Dominik Drums

Does Leo Takes Responsibility For People That Follow Him? No.

22 posts in this topic

Hello,

English is not my native lang., so I am really sorry for any mistakes I will make below.

Many of you are on path to become enlightened, enlightenment seems to be your priority. I wonder how many of you follow Leo blindly, I wonder how many of you have lost the scepticism, cause Leo may be wrong. Some of you are just following what he says no matter what, probably if you heard about enlightenment from other source you wouldn't even follow this path. I respect Leo and I think he is doing tremendous work for people who want to improve their life, but I have many objections during the self actualize process. 

  1. Take a look at meditation - many people are getting positive effects of that process, but usually meditation in classical approach is focusing on the breath, being present, feeling the body - main expected effect is to become relaxed, calmer. Leo is giving you this concept of not being you, that you are reality, not your body - it's connected with killing your ego and your ego have a lot of defensive mechanisms. Much deeper than just focusing on the breath, right? Leo is influenced much more with eastern philosophy and I wonder how many of you are sceptic about this? Because i'm sceptic that means my ego is fighting using one of it's defensive mechanisms? My friend is studying eastern culture for quite long, he see a lot of bullshit there as well as in western culture. Could you really say that you are aware that it is your decision to dedicate your life and time for enlightenment?
  2. Life have many great things to offer - music and how it evolves over the years, listening, learning, playing, singing - what an amazing opportunity we have. You can become great musician in this life and really create amazing, beautiful art, get deeper with understanding yourself, your emotions. Or let's say you want to become great mathematician or programmer - you can create great, useful tools for people, create amazing concepts and deeply loose yourself in the world of abstraction. Isn't life amazing giving you this oportunity? Or you can study history, civilizations, language, you can travel etc. And to really understand one topic, to explore that and develop trully it usually takes your whole life. And you decide not to do that - to work every day for many hours on thing you trully love that world offers you. Instead you decide to become reality, kill ego. I'm not juding you, you can do whatever you want to do with your life as long as you not hurt other people, but do you trully want this or you lost yourself during the process?
  3. My example - I was very oriented on goals, after I started listening to videos like Understanding Meaning, Purpoe, Value and Enlightement videos my motivation went down and my view of the world shifted. How about people that were oriented on goals, let's say their goals were healthy as those mentioned before (music, math, traveling), but they follow this path to enlightenment and they are going through many different problems:
    • Suicidal thoughts
    • Everything seems meaningless, every activity that human do is pointless - their loose motivation to persevere on commitments, goals, dreams
    • Paradoxically they get back to bed, they do nothing or stupid activities, because they don't have enough will power to achieve big goals, to make dreams come true, cause it takes whole energy and more, instead they are shooting theirself in foot with killing the ego - after doing nothing, mediating, self inquiry there is not enough motivation to believe in "external" goals.
    • They are getting real problems - financial, health etc. because their values erode to enlightenment, focusing on present, completely loosing old priority system with their dream life, goals, vision

I won't type more, cause nobody probably read all of it. I know Leo does not take responsibility for consequences of his advice, but consequences are fact, people change after learning from Leo.

Edited by Dominik Drums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums
I share with you the critique on the "killing of the ego". I think it is a very greedy and ugly thing to do, killing your ego for realization of the truth.
At the other hand the methods Leo is sharing are very universal for pretty much any spiritual path, if you want to kill the ego or not, meditation and doing nothing should actually help you with pretty much everything, surely there will be difficult phases where you have to go trough the depths or your subconscious minds, this is what makes it so effective compared to the more worldy approach in the first place. You will have to face your demons, which does not always equate to destroying your ego.
I am not on a journey to destroy the ego, however I am on a journey to freely choose what I want my ego to be and to realize that it does not really exist, that it is just a concept which I can make art of. The art of sculpting your ego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums this kind of work is for those who aren't scared of facing the magnitude of their freedom.

for those whose happiness depend on egoic validations and external motivations, they should stay away because self-actualization is a way of dismantling old patterns. it's destructive.

