GafaRassaDaba

Meditation Sucks

35 posts in this topic

Hello friends. I've decided to put this out there because I've been meditating/listening to Leo for a year now. I gotta be honest. Meditating sucks...does there ever come a point where you actually experience some sort of calm? Or peace? My meditation experience has been nothing but Hell since I started. I have seen Leo's Dark Side vid and I loved it, in fact it helped me keep going quite a few times. Does anyone else have this problem consistently? I constantly get weird pains in my body, sometimes so intense I feel like I'm going to throw up. Sometimes I just fucking cry and cry and cry. Sometimes I will have like an "aha" moment which will always be followed by intense depression (like suicidal thoughts depression). Sometimes I get tense muscles all over my body, so intense I have to stop. My face grimaces, my breathing intensifies, and sometimes I almost start growling. The other day I got a pain in my stomach so intense I knew I was going to throw up. I was actually planning where to do it in my head once it came up (like not on the carpet.) I kept going just sitting, breathing, eyes closed and I thought it was coming up but it was just a growl/scream. Sometimes I hallucinate and see demonic looking faces made of strange moving art. Sometimes I see Gods or Goddesses made of stars. Sometimes I fall asleep and have vivid and violent nightmares that turn into psychedelic trips. The whole experience just makes me ill at ease and ungrounded all the time. Honestly I hate it. I keep pushing through to hopefully find/have some peace but it doesn't seem to be happening. I'd like to hear from some people who have experienced this and gotten to the other side. Ive had intense depression and anxiety for many many years and nothing has ever truly helped. I hoped this would, and I get jealous when I hear people talking about how peaceful meditation is. It makes me angry bc it's the opposite of peaceful for me. The monkey mind just takes over and seems to just turn into emotional insanity. I sometimes fear that if I meditate for too long I will literally go crazy. Sometimes I just start having emotional breakdowns after about an hour....

And then sometimes the worst thing of all happens...nothing...and that pisses me off the most.

I know folks might tell me to just watch the Dark Side vid or do this, but if someone has actually been through this for an extended period, I'd love to hear from you. All replies are welcomed and appreciated though.

Thank you to all who read this and reply. I wish you all well.

-There is no God...there is only God.

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@GafaRassaDaba wow thats a very wild ego :) :o

what type of meditation are you doing?

Maybe try a new technique?

Mindfulness/Vipassana/Kriya/Self Inquiry/ Others?

Maybe try just contemplation. For me it feels like a process of removing bullshit from my mind :)

 

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Sounds like your still purging out the old to make way for the new.

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@GafaRassaDaba Ever experience things like this before you started meditating?  Or intrusive thoughts, or suicidal thoughts or depressions without having those "aha" moments?  Cos if you've got psychological issues that have yet to be dealt with, then you probably need to do more to address those than just meditate and hope they go away.  I have worked, and continue to work, extremely hard to get past my mental issues - and it's only in light of that work that I can understand myself and attain peace or calm, not through destroying them but through understanding what is happening and not so readily identifying with them.  

There's nothing wrong with combining a spiritual exploration with a psychotheraputic one: in fact I think in many ways they are complementary.  

Might not be the thing, of course, but if you've had that intense a mind and visual imagination prior to starting to meditate, and it's really causing you that much grief, it might be worth looking into.

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@Pouya

Thank you for the reply. I mostly just do the sit and do nothing style. I'm not exactly sure what it's called. I try to just observe my thoughts and let them go. Usually they just take over. Ive tried mindfulness, guided, and contemplation too. I pretty much get the same results no matter what. Guided meditations tend to give me the most nightmares...fucking weird...I know. I feel like I'm some fucked up exception to the rule. I guess I dont feel like I'm removing bullshit, I'm just shoveling it around 😂😂😂 It seems like it aint goin nowhere.

Thank you for your input.

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@cetus56

Thanks friend, but what is the new exactly? Does it ever slow down or do you just learn to like have peace in the middle of a shitstorm of uncontrollable thought processes?

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People to much relay on mediation alone, I do not even mediate anymore, real work happens in now, every moment , not just 30 min , 1 h sittings, 

But I digress , you can mediate for 50 years if you want.

Edited by purerogue

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@Telepresent

Thank you, friend. I have never really experienced any of this strange phenomena before, but I have never meditated before. I suppose when I was younger I did experience some religious phenomena in full gospel churches, but I think Ive largely shrugged all that off. Ive had depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts since I was 12, and now I'm 33. I definently have psychological issues still. I have begun to attempt to truly deal with them after my non-dual Ayahuasca/enlightenment experience (I am not enlightened lol). That alone took me months and months to deal with. I get jealous bc Ayahuasca/meditation/yoga/ all these spiritual practices and such seem to help people. They just make me feel like I'm fucking drowning. What practices would you recommemd/what have you done to deal with psychological issues? Thank you. I really appreciate your reply.

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@purerogue

TThank you. What is the work that works for you? Honestly I dont want to meditate at all lol. I hate it.

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@GafaRassaDaba Well I'd be wary of recommending any one thing.  I've learned a lot - that's the key thing.  I've read a lot about how the mind works, how it develops, how it can misfire.  I've been to doctors, counselors, mental health support groups and forums, and spent a long time regularly seeing a therapist to specifically break down my mind's habits and dysfunctions.  I've been on courses to learn techniques like CBT to help me regulate my behaviour and thinking patterns.

The most important thing I've learned to do - and this has taken a very, very long time (I'm the same age as you and started having problems with depression, anxiety, anger, and suicidal ideation around the same time as you, and with alcohol not long after that) - is to look at my psychology, behaviour, and emotions with curiosity and interest, rather than with resentment.  To think about why I feel/think/do the things I do, and to look at them in terms of an interesting story to be understood, rather than hating myself and thinking there's something wrong with me for having them.  Takes a lot of work, and I certainly needed a lot of help along the way

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14 minutes ago, GafaRassaDaba said:

@purerogue

TThank you. What is the work that works for you? Honestly I dont want to meditate at all lol. I hate it.

