Empty

There is no Love in the Quran; My response to Leo saying Muhammad was enlightened!!

21 posts in this topic

Hi 

 

Please note I am not trying to be negative in this thread! 

 

Although I am grateful that I have come across actualized.org, I sometimes wish I stayed in my old unconscious stupid self, because I realized a lot of sad truths. In a Muslim,  a childhood is basically a series of traumas. This is because of Islamic upbringing. A child is beaten in a Mosque m, at home, in the streets, and everywhere because " beating" is considered the right way to bring up your child.

I have a lot of claims I am gonna make:

1) The Quran which is a book full of hate affects the Moroccan Muslim personality.

2) There is no Love in the Quran. 

3) There is no Love of life, nature, and the world in  any Muslim culture.

4) Being raised under an uneducated Muslim familly is basically like forming an angry, bitter, introverted human. 

5) People in Muslim countries have a Red spiral dynamic mentality; Sunna vs Shia. Muslims vs kuffars..., etc.

6) Muslim leader use Islam to enslave their own people. .......

7) Muhammad certainally had nothing to do with Love.

8) finally, my country would evolve a lot, had we eliminated this religion from our way of life.

 

I don't want to write a lot, but here I am ; )

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Love is a complex thing. You don't understand what Love is yet.

At stage Red that's how love looks.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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A lot of Christians used the Bible for hate justification. You got to be really careful about how you interpret the words. 

Stage red isn't going to interpret it the same way as higher stages. 

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As an ex-Muslim who very much agrees with your number 8, I still recognize that doesn't change the fact that Islam, and a whopping 1.5 billion Muslims, are here. My question to myself often is, do I want to continue to seeth in the feeling that I'm totally right in like a hundred ways that yeah, Islam is very negative! Or do I want to fill my life with other things as much as possible?

Love, color, vibrancy, these are all things I was missing while I was in the Muslim community. These are the things I revel in nowadays. Art, free expression, pure color and music. I don't know how enlightened it is to enjoy aesthetics, but I feel there's real spiritual meaning to enjoying the expanded palette of secular life. There's a lot of stark blacks and whites in the Islamic aesthetic scheme, my experiences with it were often pretty grim on a sensory level. So I feel like I wanna drape myself in velvet just because I can. If I remember right, some Muslims believe music in general is haram. Music is like the most pure art form in the world.

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You can interpret the Quran however you want it, but the truth is that Muhammad was a conqueror and a warrior, he wasnt a saint, you can still get inspired by the Quran though. 

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Don't make it like a big deal . You know it is not the case in most  Islamic Arab countries.  I am am Muslim myself from Jordan and In most cases nobody is rasied like you said. 

Quran doesn't talk a lot about love. But it does talk a lot about God. Remembering God, worshipping God, describing God . QURAN has its own way of delivering value. Love is recognized by you the seeker not by Quran telling you about love. 

Quran is magnificent and it has a lot of value. Don't mistake it for sheiks bullshit

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Love is a complex thing. You don't understand what Love is yet.

At stage Red that's how love looks.

Spiral dynamics is scientific model, its based on research and observation. Why should it be taken more seriously than any other science? It's in "materilistic" paradigm and science. I guess the science that fits for your worldview is reliable 

Edited by Richard Alpert

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1 hour ago, Richard Alpert said:

Spiral dynamics is scientific model, its based on research and observation. Why should it be taken more seriously than any other science? It's in "materilistic" paradigm and science. I guess the science that fits for your worldview is reliable 

Some models are more useful for understanding human behavior than others

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18 hours ago, Empty said:

Hi 

 

Please note I am not trying to be negative in this thread! 

 

Although I am grateful that I have come across actualized.org, I sometimes wish I stayed in my old unconscious stupid self, because I realized a lot of sad truths. In a Muslim,  a childhood is basically a series of traumas. This is because of Islamic upbringing. A child is beaten in a Mosque m, at home, in the streets, and everywhere because " beating" is considered the right way to bring up your child.

I have a lot of claims I am gonna make:

1) The Quran which is a book full of hate affects the Moroccan Muslim personality.

2) There is no Love in the Quran. 

3) There is no Love of life, nature, and the world in  any Muslim culture.

4) Being raised under an uneducated Muslim familly is basically like forming an angry, bitter, introverted human. 

5) People in Muslim countries have a Red spiral dynamic mentality; Sunna vs Shia. Muslims vs kuffars..., etc.

6) Muslim leader use Islam to enslave their own people. .......

7) Muhammad certainally had nothing to do with Love.

8) finally, my country would evolve a lot, had we eliminated this religion from our way of life.

