Open Relationships What Do You Think About Them ?

[ValiantSalvatore]

 

What do you think about open relationships? Or has someone experience with them? I just can compare and contrast, with bonobo "societies" and chimp "societies" since I have not been in one or know people who have been in an open relationship. Where the former is dominated by females and the latter by males. In the society where females dominate, the male bonobos have more sex and women too, they are also homosexual, so both females and males mate with each other ( although males not till the ejaculation ). Whereby the chimpanzees have less sex, yet they are dominated by males and there are a lot of schemes and intrigues against the current alpha male in the group, so chimpanzees team up together to take down the alpha male, if they do not get enough resources like sex and food or are sort of oppressed when one male is to dominate and just does what he wants. 

How do you think these societies compare to open relationships, open relationships seem to be neither dominated by both sexes, so I am quite curious how an open relationship plays out since they seem kind of bonobo-like lol. 

Also, how are open relationships in general and what do you think about them?


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[Spiral]

I've never seen a successful open relationship, although I rarely see successful "closed" relationship with today's youth. I can imagine it's better then being single but I won't want it. 

[ajasatya]

open relationships are for lazy and undisciplined people. they don't work towards mastering their sexual energy thus they become slaves of unstable sexual urges. they fear intimacy and get attached very easily.

[Shin]

Nothing wrong with it, but at the same time, isn't too easy ?

You'll never have to control yourself if you are in a open relationship, there is no discipline to have, you just fuck.

I mean, in principle it is good, no limitations whatsoever, you can show your love to everyone, but if you think about it, like @ajasatya said, you aren't using your sexual energy to do great things in the meantime.

This sexual energy that you use to fuck other people, you could save to master a field you love, and share it with the world.
Or go deeper with your partner, it's not like there is a limit to how much you can love him/her.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Shin

[ValiantSalvatore]

@ajasatya I read your 21 days before enlightenment journal and I am quite curious now. Why do you think open relationships are for lazy and undisciplined people would it not be possible to master or to get a hold of one's sexual energy or unstable sexual urges, so that you could live in an open relationship that is stable. So, there are clear rules and boundaries that all participants accept and follow? Or they all have some sort of training or are training together?

 @Shin I am always wondering why monks decide to stay in a monastery or live in celibacy, sometimes I can comprehend that there is nothing special about sex and that it is just done mostly for pleasure in our society, then I wonder why people do tantra yoga ( just googled a bit about it ) or perhaps some other disciplines. I did not try it yet. So, I don't know. Would it not be possible to share that with multiple people or is there a holding capacity for sexual energy? I can certainly understand the no control and let's just f* around part lol.

[ajasatya]

6 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

would it not be possible to master or to get a hold of one's sexual energy or unstable sexual urges, so that you could live in an open relationship that is stable.

what is the point of open relationships?

and just to make it clear, you don't live in an open relationship. all of your relationships would have to be open.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@ajasatyaTo share intimacy, love and a deep connection and broadening that with a few chosen people intensely, so these qualities could be transferred to other people, like a skill that you develop, that how I imagine an ideal " open relationships" does look like. It should not make the people in the relationship special and of course, love, intimacy, and affectionateness is shared with other people. So, that all of your relationships are open, yet that you have a few training partners for developing qualities like affectionateness, learning to have a deep connection with people or with multiple people, sharing, and understanding perspectives and "love" and trust. It is similar to a monogamous relationship, where you would want to share and cultivate those qualities, yet you just choose it to do it with more people that you enjoy being with. And of course, you would also burn through a lot of pain and emotional upheavals/stress in the process. Also, if you are all these qualities already. Then one could simply choose to share or not share them making the question of open relationships unnecessary and also of monogamous relationships.

I do understand that the notion of love that society has, has been imprinted by society. So, I do not know what real love is yet, yet cultivating mindfulness and doing meditation and listening to different teachers gives me some insights on how it could look like and it has occurred in most peoples lives as a child or adult etc, even if only sporadically. Even if they did not notice that, because they have nothing to compare this experience too and recognize this is true love and not the attachment and making someone special society/parents/peers have told them.

[Elisabeth]

I find this thread to be prejudice piled upon prejudice. 

@ValiantSalvatore First, you'd have to define your terms. There's an awful lot of approaches to nonmonogamy (and that's just a map done by someone with a polyamorous mindset and background). 

