Why many turquoise leaders get involved in scandals?

[brugluiz]

This is not a topic to point fingers, but just to discuss the issue that many spiritual gurus are getting involved in scandals (sex scandals sometimes).

Why does it happen? Is it because even turquoise people don't heal their emotions? Can a turquoise person be turquoise but doesn't grasp enlightenment?

I wonder why, because they're supposed to be about too much love.

[purerogue]

Because they still relay on personality, if it is not changed enough when you reach Enlightenment and your issues are not fixed, you will still act on it. 

They overestimate them self, look at this like that , sexuality is very , very strong urge, if you become Enlightened and see everything being perfect, you can be deluded by experience itself, because urge is stronger and your mind creates excuse. 

[CreamCat]

I don't know much about sex scandals, but I can say that turquoise doesn't prevent you from enjoying sex.

An enlightened person can have and enjoy sex.

Edited December 16, 2018 by CreamCat

[Shadowraix]

Well what do you mean by sex scandal?

Just because the general public sees it as immoral, a turquoise person isn't exactly on the same grounds of thinking as the general public.

 

[brugluiz]

 

3 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Well what do you mean by sex scandal?

Just because the general public sees it as immoral, a turquoise person isn't exactly on the same grounds of thinking as the general public.

 

Telling a person she'll be cured or have any spiritual benefit after having sex is a form of sexual abuse. Being turquoise doesn't seem to be the same of not following society rules.

3 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Well what do you mean by sex scandal?

Just because the general public sees it as immoral, a turquoise person isn't exactly on the same grounds of thinking as the general public.

 

Turquoise people can of course enjoy sex. I'm not saying they can't.

[Consept]

I think a big issue is that there's not many others on the same level of consciousness as a turquoise person, so there is always going to be a power dynamic between the turquoise person and others. 

So if someone turquoise finds another attractive esp if they're a guru, most likely they would be a follower or look up to that person so it must be difficult to separate that. It's kind of like someone working in an office and they get with the boss. Did they really like the boss or just the power? Obviously power dynamics happen all over society, but with the guru there seems to be something more to it because followers tend to look at them as a god. Also they don't mention sex normally so when someone hears it they might get taken a back as they thought they were above that. Only Osho really mentioned sex that I know of 

[Cortex]

Because they are still dumb and stupid, enlightnment is a waste of time, and btw Stage Red and Orange is the best, and this gurus were raised in some shitholes without any education, without anything, so you know, It is really a big shame that enlightnment is represented by such dumb individuals, that's the reason why there is no point at persuing it 

[Nahm]

@brugluiz Maybe they aren’t turquoise at all. Maybe the accuser is lying. 

[Matt8800]

13 hours ago, brugluiz said:

This is not a topic to point fingers, but just to discuss the issue that many spiritual gurus are getting involved in scandals (sex scandals sometimes).

Why does it happen? Is it because even turquoise people don't heal their emotions? Can a turquoise person be turquoise but doesn't grasp enlightenment?

I wonder why, because they're supposed to be about too much love.

There is no correlation between spiritual growth and psychological growth. Leo also covered this in one of his videos. An enlightened person could be blue and a turquoise person might not be enlightened.

[iGhost]

36 minutes ago, Cortex said:

Because they are still dumb and stupid, enlightnment is a waste of time, and btw Stage Red and Orange is the best, and this gurus were raised in some shitholes without any education, without anything, so you know, It is really a big shame that enlightnment is represented by such dumb individuals, that's the reason why there is no point at persuing it 

You are too black and white here. You need understanding + englightenment. They go hand in hand, if you wanna get the best life possible.

[Shadowraix]

10 hours ago, brugluiz said:

Telling a person she'll be cured or have any spiritual benefit after having sex is a form of sexual abuse. Being turquoise doesn't seem to be the same of not following society rules.

That is very specific compared to the term sex scandal.

[Aquarius]

Because they are frustrated humans, duhh. And every human makes mistakes. The spiral is just a model. For me it's debilitating to even use it. Master yourself, not man-made illusory maps. Reality cannot be boxed. 

[kieranperez]

You can be at Turquoise in your spiritual development and be very low in your moral development, cognitive development, etc.

You can be enlightened and still have a lot of problems with say your shadow (which is a lot of what Ken Wilber has been trying to address and wake people up on in his work because enlightenment doesn’t solve that). Enlightened beings aren’t perfect. Spiritual communities are so tricky. I’m honestly blown away by spiritual masters like Shunyamurti who I often talk about and how he runs Sat Yoga Ashram & Institute and community as powerfully effective as he does. Like any community, spiritual or not, you will have problems. It takes an extraordinary degree of humility, mastery, embodied selfless living, leadership, vision, systems thinking, etc. to run such a collective organism. It’s so far beyond just enlightenment. Most enlightened people are not capable of such a thing. You can also be very spiritually developed but be a lousy leader and teacher. I like to use the analogy of sports for this. Michael Jordan is one of the best to ever walk on a basketball court as a player but as an executive and talent recruiter, he was horrible. Phil Jackson on the other hand, yeah he made it to the NBA and he was decent but was a much better leader and teacher than he ever was a player. 

[Equanimitize]

7 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Whole Post

This is spot on, Shadow work is crucial. Your growth will be tainted if it is one dimensional. 

[brugluiz]

20 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

That is very specific compared to the term sex scandal.

If the public discovers about it and get frustrated, it becomes a scandal.

[brugluiz]

23 hours ago, Nahm said:

@brugluiz Maybe they aren’t turquoise at all. Maybe the accuser is lying. 

I don't believe it. If we start thinking that turquoise people are perfect, we start to romaticize the whole stuff. Maybe they're not perfect. Maybe that was my issue with Spiral Dynamics because I start to romanticize about it. Maybe a turquoise person didn't learn the lessons from other spiral levels, and it makes them do many mistakes when holding a position as a spiritual guru.

23 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

There is no correlation between spiritual growth and psychological growth. Leo also covered this in one of his videos. An enlightened person could be blue and a turquoise person might not be enlightened.

Interesting. Turquoise level doesn't mean enlightened. I think David Deida talks about it. He says you can be a yoga master but still don't know you're love, but you may also don't know anything about yoga and know that you're love.