 

I don't want to write a lot, but here I am ; )

You just basically summarized my entire view of islam, it's not optimal but that's what we gotta work with and even if we weren't born in a rigid muslim society we'd just have a different set of dysfunctions. 

Life evolves at its own pace, nothing we can do about it other than not letting it bother us too much and focusing on ourselves and what's good for us

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2 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

Spiral dynamics is scientific model, its based on research and observation. Why should it be taken more seriously than any other science? It's in "materilistic" paradigm and science. I guess the science that fits for your worldview is reliable 

Do not confuse absolute and relative matters.

The context of this thread is a relative one about human societies, religion, etc. Within such a context, social science and developmental psychology (like Spiral Dynamics) is applicable and useful.

The materialistic paradigm is a totally different context. The context there is the ultimate nature of reality, in which case it is incorrect. But the materialistic paradigm is great if you want to land a rover on Mars.

Science isn't all wrong. It's just limited to certain contexts and it cannot address the ultimate metaphysical questions.

Of course there is good science and bad science. Science which contradicts nonduality is bad science. Although even it can be useful in certain narrow situations like building a new iPhone.

Who decide which science is good and which is bad? You do, of course! You are the ultimate arbiter of truth. Since you are God and you are imagining this whole game. Whatever you say is true and good will be true and good from your POV.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Empty Leo is just stating a belief.No body knows if mohammed was enlightened or some other x was enlightened.All are just beliefs - A marketting strategy employed by the philosophers to attract people and turn them towards the real spirituality.

Say if you tell people Self Realisation was originated in India several thousands of years before Islam,Muslim or jainism,buddism etc people who are following one religion or another will not even be bother to hear what Non duality says.

So instead say Mohammed was enlightened,Jesus was enlightened.

Because of the conditioning of revering mohammed,buddha,christ,krishna what ever people will get attracted.

Does it matter if mohammed was enliggtened or krishna was enlightened.

People dont question the dead or they love to accept the dead than the living enlightened saying I am Conciousness,I am God,I am Tao - you to can realize truth.

It is an useful lie marketing strategy typically philosophers employ For true love on humanity.

But the danger problem with this approach is as long as the follower keep listening to the philosopher saying that and under his guidance its ok.But on the contrary if he takes that just an input from some other source confirming his muslim identity and if he takes the words of a book as absolute truth then it makes him worse.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Some models are more useful for understanding human behavior than others

And who decides what defines more useful?

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9 hours ago, Jkris said:

@Empty Leo is just stating a belief.No body knows if mohammed was enlightened or some other x was enlightened.All are just beliefs - A marketting strategy employed by the philosophers to attract people and turn them towards the real spirituality.

Say if you tell people Self Realisation was originated in India several thousands of years before Islam,Muslim or jainism,buddism etc people who are following one religion or another will not even be bother to hear what Non duality says.

So instead say Mohammed was enlightened,Jesus was enlightened.

Because of the conditioning of revering mohammed,buddha,christ,krishna what ever people will get attracted.

Does it matter if mohammed was enliggtened or krishna was enlightened.

People dont question the dead or they love to accept the dead than the living enlightened saying I am Conciousness,I am God,I am Tao - you to can realize truth.

It is an useful lie marketing strategy typically philosophers employ For true love on humanity.

I like this and I so much agree with it.

9 hours ago, Jkris said:

@Empty 

But the danger problem with this approach is as long as the follower keep listening to the philosopher saying that and under his guidance its ok.But on the contrary if he takes that just an input from some other source confirming his muslim identity and if he takes the words of a book as absolute truth then it makes him worse.

I disagree here. I think either cases are equally negative/neutral/positive in the short term, aka life (which is what matters to the individual).

In the long term, however, I can't tell.

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@Truth Addict The verses you posted has nothing to do with Love. I know the quran very well!!

 

 

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Empty said:

@Truth Addict The verses you posted has nothing to do with Love. I know the quran very well!!

Then you should have known that every single chapter 'sura' starts in the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful.

What is that but love?

Edited by Truth Addict

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47 minutes ago, Empty said:

@Truth Addict The verses you posted has nothing to do with Love. I know the quran very well!!

 

 

One of those quotes has to do with giving food to orphans, what definition of Love are we working with?


Comprehensive list of techniques: https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I appreciate criticism!  Be as critical/nitpicky as you like and don't hold your blows

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:44 PM, Mu_ said:

And who decides what defines more useful?

You. After all its about comparing it to your own relative goals.

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@Empty i grew up in Morocco too

i just see my parents beatin me for kissing a guy when i was younger 

as an  ACTION OF LOVE i understand their fears ..... that took me 4 years to figure it out

its just a twisted kind of love .... thats ALL

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