Two people doing seemingly the same thing for completely different reasons are not really doing the same thing. You could be covering up psychological issues by your sex addiction, or you could be actually having conscious sexual contact with responsibly chosen partners to illuminate your own issues and work on them. 

I can choose to be in an open relationship because I value the freedom to follow my impulses, and at the same time not follow my impulses. 

Both Buddhism and Tantra will aim at transcending your longings and attachments. But they choose fundamentally different methods: while the Buddhists will tell you to exercise self-control and not engage, but mindfully observe and let go of the attachment, tantra will encourage you to try whatever you long for (with consenting people obviously) but while at it mindfully observe - the attachment will be eventually transcended. 

I won't deny that I prefer the tantric approach before the ascetic one. It allows you to really understand yourself in that area and reclaims one of the most powerful forces within you (sexuality) to be used for self-improvement. (Btw. working with sexual energy is just one step on the tantric path to enlightment - important, but small.)

Not saying there aren't more ascetic approaches which can do just that in some transformed way, though. 

Edit: Didn't see the last post before posting mine. Although it's quite idealistic, I'm sure some tantrics and some polyamorous people would share your vision. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Elisabeth

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Elisabeth  I read through the Wikipedia article about Polyamory and saw that there are different terms on how one defines an open relationships, and the concepts are quite interwoven so, it can be difficult to separate them. So, I did not want to go into details, since I do not know about them (yet) and also, I can see that these details are important when you are in such a type of relationship or want to discuss it... Same goes for monogamy and sexual preferences. The map you sent is great lol and quite sarcastic. (Btw, I just wanted to share my idea and see what other people think.)

Would love to combine both since one approach seems to be dogmatic and I am reading that it is quite common for people in the monastery to break the rules, they have about sex. Yet, this is very nuanced since people have different opinions on what actually happened, for instance a teacher groping a student as some sort of abuse of the status as teacher or because of the actual attraction the event occurred. I also find the "scientific" approach interesting where certain cultures lived in polyamory or let's just say they lived and exchanged partners, sex and cared for each other ( hunter and gatherer cultures), So, it did work in the past and it already has been questioned that there are certain aspects where one derives his sexual attraction/identity from, so biology, culture/ society have a giant impact. On what one finds attractive. As far as I remember variety and novelty is what "biologically" interests women the most besides from culture and societal impacts, I don't remember men.

Also, I can imagine since I did not read about it that certain traditions turn into "harems", although I remember Sam Harris talking about the guru cult in his book "waking up" that some gurus claim enlightenment of some sort and abuse it for pleasure, money etc. The ordinary bullshit ?

Also, I can imagine combining both aspects can also be dogmatic the ascetic and the tantric approach, I would like to try it and see for myself what happens. It will just get very confusing since many people do not combine these two ways (tantric and astetic) , so you could not compare and contrast, where one went off course inside ones own "tradition" or ideal. Still, it seems less dogmatic IMO or the complete opposite totally dogmatic, yet it is quite difficult to share with other people that lifestyle. Sometimes I also think personality and genetics play a role where people are attracted to certain ways of living based on their personality and biology. So.. different things work for different people and everyone thinks somewhere they are right.

I am curious if someone has been in an "open relationship" or polyamory here in this forum and has combined his spiritual practices from different traditions, so one could learn from each other or implement a small part of a tradition or exercise to benefit the relationship/community/behavior of one self. Also with the bonobo and chimpanzee information I wrote at the beginning of the post, I was curious how "dominance" plays out in an open relationship or polyamory etc. Where it is not as clear as in the typical monogamous relationship, where the male tends to be dominant and women more submissive, in the "typical conservative" relationships. They other way can also be possible and you do see that nowadays.

I am curious about when one integrates both female and male aspects of oneself, how equal a relationship can be especially with biological components having an impact. Dunno if this is relate able, since I can't explain yet, in detail what female and male aspects are. Only vaguely and -> male (freedom,independence,autonomy?) female (compassion,love,sharing and caring) yes also a men or women have all these qualities and they occur on different stages of development referring to Ken Wilber here        (pdf attached).

 

Overview of Developmental Levels.pdf

[Elisabeth]

@ValiantSalvatore My approach to polyamory is quite "secular" and I do have a lot of problems in my relationship, so I can't easily put myself forward as an example.  I refer you to that polyamory forum for questions on what does and doesn't work in polyamory. I think you'll get better answers there. 

