Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

1,423 posts in this topic

Here's a what a very healthy version of Blue might look like. Of course Comey isn't pure Blue. He's got Orange and Green too. But his entire book and way of talking and carrying himself is a list of Blue keywords.

Notice that Blue can be very stable and reliable. A good judge or executor of the law. A good defender of decency and ethical standards.

Solid, like a rock.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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11 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Maybe a moderated wiki would be a more appropriate platform to gather and archive all this information, same with recipes, self-inquiry and meditation techniques. These valuable threads will just be forgotten in a few months and you cant just pin everything

Perhaps, but that's hard to do. It would require a separate platform and most people wouldn't know how to use it.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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14 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Maybe a moderated wiki would be a more appropriate platform to gather and archive all this information, same with recipes, self-inquiry and meditation techniques. These valuable threads will just be forgotten in a few months and you cant just pin everything

Maybe a sub forum for mega threads?

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Pope Francis is another pretty good example of Blue. Although he too has some percentage of Green which gives him compassion and the value of equality.

Blue + Green make for a very nice combo. Green tempers out Blue's harsh moralizing and us-vs-them thinking.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Moving From Red to Blue

The Delta/3 stage is included here because it shows the cognitive differentiation that occurs from Self-protective thinking to Conformist dependence and provides a logical link for mental growth. It is not included in our measurement tool, the MAP, because it is statistically rare as mentioned in endnote #7.


At this stage people vacillate between two points of view. They can take one or the other view, but not both at once. Sometimes they wonder “how do you look to me?” but newly also “how do I look to you?” They now recognize external differences regarding self-presentation and behaviors. Often children entering school are exploring this developmental stage. The Rule-oriented stage describes 
adults who are discovering the second person perspective and who begin to make simple, external comparisons based on concrete mental operations.
They become preoccupied with finding out the social conventions and rules based on the beginning need to fit in and to be liked. One wants to look “right,” and acceptable, therefore the emphasis is on external attractiveness and appearance. People at this stage show more trust in the world since acceptance and protection can be gained by following the rules.

 

The world is experienced 
as less hostile than for Self-protective folks. Persons want to be “re-spected” which means, “seen” by others. Respect can now be gained by adhering to group norms, not just by might. One also gives respect to others in the form of noticing them and how they act and look. “People notice me when I am here. I listen to them, they listen to me.” With the second perspective, one discovers the possibility for 
simple feedback. One can find out what others think about one. “I can ask my friends what they think; they will tell; and the world doesn’t collapse! I can trust them.” The ability to take a second person perspective is a milestone in the development of social interaction.

 

THE CONVENTIONAL STAGES

 

The Conformist, Self-conscious and Conscientious stages, stages 3, 3/4, and 4 respectively, cover 
the ego stages of most people after about the age of 12. We have found that roughly 80% of adults populate these three stages with most people in the adult working world moving from the Expert to the
Achiever stage. In Piagetian terms, stage 3 represents functioning at the concrete operational level, stage 3/4 uses abstract operations and stage 4 individuals rely on formal operations for their meaning 
making. According to Piaget and the cognitive schools of constructive development, Conscientious stage 4 people have a linear view of reality: they define objects (variables) as being separate and having closed boundaries; they see causality as linear and variables are treated as independent. 
The expanded 3rd person perspective with its formal operational capacities is widely considered the adult stage in much of Western culture; and society and institutions support and reward its achievement. 
It is also the stage that is described as “high” ego development in research projects that use Loevinger’s 
theory only (Manners and Durkin, 2004). A citizenry capable of rational deliberation and choice based on pertinent criteria (not external features, sameness or tradition) would seem to be a necessary precondition for democracy to work. Only such a perspective and rational assessment of choices can 
safeguard the whole and at the same time allow changes to be reflected in the laws.

 

The Conformist Stage 3

 

(Diplomat)

This is a stage of integration into a new social container. At the Diplomat or Conformist stage, 
people make sense of the world in a new way. They now have developed enough skills to get around in the world, accomplish the daily tasks of life and, in general, manage ordinary, concrete things and situations. They now actively want to play by the rules.

