence and reliance on one another. To embrace masculinity you need to embrace femininity / vice versa and all that. I'm trying to be respectful here, but this honestly sounds like more of your own projection more than anything else.


“All you need is Love” - John Lennon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Parththakkar12 Maybe you're identified as masculine and you are triggered when somebody describes in a way that doesn't suit you? There is nothing wrong in being a feminine man.
I'm not a fan of Deida's book either.

Edited by tsuki

Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's another book on masculinity that I really like! It's 'King, Warrior, Magician, Lover' by Douglas Gillette.

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Maybe you're identified as masculine and you are triggered when somebody describes in a way that doesn't suit you?

Yeah! This happens even when someone describes femininity. My internal feminine aspects don't necessarily go emotionally crazy! In fact, if that reflected in a relationship, that would scare me. I'm in the process of releasing resistance to it though.


"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not nearly as rigid as it appears. I know the feeling of wanting a definite an easy interpretable answer/code to live by, but it is never that simple. It's not a should/shouldn't, it's not a morality, it is a relative truth that can be present in lots of ways, yet doesn't set any rigid boundaries.

The interpretation is exactly what people like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris do all the time and it's not easy to see why it doesn't work. I fall into this kind of trap all the time myself (it's the core of stage blue thinking). Jordan Peterson for example is doing exactly the thing you are describing here: He really believes that the feminine is equated with chaos (this is a rigid line of thinking for him, an absolute): and so he is super scared of what will happen to society, if things like gender pronouns and all these feminine inventions are allowed to exist. This is a rigid, absolute conclusion for him. A more open-minded person would be able to recognize that this stuff is pretty relative, and that women indeed have been suppressed for the longest time and that the things they are asking are pretty reasonable. It's not that rigid.

For example, to Jordan Peterson, the only way to contain the chaos of femininity is the patriarchy: the traditional family structure needs to be in place or otherwise all hell will break lose. Whereas a more modern person is more open-minded, without losing the importance of some of these truths. E.g. my girlfriend can earn way more than me and pull the household, yet I can still be the man in the relationship, be driven by purpose,etc. Relatively speaking a woman can be more emotional and chaotic, whereas the man is more rigid and grounded in purpose. When you honor this dynamic you will often see a lot of great relative improvement in your relationship, without their needing to be any rigid rules in place or absolute statements made about this tendency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@randomguy123  Keep in mind that chaos isn't necessarily a bad thing though. The only reason you exist (in the relative sense) is because your father and mother met chaotically (i.e. unplanned, unexpectedly, randomly) and the two had kids together. At no point did your father say "I will plan to meet randomguy123's mum at exactly 2.43pm on 28/05/1990 whom I will fall in love with and have kids with", he just met your mother chaotically one day and the connection that led to you was born. Chaos is one of the most fundamental principles required for the universe to function.

The problem is just that the ego-mind tends to skew towards craving order (predictability, routine, stasis, etc.) and so the idea of chaos gets demonised and shunned by a lot of people, without them realising just how much of their own existence (as well as the rest of existence) is reliant upon it.

Edited by Apparition of Jack

“All you need is Love” - John Lennon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Women and men who are more androgynous are very attractive. 

I personally believe there is both a masculine and a feminine side to both male and female. 

Without the other side, men and women will become very antagonistic towards each other with extreme polarity. 

Any author that claims absolute realities about masculinity and feminity is not a very good judge. He is looking for rigidity. 

 


INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Apparition of Jack Totally agree, people like Peterson, just straw man chaos into meaning bad, unpredictable stuff, which should be contained by the patriarchy. This is just an absolutist reading of a very relative concept.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presense=Shiva=God.. whatever the girl or the world do unto you.. you are still.. be still unshaken.. not bending or shrinking , even chaos, storms or whatso ever.. the world will say things to you like  you are a shit just be conscious be still.. that is what he said...  so work out your consciousness if you don't understand consciousness .. watch videos of Leo about presense or consciousness or God.. also consciousness = Love so.. give Love to a girl.. give your gifts to her .. have purpose and do that focus to that... even with your girl ,have some purpose why you want to talk to her or want to commit.. whatever happens stay true to your self your truth... 

Edited by John Iverson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds to me like you haven't ready the book all the way through. When I was reading it, about half way through I started to feel like the message was almost starting to sound like it was pandering to women, but I kept an open mind and completed the book. Upon completion, I understood what David was trying to convey through his lessons. Stay grounded in your purpose, and stay grounded in your masculinity. Appreciate and love women, respect your differences and learn to use your masculinity as a means of polarity and play towards the opposite spectrum, and that's how you'll keep a woman happy and feeling full. Understand the differences, but also understand that both ends are valuable and necessary. The first thing you should be doing is clearly defining your purpose, and understanding where you are on the scale of masculine to feminine, and get in touch with that authentically. Once you're anchored there, women will be more easily drawn to you more on all levels because you have no question as to who you are. These aren't rules for how you should behave, more so attributes of what it means to be masculine. Maybe your issue is that you're taking it personally, rather than reading it as a perspective. Maybe you need to spend some time looking inwards. 

