moon777light

how to survive when theres no survival drive in no-self state?

44 posts in this topic

@Aakash @Aakash 

To put it simple if identity I AM vanishes what remains is the Absolute.

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For now not getting in to concepts of I am God,love,creation,omniscience,purpose of creation,if conciousness is interested in exploring itself,love every aspect of itself.

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So the method-path to get rid of the identity is the key from a seekers point of view.

That is what I am focussing now.

@Truth Addict

Agree you speak from your experience.

Osho explains what you said.He splits I AM into I and Amness.

I vanishes first.Lot get struck there.Then the Amness too has to go.

Meaning no-self is the goal.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Nahm said:

No self isn’t a perspective, it’s reality. “Survival” is a perspective. Nonduality & mahasamadhi are not states, nor ‘reality’. “States” is a perspective. 

you said no self is reality but nonduality/mahasamadhi arent. Is that because they are names for a particular idea whereas no self is just the absence of the viel self gives to everything it sees?

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@moon777light How does a tree survive?

im not sure, but differently than i do

 

8 hours ago, Conrad said:

No-self is not the ultimate state, God-self is. All is the One indivisible God. Survival is a fact. You are Immortal and will exist forever. You will survive forever, you cannot die. So better get used to it. 

No self does not equal god self? i thought they were the same

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@Jkris

Actually, that is a great and precise explanation.

Ego is the fake identity, which when completely dissolves, all suffering ends. That's the beginning of the enlightenment spectrum so to speak. It starts with the end of suffering, and ends with infinite levels of bliss.

On the other hand, complete permanent no-self is impossible while being alive. The less one becomes attached to survival, the more happy they become. The less one tries to manipulate and control things, the more blissful they become. But there has to be a limit for that, because otherwise it will inevitably lead to physical death.

Physical death is 100% God consciousness and bliss, while maintaining a 99% God consciousness in my opinion is the permanent no-self that enlightened people talk about.

And actually, death is the ultimate goal of life, both metaphorically (conceptual) and literally (physical).

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5 hours ago, moon777light said:
18 hours ago, Nahm said:

No self isn’t a perspective, it’s reality. “Survival” is a perspective. Nonduality & mahasamadhi are not states, nor ‘reality’. “States” is a perspective. 

you said no self is reality but nonduality/mahasamadhi arent. Is that because they are names for a particular idea whereas no self is just the absence of the viel self gives to everything it sees?

@moon777light  See this Bill Nye style...Light a match or a lighter next to a wall. Look at the wall, and tell me what’s missing.

Now look at your hand - what’s missing?

Then, contemplate... who is contemplating? What then, is, “contemplation”?

(If this sounds ridiculous, go through all of the siddhis, until samadhi, and discard them all in non-attachment, non-identification)

I’d recommend the four noble truths, and the eightfold path. 

5 or so miles into a run, notice the true effortlessness, notice there’s no you doing  a damn thing, was always the case. 

Sing, Alone, no one is there. 

Lose the self in the one pointed  concentration of playing an instrument. 

Many more of course, every way is no way. 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Nonduality & mahasamadhi are not states

interesting, in all my spiritual life , i've never heard the term mahasamadhi, which yogi came up with this? 

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, moon777light said:

So you dont in your perspective? Why are their enlightened masters claiming you can? 

 

There is a difference between no-self and no Ego.

Hinduism has Atman Brahman. (Self/soul). At least some sects of Buddhism do not; NO Atman, NO self- No soul. It is possible they can both be correct, in terms of direction.

So to have no Ego, would be something like from...

Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Edited by RichardY

Of Interest: Aristotle(Teleology), Carl Jung, Christopher Langan(Holo-pantheism),  William James (Pragmatism).

Evil "Caesar's Wife must be above suspicion".: Plato (Ideal forms), John Stuart Mill (Anti-teleos Utilitarianism), Leibniz (Trinitarianism), Spinoza(Pantheism) Buddhism(Paradox), Jainism?(Hysteria), Nietzsche (Perspectivism) William James (Pragmatism). 

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The no-self state is not eternal and permanent. Of course if you are in a long meditation marathon for days a family, a friend, will knock on your door, or  phone alarm will ring, and you will come back to your dual-ego state.

Ive heard a legend of a guru who meditated for months in a cave, he lost the ego, melted in the universe and nobody interrupted him, so he stop eating and drinking, and people found him mummified.

Dying of dehidration produces very painful headaches so this guru should be very advanced to the point that his nondual state wasnt interrupted by high body pain.