It is the first stage that can be considered as socialized, that is, to know about basic interpersonal skills such as sharing, and protecting one another. Most importantly, people at this stage see others as important people in their own right. They want to be like those in their environment whom they admire. 


We might say that they discovered the beginning of the “we-space.” They sing the choir of the crowd, yet without a separate voice. One can now trade magical, egocentric thinking for group-centric thinking and the security of being a member of the group. Being a part of a group gives people a new way to deal with the fact that “it’s hard to be an adult and get along.” 


The Conformist stage 3 describes persons with a frame of mind naturally developed in latency and early adolescence. Their self-identity is defined by their relationship to a group. This leads to confused boundaries between oneself and the group (whether family, sports team, or nation). Being part of this 
larger entity allows one to be protected and share in its power. The price for inclusion is an unexamined demand for loyalty and obedience. This holds for both leaders and followers at this stage. In cultures, where ostracism is a form of severe punishment, being “shunned” is meant as a death sentence. “You 
no longer exist for us.”


Conformist adults actually relish the dependency that group membership bestows. It provides safety in numbers and a new sense of power. The self is defined by and generated by the expectations and values of those others to whom one “belongs.” Conformists tend to accept norms without inspection
or questioning. Their cognitive world is divided into simple categories, and types of people, mostly based on external distinctions. Having a holiday table just like the one seen in a famous “best home” magazine, or owning a car just like one’s boss’s might really make a Conformist happy. 


The boundaries between self and others, however, are confused, literally fused and blurred. On the one hand, there is total acceptance of the family and in-group (such as peer groups in adolescence), on 
the other hand, we see blind rejection of deviance and out-groups. It’s “them” against “us” now instead of the Self-protective person’s lonely stance of “me” against “them,” which included everybody else 
(even family members). For the Conformist, you are either ally and friend and approve of us and what we do, or you are the enemy. The more status the group has, the more Diplomats feel worthy as one of its members. If it took some effort to fulfill the required demonstration of obedience and submission, they feel honored to be admitted and wearing the insignia that tell others so. 
Having a shared truth gives people a ready-made way to make sense of the world. Sometimes this goes beyond feeling valued as a member of the group. Some groups believe that their truth is the only 
truth. This fosters a sense of superiority. Members are told that they are the “chosen few” that shall be saved. All those who do not belong are doomed, considered heathen or barbarians, or whatever label 
makes them lesser or non-human. This kind of mindset is particularly common in various fundamentalist religious groups. They can judge harshly those who do not belong. It is difficult for someone whose self-
sense is based on belonging to such a group to even realize that there may be others of different faiths who believe equally fervently that they have the only truth.


In general, Stage 3 people try to uphold tradition and to avoid rocking the boat. They are 
accommodating, sometimes overly nice and non-confrontational. They don’t like to be singled out and 
get feedback. Feedback is experienced as critique and as having done something wrong and displeasing. Diplomats expect guidance from above or from those who lead them. They are not yet ready to take a stand to express themselves. They don’t have their own opinions to assert although they may be good at expounding the values and beliefs of their group. Nor can they take initiative for 
themselves. They might do so for the benefit of their group when told to do so by an accepted authority. 


Uncertainty and conflicting feelings cannot yet be registered as they threaten the very being of a Conformist. The description of this stage in terms of “not yet” exposes a common Western bias.

 
Stage 3 persons have to keep up with the neighbors. They make sure they are seen in the right 
places (for instance, in church on Sunday) and with the right group. They are often eager to contribute to the group by volunteering (PTA, church social, men’s club) and taking on preset roles in their respective clubs. Acquiring material assets and status symbols is important as these symbolize status and prove one’s worth. Moreover, the visible assets are important because the provide real personal satisfaction and they indicate one’s success. Nametags on the door, being listed as the employee of the month show that one is noticed. Trying to keep up with fashion, neighbors and material gain can, of 
course, also become a burden and a source of unhappiness and stress. 