As for tantra, I encourage you to find a teacher that resonates and just try. I've only done introductory courses, and for me, these were a great opportunity to get comfortable with nudity, to set my boundaries straight and to improve my self-image, but also to try a lot of basic energy-work and meditation exercises - the teacher was very eclectic and not dogmatic at all. It was overall fun and beneficial, although some fears and dislikes also came out very strongly and had to be confronted. But I suspect there's great variety in the content and quality of courses. I haven't studied any theory nor did I go very deep - but I'd say if you're looking for references on a combination of both experience and self-control, tantra teachers should be able to help you. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Elisabeth  Thx a lot ! I will look into that

[HII]

17 hours ago, ajasatya said:

open relationships are for lazy and undisciplined people. they don't work towards mastering their sexual energy thus they become slaves of unstable sexual urges. they fear intimacy and get attached very easily.

To me this seems like dogma thrown against a straw man.

7 hours ago, ajasatya said:

what is the point of open relationships?

What is the point of closed relationships?

@ValiantSalvatore My main thought about this is that the idea of telling another person what they are supposed to do or not to do when I'm not around, doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes I agree on temporary exclusivity (for example at the moment), when I'm really okay with it. But ultimately, it doesn't make sense to me (at least it never did so far).

I haven't lived a long-term open relationship yet, but I'm still pretty sure it's very much possible. Connecting with people on an intimate level is still a learning process for me that will go on a long way. It's exciting and interesting and I'm making huge progress at the moment. Maybe I can tell you more in the near future

[Shin]

Anyway, being open to it is good.
Not in the sense that you must do it, but being open to the idea, it's the only way to know if you truely and authentically do or do not want it.

You could deceive yourself and think you don't want it by fear, and this isn't good because facing your fears is what makes you grow.
You could also want it for bullshit reasons (that you may not be conscious of), like more sex/attention to fill the void within.

I also think that it probably depends a lot about your psychee and energy management level, I guess if you're introvert as fuck, you may not desire to have multiple intimate relationship, simply because your don't have energy to do it, and also because you like to spend more time on your hobbies/work.

[Forestluv]

My current GF has done open relationships. When she describes the ideal, it sounds a bit intriguing. 

Her two main points are 1. that no one person can meet all of a persons interests/needs and 2. that she can put lovers in “compartments”. Relations with one man does not threaten or take anthing away fom relations with another man. She can be fully present within each compartment.

Yet, when she describes her actual experiences, they sound unhealthy and a mess. Something I don’t want to be a part of.

We agreed to be monogamous with platonic opposite-sex friends. Yet, I can tell she yearns for an ex as a secondary partner. They have been volatile in the past and he has hurt her. She says she wants to progress forward together and her ex isn’t worth sacrificing our relationship. Yet I can tell she still yearns/fantasizes about him and I think it’s a barrier for us to develop deeper intimacy. 

[NoSelfSelf]

If you want sex playmates then its good l

[aurum]

@ValiantSalvatore

They're great. There's so much social conditioning around sex, love and what it's "supposed" to look like that people freak out when you suggest anything other than monogamy.

At the same time, the success of any relationship is mostly going to come down the people who are in it. For some people it will be right, for others it won't. Really the answer is just to find what works for you.

[Martin123]

 

[YaNanNallari]

Open relationship just to fuck around seems like fucking around to me. Both parties have to really be totally ok with the open relationship or it's not going to work, and most people aren't ready for that, or then they are indeed sex addicts. You don't want it to turn to a multiple friends with benefits thing, where you miss out on intimate relationships with anyone. Rather have good healthy relationships that you get something out of.

Open relationship doesn't mean you even do anything serious with anyone else. I personally feel restricted and not free to express myself as I wish if I'm kept to a single person. I don't like the idea of someone relying on me too much or wanting to "own" me. So technically it would be an open relationship for me, but I'm fine with not going around at all, so sticking with just one partner would be totally cool with me. Trying to have something lasting on the side of a main relationship seems energy and time consuming, unless you were to literally live together with more than 2 people. An open relationship would allow you to flirt and find better matches while in a relationship, because you never know if you meet someone who's a better for you.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@HII  Looking forward!

@Serotoninluv I can see the point of putting people into compartments and to be aware of that, and that the threat of taking something away from another person is reduced or completely eliminated depending on the person. Also, it is quite interesting to hear that the fantasizing about intimacy with someone else can create a barrier, between the people involved in the relationship.