Long story short, just read the book, and remain open. Trust me, there's no way any masculine man CAN'T benefit from it. Even women can benefit from the book by understanding a little more clearly what defines a man, what they should be looking for, and what they can do to accentuate their masculine counterparts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2020 at 6:48 AM, Parththakkar12 said:

The book says something along the lines that 'The masculine is unchanging presence with the ever-changing flow of the feminine. Therefore, the masculine seeks a state of completion, whereas the feminine seeks to express more energetically/chaotically/meaninglessly when in a state of peace'. It kinda rubbed me the wrong way. What it felt like was that he says that the feminine creates/stands for chaos and anarchy, and expects the masculine to be present with it and somehow restore peace, or something....?

I always have issues when people have standards of what the Divine Masculine should/shouldn't do! What do you think he means here? What am I missing?

Serious question is serious. 

Is this problem with definition of masculinity have anything to do with your masculinity or lack thereof? 

The book is profound. There's evidence of a low testosterone, soy boy, cucked out beta male. There's a war on men and masculinity today. Gillet is a example. Imagine if woman or a race was attacked? Blatant racism and sexist but its a free for all attacking men. 

ALL GILLET PRODUCTS WERE THROWN OUT. I WONT EVEE BUY AGAIN. 

 

Op, You are doing it wrong. There's behavior deemed masculine. There's a feminine response to said behavior. Women women are young and attractive, women respond accordingly to masculine behavior. 

In a era that deems masculinity as toxic, THERE'S NO BETTER TIME TO DOUBLE DOWN ON MASCULINITY. 

It bleeds into other areas of life. You can moralize and duel on semantics. Women still get banged out by hyper masculine men. Not low testosterone guy's. Not apologetic male loathing cucks. 

Do a bit of soul searching bro. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

It sounds to me like you haven't ready the book all the way through. When I was reading it, about half way through I started to feel like the message was almost starting to sound like it was pandering to women, but I kept an open mind and completed the book. Upon completion, I understood what David was trying to convey through his lessons. Stay grounded in your purpose, and stay grounded in your masculinity. Appreciate and love women, respect your differences and learn to use your masculinity as a means of polarity and play towards the opposite spectrum, and that's how you'll keep a woman happy and feeling full. Understand the differences, but also understand that both ends are valuable and necessary. The first thing you should be doing is clearly defining your purpose, and understanding where you are on the scale of masculine to feminine, and get in touch with that authentically. Once you're anchored there, women will be more easily drawn to you more on all levels because you have no question as to who you are. These aren't rules for how you should behave, more so attributes of what it means to be masculine. Maybe your issue is that you're taking it personally, rather than reading it as a perspective. Maybe you need to spend some time looking inwards. 

Long story short, just read the book, and remain open. Trust me, there's no way any masculine man CAN'T benefit from it. Even women can benefit from the book by understanding a little more clearly what defines a man, what they should be looking for, and what they can do to accentuate their masculine counterparts. 

Its profound. 

Its far from the red pill fellas. deida points out the self owner ship aspects and the limp d low testosterone guy's today who virtue signal and are ashamed of their lack of masculinity. 

Author of alpha god is a classic example. Male loathing. Peterson calls male feminists weasels. Inability to compete. Pretends to be a alliance. Cowardice at the highest level. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a clarification, Dieda is talking about masculine and feminine energies, not men and women. He explains a man can be more feminine and a woman can be more masculine. There is no inequality or value judgements taking place. 


"Started from the bottom and I just realized I'm still there since the money and the fame is an illusion" -Drake doing self-inquiry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Masculine is more active, seeking to enforce itself on the world.

Feminine is more passive, seeking to soak in the world.

Is this really so hard to understand?

Masculine wants to penetrate, feminine wants to be penetrated.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion:

David Deida's book is fucking amazing. He truly is a master of masculine and feminine polarity.

If you don't like his words, its because you have some kind of preconceived idea of how you would personally prefer masculine and feminine to be.

If you read is work carefully (many of his books I've read multiple times). You should intuit that he knows what he is talking about.

His words just ooze love. If you see it any other way then be conscious of how you are projecting some kind of personal bullshit onto the ideas in the text. Open your mind. Try harder to understand. His language is clear as day. 

David Deida is speaking of the most core and authentic desire of the masculine and feminine energy. When you read his books you are holding gold in your hands. Humble yourself.

On 30/01/2020 at 7:49 AM, Parththakkar12 said:

It feels like someone forcing an external standard.

I'd like to suggest that you are the one enforcing the standard of how you think the world "should work." The masculine and feminine think and act differently. This is the case.


I make YouTube videos about Self-Actualization: >> Check it out here <<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Just a clarification, Dieda is talking about masculine and feminine energies, not men and women. He explains a man can be more feminine and a woman can be more masculine. There is no inequality or value judgements taking place. 

He did but he prefaced The start calling out limp d low testosterone and spineless cowards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now