Enlightenment and Suffering

[Inliytened1]

@David Hammond Hi Friend

Note to Mods: this is a friendly discussion - not an argument.

"Enlightenment is also a process if you look at it from a different way. It's called the noble path. I speak of that a lot. But as far as being nothingness having an ego as opposed to being an ego with a memorable non dual experience, the difference is permanent enlightenment and intellectual understanding. Bodhi is intellect, and in a Buddah the bodhi is also awakened. That's because intellect is needed in being able to see through what causes separation.

Without the development of bodhi you are basically pissing in the wind with your practice because you cannot get to permanent realization without understanding the steps. And that requires practice. "

Basically our views are the same here - we're just speaking it in different words.  You are referencing Buddhism, and I am not referencing a particular religion.   Bodhi is consciousness.   With Spiritual practice, time, experience, you gain Wisdom.  Wisdom comes with an increase in consciousness.

The buddhist's concept of permanent enlightenment is the same as mine.   After a mystical experience, you become much more conscious, because you have tapped into the consciousness of the Universe, which is your true self.  I believe Buddhism speaks of the no self in certain sects and this basically means that small self is an illusion, and in truth there is only the large self, consciousness.   

After a mystical experience in which you become conscious of the Truth, and in my case I became conscious of all facets, your intellect is awoken.  The Bodhi is awakened, in other words..it's the same thing.  I have tapped into Infinite Intelligence.

So at this point you are permanently awake, as you are viewing the world thru a non-dual lens.  

You're back as the small self, but forever changed, and Awoke - conscious.  (we can drop the whole word Ego if it makes you uncomfortable). 

Buddhism is very aligned with the Idealist Paradigm - which I subscribe to after my Awakening.  

It means that consciousness is not happening inside a brain, but the brain, and the "ego" as people call it, is happening within consciousness.  

Consciousness is equal to Absolute Infinity.  This is formless, and contains absolutely everything, which has to include nothing.

Therefore it is groundless.

So you can think of reality as a Giant mind, and within that mind is the idea of you and me.  So we agree that the ego is an idea.

The term Enlightenment is relative - it has to be - because reality is an Absolute Relativity.  There is no objective world out there.  Where I believe someone is Enlightened after they have a non-dual experience - or in Buddhism the NO self.

Becoming pure consciousness and becoming conscious of what is really going here.

That's what happened to me.

I think what you are trying to say is that you do not need a mystical experience to become enlightened according to your definition of enlightenment - which is Awakening of the Intellect.  If that's the case yes you can raise consciousness without a mystical experience, but it's not quite the same thing.   I believe you need to incorporate both in order to be fully Awake.  Also notice the memory of the becoming the Absolute is not the same as Becoming the Absolute.  It's a memory, something completely different.   So don't confuse the map with the territory.

But then once permanently enlightened as you like to say,  you can embody Truth in your everyday life, and everything including suffering, which is the topic of this post, becomes effortless because you have complete and full acceptance and understanding of it.

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Shin]

2 hours ago, cetus56 said:

Yo guys. Check this out when you get a chance. 10 mins. into it and..............well you'll see.

 

3 hours ago, David Hammond said:

 

If I die it's on you ?

[purerogue]

I think his point was that his technique does not dabble in mind side, but body side, where you will still have to struggle to integrate mind to accept different states and have problems accepting changes, which leads to losing thous states, his way is body practice generated so stays and goes when he wants.

But I can see flaws in it too , because there are many states and there are many techniques to master different things.  

Edited May 10, 2019 by purerogue

[Forestluv]

43 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Note to Mods: this is a friendly discussion - not an argument.

I’m cool with exploration that includes disagreements. I’ve come across several insight nuggets from various users in the thread. ? 

I think it enters a nondual war zone when things become personal battles over ideas. Stuff like “I’m more enlightened than you”, “You are stupid and unenlightened”, “my mystical experience is more nondual than yours”, “you are delusional because you haven’t done psychedelics”, “you are lazy because you have done psychedelics”, “my teachers are enlightened and your teachers are delusional” . . . that kinda stuff. 

There are many views of the Ox. The tail, the hooves, the horns. . . 

[Inliytened1]

@purerogue @David Hammond Gotchya - it focuses on the body to attain Enlightenment because it's so much harder with the mind because it's nearly impossible to quiet the mind.   But you can't escape the mind really, as much as you want to.   Regardless this is just a method, I didn't have a problem with the method, i just had a problem that he was promising people 48 minutes or whatever and that's all it takes.  As far as switching between God and Ego at will, well .....if he's referring there to the Budhi which i refer to as higher consciousness,  that's not the same as the Absolute.  It might take a mystical experience for him to grasp what i'm saying there...  But that's not to criticize him.     Just my take.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Serotoninluv yeah no shit..damn elusive Ox.