Morality: Conformists adhere to a simple rule: “everything goes into two piles. The good, or correct, and the bad, or incorrect.” Knowing the distinction makes it easier to make sense of the world. Every 
decision, every idea, every person, every action, fits in one pile or the other. There are few, if any, shades of gray, no irony, and no intangibles. Actions are carried out with conviction. This is how it is done around here. “Either you are with us and agree or you are against us.” 


Unlike at the Rule-oriented stage where simple rules are inconsistently adhered too, here rules are beginning to be internalized and followed without question. Shame is a common response to transgressions and for undesired consequences of one’s actions. Because of their strongly held and unquestioned values, Conformists are apt to feel responsible in situations in which they are not to blame. Repeatedly saying “I am sorry” is meant to soften any repercussions. One should have done the right thing all along.
Conformists are identified with and bound to those with the same tastes, attributes, beliefs and expectations, and confused or threatened by differing demands, perspectives, diversity, and complexity. 


The values of one’s own group get introjected as strong “shoulds,” while the values of those who are different are denigrated and likely rejected as “evil.” Thus, life is governed by rules of what can be and 
cannot be done. Others with differing views are morally condemned. Sexual and aggressive feelings are 
likely denied or suppressed out of fear of rejection and abandonment. For the same reason, commandments from various religious are taken in as the Truth and not examined. The “holy books” contain the literal truth. Any questioning of their commandments guaranteeing salvation is seen as a form of treason or a sign of having fallen from grace.

 
Social: To be liked one has to have an attractive social personality. It is important to be nice, pleasant, and accommodating. People are judged by the way they dress and talk and by the proper 
manners. Great care is taken on neatness, outward appearance, cleanliness of one’s domicile or office.


There are those whom by temperament, are more contrary. At the Diplomat stage, it is possible to find some sense of OK-ness as a non-conformist. Rebels, have-nots and other misfits often need, find or create their own cliques. One can either be a loner or create or join an alternative group and display 
the markers that identify one as a member of that clique. This can happen because the individuals don’t fit the prevailing norms or do not have the tokens that would help them to belong to the high status group.

17 Multiple cliques, such as fraternities and sororities on campus, often attract various kind of students with a conformist mindset . Each has its own traditions with different acceptance rituals and 
admittance oaths. 


Feelings: Blind conformism, fundamentalism and prejudice can be expressions of this early 
conventional frame of mind. Potential aggression against self (putting oneself down) and negative affect or disappointment are often countered by demonstrations of overly positive feelings and enthusiasm. 


One’s negative feelings “I hate you” are split off and projected outside and then experienced as “they hate me.” Anger and other disagreeable feelings are suppressed as they threaten the status quo. They rarely reach awareness. 

Conformists’ main coping moves are projection and introjection. They imagine that others think, 
want, feel what they themselves think, want or feel (projection) and then try to fill those imagined needs. 


They also swallow others’ definitions, norms, values and opinions without questioning (introjection). If my mother, the church, or the boss says so, it must be true.


To summarize, the Conformist- Diplomat does not yet have a self in the sense of a separate adult identity. Instead, he or she is defined by others. The self-other boundaries are blurry and not differentiated. Thus, relationships often have a dependent, “sticky, I-need-you” quality. 


Interpersonal style: Because Conformists so desperately want to belong, they will conform to the rules and norms of whatever desired group, gang, political party they belong to. In companies they are the ones that smooth discontent or incipient conflict among coworkers and make sure that the place has a pleasant atmosphere. They value being nice and helpful. They see relationships in terms of expected behaviors (loyalty, being friendly) rather than in terms of deep feelings and motives.

Cognitive style: Conformists are interested in the concrete, visible aspects of experience and tend 
to use superlatives and conventional clichés to describe it. These clichés, however, are taken seriously and not experienced as clichés. References to inner feelings are stereotyped and predictable and 
aligned with cultural expectations. 


Conscious preoccupation: Conformists put great value on appearance, status symbols, material possessions, reputation and prestige. They are concerned with social acceptance and attempt to adjust to group norms. They deeply care about other’s opinions and evaluations although they are not likely to 
ask for feedback. “What do others think about this or that, or about me?” 