I did not say that you do not need to mediate, at certain point you will not need it anymore, you will have had enough insights.

Maybe the way how you do mediation is problem , try different ways, like lying down, not sitting so you are comfortable, 

First you have to build your core personality so you can cope with it, deal with your emotional problems,get past your emotions and be able to dissolve negativity that you create, or just be alright with whatever that comes at you.

It is a long path, what works for me , will not work for you now, as I past the problems you are having, anyhow, your main focus right now should be dealing with personality issues, traumas etc, explore forum, there is  all the information you need, just be ready to put in work and do not expect changes in week. 

Edited by purerogue

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I may only write about my own personal experience, so I can't tell if you can find any advice in it. For me meditation hasn't been anything what I thought it would be - it is very physical/biological experience (could be I am doing it wrong). I’m mainly trying to be aware of my body and focus attention on whatever part calls for it. I also experienced (still do but less) a lot of cramping and unblocking followed by a huge relief. I observed the process and now I kind of can manipulate my awareness in the way that these blocks of energy dissolve or move, I observe what they "look" like, I learned not to push on them but gently touch with my awareness. Moving my body while I do it often helps (I have just started Tai Chi lessens and that gave me some ideas). Sometimes I would think about some experiences from the past that I thought might have influenced some behaviours patterns or just hurt me and simply observed what emerged. I noticed that the energy can move more freely now but is also more vibrant and demanding. I got some relief over migraines and I know that when something hurts in my body it is worth directing my awareness towards it. I have hardly had any emotional symptoms - but I noticed that certain psychological patterns released their grip, some attitudes changed. I am more aware of my action in regular life.

Edited by YaMayka
missed a word

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Your intention is wrong. I imagine you're doing mindfulness meditation but it's purpose is not to become calm. It's to become more and more aware of your thoughts, feelings and emotions. It's to become more aware of your identity and ego.

If you want to be calm go sit in bath tub. Or do a different meditation techneque.

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What else do you do in life? Being more self reliant and responsible will increase your confidence, and decrease those depressive thoughts.

Try long walks in nature alone, and chanting to work on those growls.

Accept and love all the sides of you. Make a list of all the things you are afraid to be thought as, and read it to yourself, love every part of you. This will integrate you and you will have a strong self esteem.

Are you authentic and self honest? If not seek your authentic path and see in what ways had you strayed of your authentic passion.

Do you desire peace? If so let go of that desire or expectation.

For hard emotions Sedona Method is king, Journaling can also help clean the psyche.

Praying is a very powerful tool. Simple and efficient.

For me one of the most powerful tools is my spiritual 12 steps group, highly recommend it to anyone suffering from intense loneliness and emptiness. Search CoDa groups in your city.


https://antonsjournal.home.blog

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."  William Shakespeare 

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@GafaRassaDaba Read "The Mind Illuminated"


Equanimity, Stillness, Non-Reactivity, Cessation, Emptiness, Void, Disenchantment, Nothingness

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Love, Joy, Infinite Goodness, Intelligence, Consciousness, Beauty, God, The Absolute, Divine Nature, Grace

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2 hours ago, GafaRassaDaba said:

Thanks friend, but what is the new exactly?

Everything after the mind.

You may be doing some lucid dreaming too during meditation from what you say about the visuals.

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If one wants to expand their awareness beyond ego, it would seem one would need to be aware beyond ego. And guess who isn't going to like that? The ego, of course. It must relinquish control of the narrative. So, the ego will resist any trans-egoic state of consciousness. If the resistance to meditation is too much, try something else that can bring the mind-body to an expanded trans-egoic space of consciousness. Lately, I've found yin yoga to be a great for surrender, inner strength and expanding awareness.

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Peace is here, it's just that we are so used to constantly thinking and wanting to be a good someone, that minds are often severely addicted to thinking (and I think you can say out of habit but also anxiety because it's nature is not known)


love or silence

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@Telepresent @AlwaysBeNice @Serotoninluv @cetus56 @Enlightenment @Anton Rogachevski @Salvijus @purerogue @YaMayka @Telepresent

Thank you all very much. This is a confusing part of my journey and I appreciate all the insight, clarification, and ideas. My mind I feel is not just monkey mind, but crazy monkey mind throwing hand grenades. Ive never been one for yoga but perhaps I should try. Many body sensations come up when I meditate and perhaps yoga would be good for getting in touch. I do read a lot of spiritual stuff and I will continue to do so. Ive also been i therapy this past year and perhaps I need a contemplation/journaling practice as well. And yeah, I meditate to become calm, but that's not what I get. Believe it or not, I overlooked that. It's for awareness, not calmness. I will also try to let go of expectations and to be more open to what appears. Thank you all again. I truly appreciate every word.

-There is no God...there is ONLY God.

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A total shift in paradigm would stop those shitstorms in their tracks. Something really radically different. A complete departure from the defined self would be needed though. That would require quite a surrendering. Practice this every time you notice the ego acting up. Or anytime. Do it now. Realize it's all a thought story. It's always been a thought story. All you know are thought stories. The shitstorms and everything in between are just mental apparitions. Every thought you ever had was an illusion projected by the ego/mind. Surrender and step past the mind. Trancend it and find what you have always been beyond mind. That of you which does not change and does not come or go. You exist on a level beyond the mind. Go there. Get re-aquainted with that part of you that you've never forgotten. You may experience a feeling of emptiness at first. That's a good thing. The ego/mind is falling away. Let it go.  

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