moon777light

how to survive when theres no survival drive in no-self state?

44 posts in this topic

I assume someone already asked this but i cant find it through the search box (which usually doesnt work well with searches)

In a perspective of no-self, you have no self to sustain so no drive for survival. How does one survive when you have no drive for survival? 

I remember reading that a certain Samadhi state exists where the person is in total non duality (basically they're enlightened) but can still live without going into mahasamadhi. In Ralston's book he says "strange as it may sound, "being" and life can take place without a self or the need to survive". 

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A permanent state of pure being is death.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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@moon777light You die. Make no mistake, Pantheism will lead to your death. "He who hears not me but the Logos will say: All is one." - Heraclitus.
If anything comes after, if some identity survives I don't know. Tread carefully and carry a big stick?

The Book of Not Knowing is very similar from what I remember listening to from Spinoza's "The Ethics."

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

A permanent state of pure being is death.

 

Yes! I would say that. Of course I reserve to be in error for now and change. Very wary…..
 

 


Of Interest: Aristotle(Teleology), Carl Jung, Christopher Langan(Holo-pantheism),  William James (Pragmatism).

Evil "Caesar's Wife must be above suspicion".: Plato (Ideal forms), John Stuart Mill (Anti-teleos Utilitarianism), Leibniz (Trinitarianism), Spinoza(Pantheism) Buddhism(Paradox), Jainism?(Hysteria), Nietzsche (Perspectivism) William James (Pragmatism). 

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Posted (edited)

There is a difference between no-ego and no-self.

No-ego means enlightenment (ego-death). It's like becoming a baby, instinct leads the way. Full authenticity mode. It works very well for survival. It can be permanent.

No-self means actual death. It's a dangerous state. If you ever happened to glimpse it, you wouldn't even care about survival, and you wouldn't mind dying. You would have the strength to absorb the pain of the whole world and you without even breaking a sweat. It's pure bliss. Luckily, it's a temporary state, and you will go back to normal after a little while, unless you decide not to.

Edited by Truth Addict

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So you dont in your perspective? Why are their enlightened masters claiming you can? 

 

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@moon777light Complete no drive to survive only happens in temporary states like psychedelic breakthroughs, high concentration samadhi states. With no-self realisation, there is still a drive to survive.


"Enlightenment is not about making this character better by altering your consciousness or like having superpowers or strength but to exit the game completely in a total cessation of consciousness" 

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after enlightenment, no survival but creation!

for example, a common person would need sex for both his survival and excitement but enlightened person would perform sex for the sake of excitement and not survival at all!   

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Posted (edited)

@hamedsf yes from the vantage point that the fear of death is gone. Still have to eat in human form.  And even then as the ego the fear of death may linger even if you are conscious there is nothing to fear anymore because you are God.

@moon777light those are temporary states as @Enlightenment stated.  A permanent state of non-duality there is no you.  

Edited by Inliytened1

We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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1 hour ago, moon777light said:

I assume someone already asked this but i cant find it through the search box (which usually doesnt work well with searches)

In a perspective of no-self, you have no self to sustain so no drive for survival. How does one survive when you have no drive for survival? 

I remember reading that a certain Samadhi state exists where the person is in total non duality (basically they're enlightened) but can still live without going into mahasamadhi. In Ralston's book he says "strange as it may sound, "being" and life can take place without a self or the need to survive". 

No self isn’t a perspective, it’s reality. “Survival” is a perspective. Nonduality & mahasamadhi are not states, nor ‘reality’. “States” is a perspective. 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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@Nahm indeed :x 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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No-self is not the ultimate state, God-self is. All is the One indivisible God. Survival is a fact. You are Immortal and will exist forever. You will survive forever, you cannot die. So better get used to it. 

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Posted (edited)

@Jkris

Ego is the illusion, or basically any kind of lie. i.e. mistaking the map for the territory, attaching meaning to things, etc...

No-self means emptiness, void, blank awareness that has no qualities or desires whatsoever. It's what's referred to as waking up from the dream.

Edited by Truth Addict

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@Truth Addict But enlightened say clearly no-self is enlightenment and is permanant.🤔

Not still sure what you mean ego though 🤔

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Jkris said:

But enlightened say clearly no-self is enlightenment and is permanant.🤔

enlightenment is permanent, it is the detachment from human consciousness into god consciousness

9 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Not still sure what you mean ego though 🤔

the human consciousness itself lol, 

once you enter god consciousness, when you look at things, you look at it as part of your self. It is not other  it is you 

but to understand what i mean you have to have both an enlightenment experience and omniscient experience, to create a comparison and correct distinction between what is human conscious and what is god conscious  

edit: the ego wants to manipulate for its own humanitarian 

the god consciousness wants to explore itself and love every aspect of itself. 

Given that you can be satisfied with everything in god consciousness, you'll find there's nothing more you can do expect 

a) go deeper

b) love at your current level of god realisation

still both options are fine, just depends on your age in my opinion. 

Edited by Aakash

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Posted (edited)

@Jkris

I only speak what I know.

Don't get tricked by the terms though. Everyone has their own dictionary. Call no-self whatever you want, it doesn't compare to the actual thing.

You want the actual thing, not the theory.

Ego as a simple example is you thinking that your thoughts are true. In the sense that they could replace reality. Like imagining that milk is black and actually believe it.

Another term for ego is inauthenticity. It's letting imagination (part) take control over reality (whole).

And no, you can't be in a permanent state of no desire for food and still be alive, unless you inject something into your blood, but then you actually are desiring to live which defeats the original position of no desire.

Edited by Truth Addict

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Posted (edited)

You're both a self and a no-self.  You wanna sort of accept that paradox and work both ends of it.  Actually, in truth, you're neither; you're God, but that paradox is one mental framework that we can put over Being that is less likely to lock you of thinking of yourself as one side of the paradox to the exclusion of the other.  That's a trap that a lot of people do is they define themselves with mental categories instead of using mental categories to explore themselves.  The Paradox of Ego and No Ego is not a truth, it's a tool to keep you open to exploring yourself because you're not clinging to being an Ego or a No-Ego.  God is not limited by the Mind's categories.  God demotes the Mind from Colonel to Corporal.  The Mind and its concepts/beliefs are a hand-maiden to God not the other way around.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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