5 Meo Dmt Trip Experiencing Evil

[KPAVLOV]

I was always looking for truth, why am I here and where did I came from. My trip for truth broth me to video by Leo about 5 MEO DMT.  
I am practising meditation and did some experimenting with hallucinogens. ( One trip on magic mashroom ) 
Few months ago I had a trip on 5 MEO DMT that Leo was talking about and had a horrific trip. Complete session was organised by shaman from Mexico in London and there were 10 people on the session but session was individual one on one with shaman. 
Everybody was naturally nervous before session and when I was supposed to go triping I remember my coment to shaman. " I feel peaceful and I am not afraid of ingesting 5MEO DMT and that's whats frightening me". 
I ingested 100 miligrams vapored cristal through my mouth and was keeping my breath for 7 seconds. After that I was supposed count to 10. Nobody before me succeeded to count more than 5 but I was counting 11,12... 
The white light started filling the space and I had feeling of I am, with no body. 
My ego, or me was supposed to die if I wanted to experience my real nature or God but that didn't happened and I wake up in few minutes. After 10-15 minutes shaman gave me 250 milligrams dose that he uses and he had over 2000 trips. As I remember white light again filled space and heard music that was playing in room. At the beginning I was waiting what will happened but after some time thoughts started coming of how everybody else had more or less deep and positive experience and maybe something is wrong with me or my experience. Than my mind started to melt and I felt I am losing my mind. I was thinking how this is reality and my whole life is just a dream where I found wake up pill and now I was awake and it wasn't nice. The thoughts of me growing up and how my parents raised me came to my mind and now if I ever wake up from this I will be crazy or something and be their burden for rest of my life. ( You can not be attached to this life or what will happened with you if you or your ego are suppose to die ) 
After that I fell I was falling and I felt ancient evil around me and in that moment I heard voice not so audial but more like thought " You wanted enlightenment but now you are going to experience something opposite of that " and in that moment I realised I am not surrounded by evil  but I personally am evil myself. After that I woke up and was so happy because of that.
My trip lasted 5-6 minutes and shaman thought before I told him my story that I have never left.   

Usually 5 MEO DMT trip lasts 20 min - 1 hour and my trip with hi dose was only 5-6 min and it was terrifying. 

10 days after that I had some deep life insights about fear and that fear is to mind the same thing as pain is to physical body. It is not good or bad but it is just signal that your mind or you is sick on that area where you feel fear.  

Leo is talking about evil and Devil in his last video and that we are Devil ourselves as our mask or ego. 

I think I had first hand experience of that on my trip. 

Even I tried to let go of my ego in my 5 MEO DMT trip I couldn't do it and keeping my ego alive ended in horrific trip that afterwords made me think deeper about my life. 

I hope I will try 5 MEO DMT again but I have feeling first I need change something in my life. 

By that I mean to be more courageous and pushing against my fears in everyday life.  I honestly bellive I am good person towards others and maybe being that I am not good person towards myself or maybe God who experiences this life through me.

Maybe that's true and maybe my mind is laying to me or I am laying to myself. I don't know. 

Any simmillar experiences?

Any suggestions what to do next except meditation, introspection ...  ( I am practising that )

Kris  

Edited September 25, 2017 by KPAVLOV
gramar

[AlwaysBeNice]

Sounds like a successful trip to me.

You see what your problem was right? Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts and believing in them.

You were shown your mind, the deeper part of it, related to death.

If you want to be free from it you have to learn to let go of these thoughts and this identity that was build around it, just like everyone else, which happens through learning to love, be emotionally open, studying wisdom, introspection(self-inquiry), meditation, mindfulness, being with a good teacher.

You can try and do it without standing still, being passionate in life and in love, but if that would be done be done (for a large part) to avoid yourself, life will do what it takes to get you to pay attention, out of love, for your own sake.

[Leo Gura]

@KPAVLOV It takes a lot of consistent tripping over a long period of time to make sense of things. One or two high-dose trips is not gonna fly. You're asking the mind the make sense of things which are way beyond it. It's possible, but only with consistent inquiry and more tripping on less powerful psychedelics.

When you take yourself too far too fast, bad trips become likely because your mind is totally overwhelmed.

Smoked 5-MeO is too fast and too powerful for good understanding. LSD or AL-LAD is better for that. Or at least snorted 5-MeO.

Smoked 5-MeO trips do not last 60 minutes. They last about 5-15 minutes. Snorted lasts 45 mins tops.

The less consciousness work, the less existential thinking you've done, the less you're gonna be able to make sense of a 5 minute DMT trip.

Sounds like in that trip you went up against what I call the insanity threshold -- that point when you realize that if you go any further it will turn into literal insanity. That's a difficult one for the mind to stomach. But past that threshold is the best stuff. In future trips you can learn to surrender to it and go deeper.

[Nahm]

@KPAVLOV that is terrible but thanks just the same for sharing! 

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura How does one learn how to surrender to the insanity threshold? Does it just come with experience or is there a tecnique?

