Trump just got impeached !

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Bno said:

@Serotoninluv I have genuine curiosity about what makes you think Putin has leverage on Trump. With the answer you give I can't say objectively whether you are right or wrong, but we can speculate on what is most likely to be true. We are both theorizing here. 

The reason I entered the conversation was a point about biased perspectives. This is about structure, not content. You are highly oriented toward content - and there is nothing wrong with that. However, when the mind is so immersed into content, it misses structure. In this case, the structure of a biased perspective. It doesn’t matter if we are talking about Trump/Putin, veganism, climate change or video games. There is a similar structure to biased perspectives. The content in a person’s life is continually changing, yet most people essentially wear the same biased lens their whole life. This realization is much deeper and profound than to what extent Trump is leveraged. This realization allows for transition into Yellow.

You seem highly motivated to engage in content, which is fine. Yet when we engaged in content, it became a polarized opposition of two sets of content. Look how the conversation evolved when I spoke of criminal minds. . . .Notice the above frame: there is a “me” and “you” as well as “objectively right or wrong”. This is a classic Orange level framework. It is highly binary and dualistic. There is nothing wrong with it. To me, it’s very restrictive and unsatisfying. . . . Imagine I told you the structure of our conversation would be that all words must be under three syllables, the letter “p, m , k” cannot be used, every fifth word must rhyme with bagel and every third sentence must have the word “shark” in it. For some, this framework might be a fun challenging game. Yet for me, it’s a silly framework and it’s just not worth trying to have a conversation within that framework. It’s too restrictive. However, if one tries to reveal the absurdity of the structure, those immersed in the game will say “He is just trying to avoid the question. He doesn’t know ay words that rhyme with bagel”. They cannot see the structure.

In reference to the content here, a half step into transcending it would be too look beyond binary constructs. Asking “Is Trump leveraged by Putin/Russia” is a binary 100% vs 0% framework. Trump is either 100% leveraged or 0% leveraged. This is a highly simplistic blue level framework. An Orange level framework can bring in degrees within a spectrum. We could now ask “To what extent is Trump leveraged by Putin/Russia?”. A mind contracted into a binary frame will resist this new fame. Yet it’s important to liberate from a strict 0% vs 100%. Moving off of that is a major expansion, even if we say “Trump is 0.1% leveraged by Putin/Russia”, it is a major expansion. And the underlying question of Trump leverage is irrelevant. This gets at the original question of biased perspectives. 

It will not help if I present “my view” on leverage. This is within the hyper binary constricted frame of “my view” and “your view” and which view is right or wrong. Within this framework, it’s much better to realize it internally. An internal realization transcends the “my view” vs “your view” framework. One way to do this is to view within degrees. For example, Bernie and Trump have had very different relationships with Putin/Russia over there lifetimes. I would say that neither of them are 100% compromised by Putin/Russia, yet one of them is more compromised than the other. This contrast can allow space for one to explore the nuances of these differences - and most importantly it expands beyond a simple 0% vs 100% binary construct. 

[Bno]

2 hours ago, Bno said:

We can't say for sure who is objectively right, but one can say which is most likely to be true.

@Serotoninluv The point I was trying to make about impeachment objectively hurting the Democrats and helping Trump is completely different from Trump-Russia speculation. The quote I am citing above refers to Trump-Russia speculation. Trump impeachment being counterproductive for Democrats is another issue.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Bno

[Forestluv]

@Bno Gotcha. Thank you ? 

[skywords]

And, of course, all this is just a projection of our own "shadow selves."

Instead of "shadow selves," I would say, frozen images of our condemned selves.

These, in turn, are just what others have taught us to condemn in both our selves and others.

That is to say, we lack warmth for ourselves, when we parrot the condemnations we've experienced as leveled both against us, and against others.

Unless we have warm empathy for all others, we cannot have warm empathy for ourselves.

When we dismiss this, we are actually dismissing our own wholeness as fully warm, fully graceful, fully in the Now.

But that's deserving of empathy, as well, in my Universe, too.

Generally speaking.

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Bno said:

How can we invest and how can we work on Self-Actualization in this way?

Too much ego / survival and not enough consciousness.  Thats where our society is today.  Mostly Orange.  It's going to be a long time until our society evolves beyond orange as a whole and into higher stages of consciousness.   But ultimately it will happen.  As for some tangible things we can do now - ideally if we could awaken more people (or at least open them up to the idea) the collective will slowly shift from orange to green to yellow (and actually to awaken is to become a mystic so there is a foot in turquoise.)  As to how to do that I don't know - most people are close minded to spirituality and cling to their own identity and the materialist paradigm.  And at orange they are still not at the stage where they think of the collective good. 

Obviously this isn't going to happen over night.  What are some more practical steps we could take to increase the consciousness of the collective in your opinion?  