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@Moreira
I disagree. No-self, does not equal no-ego.

No-self is permanent death, "the 2nd death", eternal does not come into it, although it may feel that way. 

To become absorbed into God, and be no more.


Of Interest: Aristotle(Teleology), Carl Jung, Christopher Langan(Holo-pantheism),  William James (Pragmatism).

Evil "Caesar's Wife must be above suspicion".: Plato (Ideal forms), John Stuart Mill (Anti-teleos Utilitarianism), Leibniz (Trinitarianism), Spinoza(Pantheism) Buddhism(Paradox), Jainism?(Hysteria), Nietzsche (Perspectivism) William James (Pragmatism). 

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21 hours ago, moon777light said:

In a perspective of no-self, you have no self to sustain so no drive for survival. How does one survive when you have no drive for survival? 

Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water...

After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.

:)


The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Morpheus (The Matrix)

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9 hours ago, RichardY said:

@Moreira
I disagree. No-self, does not equal no-ego.

No-self is permanent death, "the 2nd death", eternal does not come into it, although it may feel that way. 

To become absorbed into God, and be no more.

death is not permanent until the physical body dies. You can have a no-self experience on a medi-retreat or psychedellic experience that simulates ego-death and body death, for a short period of time.

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You are going to food your body and find refuge for the absolute compassion of your being. Don't worry about this things. Live your life. 9_9

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Moreira said:

death is not permanent until the physical body dies. You can have a no-self experience on a medi-retreat or psychedellic experience that simulates ego-death and body death, for a short period of time.


Well I suppose if you say so. No self, permanent lights out.

You aren't equating no-self to no-ego are you? Because I consider them to be very different things. juxtaposed.

But how would that explain things like astral projection?

Edited by RichardY

Of Interest: Aristotle(Teleology), Carl Jung, Christopher Langan(Holo-pantheism),  William James (Pragmatism).

Evil "Caesar's Wife must be above suspicion".: Plato (Ideal forms), John Stuart Mill (Anti-teleos Utilitarianism), Leibniz (Trinitarianism), Spinoza(Pantheism) Buddhism(Paradox), Jainism?(Hysteria), Nietzsche (Perspectivism) William James (Pragmatism). 

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On 12/07/2019 at 10:28 AM, moon777light said:

 

No self does not equal god self? i thought they were the same

No. 

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@moon777light  Another thing I noticed is that when there's no self or people find enlightenment everything just flows naturally with nature.

So, it should be natural to survive, so we naturally tend to survive. When there's no drive to survive, probably is just an ego trick. Let it go.

Because there's no one to survive in fact, but the ego in that way continues perpetuating saying "I have no drive to survive". Where is this "I"???

There's no I, just reality and reality is about survival too of the form. That's why Jesus said "The Body is the Temple of God".


The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Morpheus (The Matrix)

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On 7/12/2019 at 3:19 PM, Nahm said:

I’d recommend the four noble truths, and the eightfold path.

thanks i'll look into it. Im actaully on a part in ralston's book toward the end  about 6 principles to live by (like radical honesty, giving up value, etc) and it sounds really similar to what ive seen on google images of the eightfold path ha

On 7/12/2019 at 3:19 PM, Nahm said:

5 or so miles into a run, notice the true effortlessness, notice there’s no you doing  a damn thing, was always the case. 

Sing, Alone, no one is there. 

Lose the self in the one pointed  concentration of playing an instrument. 

ive had this with drawing a long time ago, but my mind nowadays is so preoccupied with thoughts that even zoning out in art is a rarity

On 7/12/2019 at 3:19 PM, Nahm said:

See this Bill Nye style...Light a match or a lighter next to a wall. Look at the wall, and tell me what’s missing.

Now look at your hand - what’s missing?

Then, contemplate... who is contemplating? What then, is, “contemplation”?

 

the color, and 3Dness would be missing. Idk about my hand im looking at it, contemplation im slowly getting to

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

@moon777light  Another thing I noticed is that when there's no self or people find enlightenment everything just flows naturally with nature.

So, it should be natural to survive, so we naturally tend to survive. When there's no drive to survive, probably is just an ego trick. Let it go.

Because there's no one to survive in fact, but the ego in that way continues perpetuating saying "I have no drive to survive". Where is this "I"???

There's no I, just reality and reality is about survival too of the form. That's why Jesus said "The Body is the Temple of God".

yea thats what i starting thinking when trying to get an answer. Maybe im picking too much into details that just take care of themselves.

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