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv The "technique" is being committed to walking this entire path of truth and growth for the sake of pure understanding.

If you have that as your core intent, then everything else will fall into place. You will naturally trip consistently, you will naturally seek out the right teachings, you will naturally experiment with diverse substances, you will naturally inquire, you will naturally sacrifice ego for truth, you will naturally return for more even after a bad trip or some backsliding, you will naturally take time to integrate your experiences, you will naturally not break protocol.

[Leo Gura]

@unknownworld It will overwhelm the mind regardless.

The point of understanding it is so that you integrate the insight and have it change your everyday consciousness. Just having a big trip and not understanding what happened will leave you no better off than before after you come back.

No, I haven't smoked it. Snorting has been powerful as fuck enough for me. I barely want to snort it ever again. It's ridiculously powerful.

If a regular person smoked it, I can see them getting nothing out of it. Because it would be overkill. It's much more effective to slowly peel back the onion, from my experiences with tripping.

[Joseph Maynor]

I've experimented with some psychedelics after my big Salvia trip a couple of weeks ago, and I can say that there's a big difference with experiencing psychedelic effects and having a full blown ego-death experience.  You gotta have the full-bore experience for it to mean something, and you gotta have the theory grokked to make sense of it after you come out of it.  But just seeing some trails and lightly tripping is not the same thing as dying, I can tell you.  Psychological ego-death is what changed me.  And it was scary.  It's friggin scary!  But then, I discovered that I am already dead and that death is beautiful too, which were some cool takeaways.  I even tried Salvia again, but the strain I got was nowhere near as strong as the first batch I got, so my trips were like kindergarten compared to the massive one I had a couple of weeks ago.  So, you gotta have the balls or the ovaries to actually experience psychological death, or else it is just like smoking pot or something like that.  I'm not pooh-poohing that, it could be useful.  But it ain't the life-altering experiencing of a true ego-death experience I can tell you.  So, don't think that just because you tripped once or twice you experienced ego-death.  Ego-death is the experience of psychological death, and when you are going through it you actually believe you are dying.  So, it is scary as shit.  Sitting around seeing visuals and eating biscotti and drinking coffee is not gonna be like a true ego-death experience.  If you died and came back, you'll know it, that's for sure.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[jjer94]

@Joseph Maynor Dude. Take it easy on the psychedelics! No more than one trip every two weeks, ideally one trip per month. 

The most important part of the trip is what you can take away from it - the integration phase after the trip. Integration can take several days or even weeks. But if you're tripping, like, every other day, which is what it seems like you're doing, you won't be able to glean any juicy insights from them. Instead, psychedelics will just become another addiction, done for the sake of the high rather than the sake of truth.

Also, it's simply not good for the psyche to trip with such frequency. You run the risk of some serious neurological damage down the road.

I say all of this not with an aire of superiority, but as a fellow psychonaut. All the best.

[KPAVLOV]

Thanks on your comments. 

The good things about my trip is that I got lots of deep insights thinking about it next week or two after the trip. 

I had insights about what is fear and that it is just showing you way to be free if you go through it and integrate it. The opposite force of fear is courage and it is nothing but belief that everything will be ok whatever happens. Courage is actually something like belief in god, not like Christian belief in theory but more like practical belief or belief in action. 

My cousins grandmother that passed away few years ago was praying every day for one hour last 20-30 years but when time came to die from old age she couldn't do it so easily. She was dying almost 6 months and whenever she was almost dead she came back and doctors couldn't believe it. She believed all that about Christ and paradise but not 100%. 

U feel great urge to know truth and that can be done only by experience and not by trusting what someone sad or wrote. 

Even if 7 billion people told you something is truth it wouldn't have impact on your core and it wouldn't change you a bit. Only you experiencing it can do that so there is no other way except continue with self discovery.  

After my trip shaman told me to try something that is slower next time and he suggested Psilohuasca so my mind has enough time to let go because 250mg of 5 MEO DMT just 15 minutes after I ingested 100 mg of it may be overkill for unexperienced ego like mine  . 

I thought he was kidding with me after my trip but I found it is not a joke. It is mix of Psilocin containing mushrooms and a MAO inhibiting plant source if somebody doesn't know.

If somebody is interested I found some info on internet about it http://www.psilohuasca.com/ 

I haven't experienced ego death on my trip and I think its next stage after loosing mind ( according to Leos video of his scary mushrooms trip after he tried 5 MEO DMT ) and I didn't break thorough this stage, but trust me the consequence of that is the far biggest fear I have experienced in my life and that's experience that I was evil myself.

Its not that I have ended in hell but that I am hell. I was probably shown that for a reason to change something in my life and I will do that whatever it takes. 

I will trip in the future but I need some time to understand and ground this last one before I continue. 

Thank you everybody for your comments. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by KPAVLOV
gramar

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@unknownworld

It's much more effective to slowly peel back the onion, from my experiences with tripping.