there's nothing wrong with goals. being a slave of your goals is the problem. but only a few people can face the reality of not being a slave.


unborn Truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums Enlightenment path is very advanced topic. It is not a child's play. Leo warns you that it may cause depression, irritability, nihilism in his videos about Enlightenment. He also warns you to be at a self actualized point in your life before you start engaging in consciousness work. He warns you that this is the absolute deepest work one can do - and it is heroes journey - requires from you to be strongest version of yourself. It will require from you to surrender almost whole of your materialistic life and desires to reach high success in this work. So don't blame Leo because he literally warned you evertime

however I agree that if you do this work mentally and physically unprepared it will bring you more harm than benefit. Apply this information only with greatest caution!

Edited by egoless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems you just watched a bunch of videos but are clearly missing the big picture of Leo's teaching judging from your questions.

Leo never said to give up on doing what you love in favor of pursuing enlightenment - quite the opposite, he has an entire course on Life Purpose and he constantly points to the fact that enlightenment and LP are deeply interconnected. He also talked at length on the apparent contradictions between being aware of the inherent meaninglessness of reality vs still having motivation, goals etc, and not mistaking that as depressing nihilism.

Although it's true that many people seem to pursue enlightenment to avoid facing real life and doing self improvement. But IMO that has more to do with the fact that they completely misunderstood this whole enlightenment thing, and their wounded egos are making them see only one side of the teaching instead of the big picture.

Anyway, Leo has no responsibility whatsoever, he's just sharing insights. It's up to everyone to be true to themselves, use their brain, and do what's right for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't understand at all, sorry. I don't blame Leo for anything, instead I said he is doing tremendously good work which I highly respect.

17 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

for those whose happiness depend on egoic validations and external motivations, they should stay away because self-actualization is a way of dismantling old patterns. it's destructive.

What is wrong with - for example being great musician, creating music, cause:

  • I want to express MYSELF,  I don't want to analyse "concept of ego" - this is who I am, I elvolved and I am musician and I just want to express myself. I don't see anything bad about that and probably it's egoistic, but I don't care. I want to inspire people by devoloping myself and to inspire I mean inspiring with my looks, words, acts etc.
  • I want to create art which will change others people perspecitive, which will give them something to think about, which maybe will change whole life for somebody.
  • By my art I want to save current moment in my life - my works is directly connected with who I was at the time when I released my work to the world, probably I will look at this after 40 years and I will be touched watching my journey. If it's egoistic, again, I don't care.

And list go so on, and so on. Is every musian egoistic in some way? For me - yes, moreover - probably it's necessary. What is bad about this? I think you just wanted to post something that you have on your mind which is not connected with my post, but ok, that's fine.

 

I know about Leo LP Course. I know that enlightenment requires preparation and work, I never excluded that before. I just WONDER why are you following this path, if you can just be skeptical about whole concept of enlightenment, what if this whole theory is false for example? Why you decide to invest your time to become enlightenment instead of being who you are and taking as much as you can from what world offers you (again - music, art, technology, science)?

And as you can see I know about the side effects of that journey, I see the cost of this, cause I listed some bad things. That is not the purpose of this thread. The purpose is to find people who are sceptic about this, or were sceptic, but after lot's of experience, knowledge etc. decided to follow this path. The reason is not, cause Leo said enlightenment is important or meditation should be your number one habit according to his videos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leo has said over and over again in his videos that you should practice skepticism even at everything he says and think for yourself. If people still fall in to the trap of following him blindly, thats too bad. But that's not something he can control and  when he's reiterated time and time again that people shouldnt blindly follow him he's done what he can.

The rest is up to the viewer. Sadly, there will always be people that won't get that, even if you tell them 100 times. So, IMO he's done his part, so why should he take responsibility if people can't understand something that has been said countless times?

Also, in reality no one really is responsible for anything, i know that might be hard to swallow but it's true. Inquire more and you will probably at a certain point figure out that free will is just imaginary. Therefore trying to keep people responsible for things that are out of their control will just lead to more suffering.