[Monkey-man]

no one cares about our suffering , thats the thing

no one cares about ur life in general

ego wants to think that there is someone up there who loves it and cares for it

its just ego's desire to be saved, 

in truth, no one gives a shit, u r just a biorobot without any significance, u have no more significance than a bug.

if bug is suffering, who gives a shit? its just biorobot of a bug having discomfort. it exists for no reason in total darkness. so do you.

if u r not awakened and live in darkness, who cares? no one. even u dont care about that really. u can live in dream state forever and still not care.

no one cares if u live in darkness or in light. no one loves u, no one needs u, u dont even need urself, u dont even care about urself or care about anything really, u r just a biorobot.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Monkey-man said:

no one cares about our suffering , thats the thing

no one cares about ur life in general

ego wants to think that there is someone up there who loves it and cares for it

its just ego's desire to be saved, 

in truth, no one gives a shit, u r just a biorobot without any significance, u have no more significance than a bug.

if bug is suffering, who gives a shit? its just biorobot of a bug having discomfort. it exists for no reason in total darkness. so do you.

if u r not awakened and live in darkness, who cares? no one. even u dont care about that really. u can live in dream state forever and still not care.

no one cares if u live in darkness or in light. no one loves u, no one needs u, u dont even need urself, u dont even care about urself or care about anything really, u r just a biorobot.

4 hours ago, David Hammond said:

 

Such positivity ?

[Monkey-man]

@Shin positive truth is illusion, truth is very negative.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Monkey-man said:

@Shin positive truth is illusion, truth is very negative.

If it can only be negative, that means it's only a perspective, your perspective.

[Inliytened1]

@Monkey-man It's all relative brother  remember these are dualities.

Suffering vs non-suffering, caring and not caring, these are all dualities.  

Depends on your perspective.

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

positive truth is illusion, truth is very negative.

“It is negative” is a valid perception. Yet an “it is negative” mindset is contracted within an “it is negative” mindset. 

At the human/personal level this creates an “it is negative” interpretation filter creating an “it is negative” perception and experience as the mind-body goes through life. 

[Inliytened1]

@Serotoninluv Are you sure that you are scientist and not a writer?  So damn elequent!

 

 

[Ponder]

@Markus Enlightenment (the cessation of suffering) does exist (as verified through direct experience.) Yes, hitting non-dual states is not enlightenment because they are not abiding. I believe (or know, rather; once again through direct experience), that one can hit non-dual states and actually abide in them for extended periods of time. Since I am diagnosed bipolar, I’ve had manic episodes whereby I entered non-dual states for months at a time. I’ve had four psychiatric ward stays because mere mortals (aka unenlightened ones), fear when their loved ones become God right before their eyes.

My first episode was especially intense. 

Trigger warning; strong language. 

I was screaming cu** over and over again in front of my mum and told her to punch me in the face. I have a fire within me that is unquenchable (as I’m a Taurus according to primal astrology - which I’d highly recommend you look into). After such non-dual intense states (well it’s not really a state), I had a severe ego backlash where my iq dropped to below 100 whereas in my manic states it probably pushes 160+)

Just thought that was an interesting anecdote to share. 

[Inliytened1]

@Ponder Ouch.  Sorry man but yeah that allowed you to hit insane states at the same time.

Yeah, that's what i was saying earlier about there is no such thing as "permanent enlightenment" as non-dual states are not abiding.

But when you hit a non-dual state that abide for extended periods where you become conscious of God and other facets of truth, then that is "enlightenment" in my opinion.

Embodying them in your everyday life after the non-dual state ends is kind of a virtual permanent enlightenment so to speak.

In which you are the guy at the end of the Ox herding book just running around laughing because you understand everything and it's all effortless.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Monkey-man]

@Shin @Inliytened1 @Serotoninluv

so what is your suggestion then? what kind of perspective one should have to abide in Presence without losing it?

coz positive perspectives towards life really create hopes desires values ideas and TIME, hence waiitng

while negative really destroys it all, makes u more free and leaves only here and now

Edited May 10, 2019 by Monkey-man

[zeroISinfinity]

6 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

@Shin @Inliytened1 @Serotoninluv

so what is your suggestion then? what kind of perspective one should have to abide in Presence without losing it?

coz positive perspectives towards life really create hopes desires values ideas and TIME, hence waiitng

while negative really destroys it all, makes u more free and leaves only here and now

6 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Inliytened1

 

Perspective of Truth and Love. Your True perspective. ❤️ Only perspective. 

[Monkey-man]

what if reality wants u to suffer, to destroy u, and to deceive u? 

if i think in this way, THEN i am free and being in the now

while if i think that reality loves u and wants good for u - then i am losing my focus and create hope and time.

 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Monkey-man How much you love? That is my only question. Please be honest and answer this. 

[Inliytened1]

@zeroISinfinity God's Perspective.  That's a tall order for him he just wants to know what perspective to take in his everyday life