Internal dimension: Conformist individuals worry about what others think and feel at any given moment as their sense of self-worth depends on others’ approval. In protocols they express simple “acceptable” feeling states: sad, happy, nervous, upset, but do not differentiate feelings into subtler
graduations. The sense of “shoulds” and “oughts” and sense of shame and embarrassment if those 
shoulds are not fulfilled can be crushing.


Main anxiety: not to belong and to be cast out. Most threatening to a Conformist is being disapproved by or deserted by significant others, rejected by one’s group. Their anxiety is thus a fear of 
being non-existing and the loss of a sense of self as a loss of “me-as-accepted-by-others.” 


Problem solving: Generally, emerging problems are denied, or relabeled and white-washed. “Never mind that. If you look at the bright side, it’s not really so bad.” Asking a superior for what to do is the most natural way of dealing with difficulties. Conflict is not yet registered or if experience, it is avoided as 
too threatening. It can become great challenge to a Diplomat if he or she belongs to different groups with conflicting value sets. With today’s mobility and complex arrangements, this is becoming challenge for Diplomats is becoming more common. 


Organizational type: Conformists seek acceptance and protection by a larger entity. They are most 
apt to be drawn into organizations with a clearly defined identity and hierarchical structures. Clear instructions, advice and guidance are preferred over freedom to show initiative. Thus, command and 
control enterprises such as the military are attractive.


Coaching-Counseling style: Conformists like to give lots of advice telling others what to do or not to do. They also tend to compare and evaluate others according to their own preferences where the way 
I manage or we do it here is the right way while other ways are simply wrong and need to be corrected.

Sample characters: Edith Bunker in All in the Family takes all kinds of abuse by others, particularly 
her spouse Archie, but she stays with him. She is fluttering and fussing around him, always trying to be positive, to see the best in everybody and in everything. Edith finds pleasure in taking good care of her 
loved ones. However, the character Edith also displays an open-mindedness which is not typical of this stage.

 
Language signs: The language is often impersonal, nice and positive and may be full of clichés. Short, stereotypical phrases, exaggerated positive affect are common on the MAP. Everybody and everything is fun, important, wonderful. When describing situations; concrete aspects and factual information is given. Conformists describe their and others’ behavior in terms of I “always”, we “never.”
The vocabulary for feeling states is simple, undifferentiated.

Source: cook-greuter.com


source: cook-greuter.com 

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Blue reacting against Red

Edited by SoothedByRain

We are all one spark, eyes full of wonder

“Take the lowest place, and you shall reach the highest.” 

“In the monastery of your heart, you have a temple where all Buddhas unite.” - Milarepa 

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Red / Blue

Edited by SoothedByRain

We are all one spark, eyes full of wonder

“Take the lowest place, and you shall reach the highest.” 

“In the monastery of your heart, you have a temple where all Buddhas unite.” - Milarepa 

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So much Blue. I think she is Christian also.

Edited by SoothedByRain

We are all one spark, eyes full of wonder

“Take the lowest place, and you shall reach the highest.” 

“In the monastery of your heart, you have a temple where all Buddhas unite.” - Milarepa 

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@Leo Gura Thank you for not resting in your spiritual and/or cosmic consciousness for too long without taking earthly action ;-)

Love this thread! 

We shouldn't forget to mention here what is written down in sooo many children's books that is "stage blue". If anyone needs a new life purpose, become a yellow/turquoise children book writer, seriously! It's unbelievable... no, it's not of course. It's all how it's supposed to be right now. 9_9

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This is a good example of Blue in our pop culture. His politics are also very blue stage like. It was disappointing since I was a big fan of his back in the day. Good boxer, but not very conscious human being.

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's a what a very healthy version of Blue might look like...

Thanks. That helps. 

 

 

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Secular talk is basically a treasure trove of videos like this. I could post twenty of them


The kingdom of heaven is within.

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Sorry, couldn't help myself. Alex Jones makes this too easy and too amusing.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura lol I was going to post that, but I thought it might be too disturbing. I guess we are all adults here. 


The kingdom of heaven is within.

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Lol I wonder if Alex Jones is actually blue. He seems so insane sometimes I wonder if it’s all an act 

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