Edited by AxelK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums You already are The One.  You can accomplish your wildest dreams, already. There is nothing you need. You are completely free. Every single person and thing you see and hear, is you. It is the act of limiting your infinite self that is creating everything around you right now. 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dominik Drums said:

And list go so on, and so on. Is every musian egoistic in some way? For me - yes, moreover - probably it's necessary. What is bad about this?

Nothing bad at all. If music is your LP, then pursue music. Again, as Leo himself said many times, enlightenment and life purpose are interconnected, they don't exclude each other, that would be a misconception and a naive view of enlightenment.

But you gotta be aware that your LP, whatever it is, is a mental construction. So is "you". That's why having enlightenment as a high priority is important. Note, not the only priority, just the highest priority. Does not exclude LP and other life areas.

1 hour ago, Dominik Drums said:

I know about Leo LP Course. I know that enlightenment requires preparation and work, I never excluded that before. I just WONDER why are you following this path, if you can just be skeptical about whole concept of enlightenment, what if this whole theory is false for example? Why you decide to invest your time to become enlightenment instead of being who you are and taking as much as you can from what world offers you (again - music, art, technology, science)?

Because you don't exist, you just aren't aware of it. Enlightenment is about being more and more aware of it. If you aren't aware of it, your life is run by ego, i.e. it's based on a lie. That's why a conscious person decides to invest their time to become enlightened. Which again, doesn't exclude life purpose and other life areas, so you can pursue music art technology science whatever, at the same time. In fact, doing enlightenment and LP simultaneously is the ideal thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

But you gotta be aware that your LP, whatever it is, is a mental construction. So is "you". That's why having enlightenment as a high priority is important. Note, not the only priority, just the highest priority. Does not exclude LP and other life areas.

Because you don't exist, you just aren't aware of it. Enlightenment is about being more and more aware of it. If you aren't aware of it, your life is run by ego, i.e. it's based on a lie. That's why a conscious person decides to invest their time to become enlightened. Which again, doesn't exclude life purpose and other life areas, so you can pursue music art technology science whatever, at the same time. In fact, doing enlightenment and LP simultaneously is the ideal thing to do.

Thank you for your reply. Here we are - we are getting to the axiom -  "you don't exist.". Here is the final line in this discussion. From that point you build whole concept of enlightenment. If you try to be sceptic about this you can't go any further. What gives you reasons to build that whole theory? I know Leo said that looking for let's say scientific proof is pointless, but that's about Leo - what gives YOU reason to think this way?

 

Let me be an example. I can agree with you that LP, values and everything basically is mental construction. For me drumming and music is absolutely everything, emotions are flowing inside me, I just feel it in my bones and I visualize about music all the time. It's me. My friend for example completely doesn't understand my way of thinking, he has got completely different values AND BY MY EXPERIENCE I understood that every other person view this world differently - and this is absolutely normal. That leads me to statement that - Every point of view on this world is just mental construction.

But the problem is with "YOU", something in me dictates everything, I don't know why I love music, but "I" love this and can't live without this. What gives you reason to that statement that I don't exist? What gives you power to say that this is existenstial truth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Dominik Drums said:

But the problem is with "YOU", something in me dictates everything, I don't know why I love music, but "I" love this and can't live without this. What gives you reason to that statement that I don't exist? What gives you power to say that this is existenstial truth?

Nothing, because I'm pretty fucking far from being enlightened. You can't even really know what enlightenment actually IS until you get there. But I've had enough glimpses and psychedelic experiences to know that Leo and a ton of other nonduality teachers aren't fucking with us. And even if my ego is still rampant, I've shed enough superficial layers to understand intuitively that ALL the layers are ultimately illusory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Dominik Drums said:

What gives you reason to that statement that I don't exist? What gives you power to say that this is existenstial truth?

To exist is not all that great. I'm currently experiencing incredibly strong negative emotions throughout my whole body and the only thing that keeps me sane and at relative peace is the continuing recognition of the space from which all experience arise and into which all experience fades... 