[Bno]

@Inliytened1 The internet has helped spread more spiritual teachings. It is what led many of us to Actualized.org. With all the censorship and demonitizations happening on youtube as a result of neoliberal policies and Democratic and Republican politicians working against net neutrality, reaching more minds will become more difficult if our system continues down this pattern of center right - far right - center right - far right administrations.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Bno

[whoareyou]

 

5 hours ago, Bno said:

@Serotoninluv I have genuine curiosity about what makes you think Putin has leverage on Trump. With the answer you give I can't say objectively whether you are right or wrong, but we can speculate on what is most likely to be true. We are both theorizing here. 

My theory is based on evidence of Trump acting out against Putin's interests.

Your theory is based on how the criminal mind works (but you have yet to explain what makes you think Putin has leverage on Trump).

We can't say for sure who is objectively right, but one can say which is most likely to be true.

But this is besides the point I try to make on these forums. My point about Russia and Trump speculations is that it doesn't work in hurting Trump because...

1) people like myself see more evidence that goes against this notion that he's been infiltrated than evidence that is for this notion, 

2) as it currently stands, it isn't affecting anyone's lives directly, and

3) we've seen his approval ratings go up immediately post-Mueller Report and even before that when the MSM wouldn't stop talking about it.

Originally why I began talking about this issue on here was to let @Leo Gura know that he was unconsciously helping Trump by repeating misinformation he heard about collusion and Russian election interference. If we want to fix the problems of this country we need to realize that Trump is not the problem and US corruption did not start on Jan 2017 nor did it get exponentially worse. What Trump is is a symptom of a much larger systemic problem that needs to be focused on more than these distractions like Russiagate, which is entirely ineffective at solving the root problems. 

Focusing on Russigate over the actual systemic issues is unconscious politics.

100% agreed.Like I said before,  @Leo Gura has a very strong left-wing bias (major blindspot actually), which is one of the reasons why he falls for the mainstream narratives. It's part of his constructed identity (how much of an ownership of that perspective he takes) as @Serotoninluv explained above.

Edited December 23, 2019 by whoareyou

[Bno]

@whoareyou Leo definitely needs to address when he was wrong and acknowledge his current blindspot or else he's going to lose credibility among his followers.

[Spiral Wizard]

Well that escalated quickly . . .

[Alyosha]

I made a point to vote against trump in the 2016 election, but in hindsight everything against trump was based on things he said while everything against hilary was based on her actions, aka corrupt maneuvering of top secret information which got a man killed. 

Trump is a monkey who deserves to be impeached, but from my point of view he really seems to lack the venom and long term corruption that former empire families in the usa have had (the bushes, the clintons). hes so simple minded that all of his moves are on display, while former presidents have been more clever in disguising their true selves. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Alyosha

[Apparition of Jack]

@Alyosha Trump has had way more long-term corruption than families like the Bushes or Clintons, it’s just that prior to his political run, they didn’t matter in terms of the national interest, so most people didn’t care about them. Now that he’s POTUS though all of his corrupt behavioural patterns (and his lack of finesse in hiding them as you point out) are coming back to bite him in the ass.

[Alyosha]

12 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Alyosha Trump has had way more long-term corruption than families like the Bushes or Clintons, it’s just that prior to his political run, they didn’t matter in terms of the national interest, so most people didn’t care about them. Now that he’s POTUS though all of his corrupt behavioural patterns (and his lack of finesse in hiding them as you point out) are coming back to bite him in the ass.

My intuition tells me hilary would have done more shady shit than trump's wreckless ass. As Leo stated, trump is a fake dictator and a coward whose ego is too fragile to commit true war crimes. I feel a bit safer in that regard. It just seems like the trump hate is rooted mostly in his image. But hey, I'm not the most knowledgeable on politics. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Alyosha

[Bno]

9 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Alyosha Trump has had way more long-term corruption than families like the Bushes or Clintons

Oof! There is so much you don't know. It's on purpose, though, that many of us don't know, but many of us are starting to wake up. And they all participated in each other's corruption.

I reccomend looking up all the evils the Clintons did all around the world and the dealings they've done with the Clinton Foundation to f over countries like Honduras, Lybia, Haiti, and madoctrine. Look up the Clinton Foundations shady dealings with Russia and how they sold them Uranium. As well as the corporate ties many of the Clinton administration have with these foreign powers.

The Bush's corruption trace back to the grandfather of W and the father of HW, who held a high position for a bank and played a key role in instigating WWII. HW was the head of the CIA when the US spread Chicago School economics through torturous shock therapy in places like Chile, Indonesia, Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay to force governments to abandon socialist practices that were benefiting the people to install coups and dictatorships that led to the death of millions. HW was also the head of the CIA when JFK died. Look up all the lies they spread about fossil fuels as their scientists in in these industries knew the damages. Not to mention the key role W played in lying us into Afghanistan and Iraq.

The Clinton and Bush corruptions led to the death and suffering of millions. Trump's corruption was merely petty finance corruption by comparison. Although now Trump is participating in the genocide in Yemen and continuing to bomb Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Lybia, wars that were started by Bush and Obama, more people suffered and died under the Clinton-Bush doctrine and we're still living in it!