@Shin I agree that it depends a lot on a persons psyche and energy management I went out with two friends (both female) of mine and we went touring through the city (Paris) starting early in the morning and we had plans to go out late in the evening to a restaurant, I can't remember if we had a break between and went back to the apartment or we just stayed in the city the whole day and went out in the evening to the restaurant. We are all introverted, so I told them at the beginning the we are not likely going to have the energy to do this. They also wanted to do something afterwards and I was leaving the city.

We went to the restaurant during evening time and surprisingly, since I never went out with two girls alone, the waiters where very happy to serve us in the end, since I made my two friends laugh the whole time or a good amount of the time when we went out to eat, although the waiters where skeptical of me since I was quite drained and tired after that long day, so I was quiet at the beginning. Also, the city was quite progressive so there was not a lot of judgement " in the air", and everyone of us was just nice to the waiters and considerate, that was also the first time I considered an open relationship. Not to sound like a prick because I was out with two girls, the setup can variate! ( I am thinking about how an open relationship plays out) So, we had a good time although it was odd sometimes and I felt challenged "entertaining" two young women, but I enjoyed the challenge lol. (Trying not to apply to concept of gender seems impossible for me atm)

Also, I think introverts would have the advantage of not being as jealous of each other as long as everyone is introverted or has a tendency to act introverted, because alone time would be respected also hobbies and interests would have to be not as similar, also deep conversations would be more valued, so the negotiating part of the relationship would be good. Difficulties could be that they would look awkward in social gatherings at least at the beginning and that one person could isolate him/herself/other pronoun (dunno which one to use) and that the different kind of depth of connections could vary, so jealousy or envy could become a problem again. Extroverted people could do a lot together so, their lifestyles or activities dictate the relationship a lot depending on how outgoing they are. I guess the relationship could end out to just be a group which does a lot of activities together and enjoy having a good time and also sex. I could imagine the depth of the relationship could fall flat and that they become to used to each other or that they have more fun with another person and kick someone out like in the video of@Martin123 lol and to not give another person the chance to go deeper and share.

Also, getting to used to each other could become a problem for introverts they could be annoyed of each other with a lot of passive-aggressiveness, yet these are all just considerations for how an "open relationship" would look like without the focus to a "spiritual beneficial open relationship"  where the focus would not be to fulfill sexual desires / emotional needs and the relationship would be used to increase ones level of consciousness or let's say since I never had an experience of what "pure consciousness" is like, to aid each others spiritual practice and to burn through emotional dependencies/ needs/ with ones spiritual practice and to learn from different traditions.

It would be like having a team that is specializing in different fields using their knowledge to build something great, or a team of researches sampling different traditions/ways to find out which one works for them or could work for someone else and to find that "niche" of the most beneficial practice a person could have and then use it to learn from each other and implement parts from different traditions the other person specializes in, so you would have "several masters" from different traditions working together to find flaws in each others practice and have deep discussions about this stuff on an intimate level, since they would spend a lot of time together, dunno if this is good or progressive in any sense. It does sound to me IMO!

Most people say that spending time alone in a cave is the most beneficial thing to do ( over generalizing here) to further aid ones practice/ reach new stages/depth. Yet, at the same time masters say that the communication between masters from different traditions is not happening or just sparingly. So, an open relationship with all people having a spiritually centered lifestyle could be a new thing, when the participants are also taking this seriously, the relationship and the spiritual practice. Maybe it would also help with the problem that in some monasteries where there is sexual misconduct. Yet, it could also turn out bad into a spiritual harem where people are just easily abused. I am stopping here I was just thinking about an ideal. Conceptualizing to much most likely, although I like the idea, still a monogamous or even no relationship at all is fine.

@aurum Guess that is what it comes down to. I never talked about open relationships with other people besides here now, I will talk about it with my friends though to see their reaction.

@Martin123 Very funny xD. Yet, this is where I think development comes into play they seem very modernistic of course this is just an over dramatization, yet it would not be over dramatized if there was not a seed of truth in it. The people look very modernistic and superficial also their behavior, yes obviously it is a joke. I still perceive a seed of truth in their satirical display. So, I am wondering how people on a post-modern or integral etc level would handle such a relationship or even engage in one, most likely there won't be the necessity, to do it or the tendency to want to do it as I can imagine it on a post modern level. Dunno if comes down to that most likely to ones level of consciousness. So I just leave it there.

 

[Martin123]

@ValiantSalvatore to each their own