The real question is: Can there be peace in Hell.


"Become interested in the experience of being aware" - Rupert Spira
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usu_cLGXLg4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@see_on_see Thanks, your replies are really wise. For me at this moment what you talk about is just experiencing another perspective which seems to fit the puzzle. Although I know nothing about psychodelics and I am not really into that thing in that moment in life, but again - for me it seems preety suspicious if there is any need for using any external thing to understand enlightenment. How can you tell if your mind is not playing with you? Why you really try to go this path? 

 

As I said - Leo is influenced by eastern culture - yoga, meditation, enlightenment. Why would you do meditation practice where you can just sit alone, without any concept and have a moment for reflection? Or if you are from western culture just build your own relationship with for ex. Jesus and from that relationship you will be trying to cultivate your values. Isn't this let's say replacement/different approach? You somehow believe in enlightenment due to psychodelics experience, self inquiry, meditation and you gain positive results, example: it's @Dodo way to deal with strong negative emotions, where I can just sit still or have intimate relationship with the thing that I believe, let's say Jesus Christ.

And as a general reminder - I started this topic to wonder about your reason and motive to dedicate your life for becoming enlightened.

Edited by Dominik Drums
Wrong word used, have --> know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the thing I freaked out most when trying to get into the whole Eastern philosophy and religion.

 

Of course you wanna do everything to save your poor-ass soul! But that whole concept is based on reincarnation - and how can one know that it's true?How can one sacrifice everything just to follow some dogma  he could never check or truly figure out???

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do people who follow Leo take full responsiblity as they follow him


Sarcaste <3 the Sarcasm in Me acknowledges and honors the Sarcasm in You 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Lexonn said:

This is the thing I freaked out most when trying to get into the whole Eastern philosophy and religion.

Of course you wanna do everything to save your poor-ass soul! But that whole concept is based on reincarnation - and how can one know that it's true?How can one sacrifice everything just to follow some dogma  he could never check or truly figure out???

I think in this forum, in whole Actualized.org that Leo had built - it goes much deeper. When you try to go to videos that seems more pragmatic, practical, Leo even there builds the core problem from our ego. Take a look at his jealousy video, addictions video and many many more, which are practical, personally I think they are great, but I am also sceptic, cause his whole concept is build upon Eastern philosophy which leads to noself, ego death, enlightenment. We have many experts, therapists who treats addictions, emotional problems, relationship problems and probably not many of them are using this concept of ego when they try to help certain people - maybe cause they give short-term treatment which masquerade problem for while and they take the money, OR MAYBE they deeply know this approach of consciousness, mindfullness work and yet they don't believe in that.

I'm preety sure many of Leo folowers are not aware of that, and not enough sceptic about his approach. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he also says in the video description that people should take 100% responsibility if they take action on what he says in the video(paraphrasing but similar) at least i sware i have seen it before either on hes website or hes videos

yep he did it with this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAEr_94EDY&t=1010s

 

Edited by BjarkeT

No more victim mentality. 

Every single problem in my life is my responsibility no matter how hard it is.

“It’s not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me” Batman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BjarkeT Would like to probably focus on your scepticism during the learning process.Did you have any objections about Leo eastern influences or you were deeply interested before with eastern philosophy and after your own experience etc. you decided to follow path which Leo suggests? Or maybe it was just like heard this theory from Leo and it seems to fit puzzles and you just simply follow that way?

You see? That is one of the points of this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums FYI, there are tons of enlightenment sources within Western philosophy and intellectual history.

It's got nothing to do with East or West.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dominik Drums I just try to understand the information and then find a way to use it in pratice if it's important to the goals i want to accomplish(actualized.org isn't the only place I use  if i need information for the goals i want to acomplish but it has a lot of valuable information for personal development)

but this is also what responsibility means you are responsible for the action/decisions etc you take on your own which is what leo said you should agree to do if you use the things he says in the videos

Edited by BjarkeT

No more victim mentality. 

Every single problem in my life is my responsibility no matter how hard it is.

“It’s not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me” Batman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now