All these actions were for corporate interest by spreading neoliberalism around the world by force. And this goes without mentioning the ties the Clintons have with Jeffrey Epstein and the Child sex trade and a recent statistical study that came out that concluded it's absolutely impossible for so many people tied to one person (Hillary Clinton) to have died through accidents or suicides.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Bno

[Bno]

@Alyosha If we look at historical evidence, your intuition is pretty accurate in this case. What you said is spot on.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Bno Trump is more corrupt than the Bushs and Clintons.

[Bno]

@Apparition of Jack *Facepalm* lol. Considering everything I just told you, what makes you say that? 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Bno Trump is a conman. He lies and cheats and steals to get his way with no regard for consequences. He'll try to woo you, but only so he can rob your expensive cutlery and screw your wife behind your back. If you call him out on this, he'll throw a tantrum and try to smear your name in the eyes of the world.

The Clintons and Bushs are career politicians. They know how to play dirty and have made poor decisions with their power, but they still have a sense of empathy/integrity/foresight that guides their actions. They'll try to woo you, but this time it's just for your vote, and if you disagree with them they'll respect your decision and move on.

Both are corrupt, but the degrees of corruption are on two different levels. The Clintons and Bushs aren't popular because they represent the decaying US establishment, but in a choice between the US establishment and a conman like Trump, the establishment is still more level-headed/reasonable/conscious.

[Alyosha]

5 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Bno Trump is a conman. He lies and cheats and steals to get his way with no regard for consequences. He'll try to woo you, but only so he can rob your expensive cutlery and screw your wife behind your back. If you call him out on this, he'll throw a tantrum and try to smear your name in the eyes of the world.

The Clintons and Bushs are career politicians. They know how to play dirty and have made poor decisions with their power, but they still have a sense of empathy/integrity/foresight that guides their actions. They'll try to woo you, but this time it's just for your vote, and if you disagree with them they'll respect your decision and move on.

Both are corrupt, but the degrees of corruption are on two different levels. The Clintons and Bushs aren't popular because they represent the decaying US establishment, but in a choice between the US establishment and a conman like Trump, the establishment is still more level-headed/reasonable/conscious.

Hilary had a man killed due to her wreckless misuse of top secret information and bill has been to Epsteins pedophile island multiple times. George W committed terrible war crimes in the name of stopping weapons of mass destruction which was a cover for oil and resources. I've yet to see trump commit crimes on this level. 

 

To me, comparing trump and Clinton's/Bush's is like comparing a dirty used car salesman to corrupt wallstreet bankers. One is more despicable on the surface, but the crimes of the latter run much deeper. 

[Bno]

@Apparition of Jack I think I understand your interpretation of "corruption." It seems to me like you're looking at the image of character. However, we have to look at actions as well. Someone might appear to be a well meaning person on the surface, but their actions, sometimes hidden, show the ugliness of who they are and the dangerous acts they can commit while successfully passing off as benign and your friend.

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Bno Trump is a conman. He lies and cheats and steals to get his way with no regard for consequences. He'll try to woo you, but only so he can rob your expensive cutlery and screw your wife behind your back. If you call him out on this, he'll throw a tantrum and try to smear your name in the eyes of the world.

In other words, petty financial corruption. How many of those ended with the death and suffering of millions on a global scale?

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

The Clintons and Bushs are career politicians. They know how to play dirty and have made poor decisions with their power, but they still have a sense of empathy/integrity/foresight that guides their actions. They'll try to woo you, but this time it's just for your vote, and if you disagree with them they'll respect your decision and move on.

They know how to play dirty while having empathy/integrity/foresight at the same time? In other words, they know how to undermine democracy, screw over countries, killing millions while feeling sorry for them and being polite about it? 

Just as an example, Lybia became a slave trade country, so many people were enslaved, after the Obama administration intervened and killed Gaddafi. Hillary really showed empathy when she said "we came, we saw, he died!" 

Let's also not forget Hilary and other corporate Democrats voter shaming people for supporting Bernie or Trump over her. I wouldn't say they respect disagreements. And then they blame Bernie and Green Party supporters for her loss. They voter shamed after the fact that they colluded to cheat Bernie Sanders in the primaries! Lol

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Both are corrupt, but the degrees of corruption are on two different levels. The Clintons and Bushs aren't popular because they represent the decaying US establishment, but in a choice between the US establishment and a conman like Trump, the establishment is still more level-headed/reasonable/conscious.

In a choice between a manchild who participated in petty financial corruption and can be easily seen through and corrupt politicians who've killed millions while our country falls asleep, I think the decision of who's more dangerous shouldn't require much conscious analysis if we look past personal character.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Bno

[Alyosha]

I'm honestly appalled at the amount of passes posters are granting to the former war criminals who ran the usa. 

You're all so stuck on image that you refuse to actually see the actions.