I'm unsure which is more effective: less frequent high dose trips or more frequent low dose trips. The high dose trips seemed impactful, yet often filled with anxiety, confusion and the bizarre. The last four months, I've just done relatively low dosages of lysergics or tryptamines every two weeks (usually 15-20mg of a 4-aco-dmt:4-aco-met mix). I usually just walk or sit solo in nature. The ego seems to diffuse and there is a sense of presence, of being, of oneness. Interactions with plants, insects, animals and people seem to flow naturally. There is fascination and awe. There is a different perspective of the ego, It becomes clear how some of my recent behaviors were motivated by insecurities or fear. . . The short notes to "myself" have a similar theme: "Pay attention and be aware, the world is fascinating. Let go of rules and beliefs, surrender and just be.". Later that week, I often feel more connected and empathetic with others and life flows better. When I return to the Nature Center, sometimes thoughts settle down and I sort-of return to that trip space - and have even thought "Am I tripping? Is this some type of flashback?". . . 

The thing is. . . I *really* like this tripping space. It feels so natural and effortless. It doesn't feel like an escape, it feels like "me".  Yet, I have this belief that introspection is hard work and needs effort and discipline, like sitting meditation. Is this type of low dose trip slowly peeling an onion layer? . . . Is it effective to stay with a substance and dose that appears to be effective? Or, would be more effective to mix up substances and dosages for varied trips?

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Serotoninluv
Should be 15-20mg not ug

[Joseph Maynor]

@Serotoninluv The high doses are scary because the ego dies and the ego does not want to die.  So, the scary is good.  Once you surrender to it, you just observe the ego die.  But if you fight it, God help you!  I can't imagine what's it's like to fight it.  Come to think about it, I don't think I had a choice -- I was quite paralyzed throughout most of the trip.  If you notice that you are going to the great beyond, just surrender to it.  Let the death happen.  You'll see the ego die right before you.  It's amazing.  It's like seeing and feeling a computer simulation die.  It's downright scary, eye-opening, and beautiful at the same time.  With Salvia, on a couple of subsequent trips, I had the odd sensation that I could drop to the floor and die at anytime, but that it was optional.  Like the heaviness of death was looming on me.  That was very scary.  I even started to chant I love the ego, I love the ego, I love the ego!  I didn't want to die again!  No joke.

This is funny, I got it from the Wikipedia page on Salvia.  I can relate.  This is a cross-species relation!  Shit is scary!  And transforming.

"You can give a rat free access to cocaine, give them free access to Salvinorin A, and they stop taking cocaine.

— Masis 2007-02-28 (US Media)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

Edited September 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Highest]

There is no way to explain it, but I meet the devil face to face. I know what we call the devil is, it can also be said to be the ego itself, it is inside us as ourselves. It was after this that I was instituted and diagnosed with psychosis. It was this dark shadow moving me with force, and having it destroyed by this woman I was with (my head literally was spinning around, putting this dark shadow down my stomach). The experience was more real than reality itself, it felt terrifying and it all happened without any dmt etc. It was after this that I was instituted and diagnosed with psychosis and now trying to come back to normal reality and grow from it. But I had done spirituality for over 1 year before that + smoking weed almost everyday. It is not delusion, it is more real than reality itself, anyone who denies pure experience is the deluded himself, which most human beings are. We do not know that there exists entities which are beyond description, that hell and afterlife exists, that God is real, but what if all that is true? 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I'm unsure which is more effective: less frequent high dose trips or more frequent low dose trips. 

I don't consider 15-20ug of LSD a low-dose trip. That's a micro-dose.

There is a big difference between, say, 20ug of LSD, 100ug of LSD, 200ug of LSD, 30mg of 5-MeO snorted, and finally 20mg of 5-MeO smoked.

Each one of those is like a whole order of magnitude larger than the previous.

I'm not scared of doing 100ug of LSD. 200ug is a bit scary but still alright. But 30mg of 5-MeO snorted is a frightening thing when you understand ahead of time what's coming.

150-200ug of AL-LAD is prefect for me for doing serious consciousness. If 5-MeO could last for 6 hours, it would be much better for consciousness work. But the problem is, it only lasts 30 mins.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't consider 15-20ug of LSD a low-dose trip. That's a micro-dose.

There is a big difference between, say, 20ug of LSD, 100ug of LSD, 200ug of LSD, 30mg of 5-MeO snorted, and 20mg of 5-MeO smoked.

Each one of those is like a whole order of magnitude larger than the previous.

I'm not scared of doing 100ug of LSD. 200ug is a bit scary but still alright. But 30mg of 5-MeO snorted is a frightening thing when you understand ahead of time what's coming.

Whoops, that was a typo. I meant to write 15-20mg of 4-aco-dmt - which is equivalent to about 100ug of LSD.

[egoless]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't consider 15-20ug of LSD a low-dose trip. That's a micro-dose.

There is a big difference between, say, 20ug of LSD, 100ug of LSD, 200ug of LSD, 30mg of 5-MeO snorted, and finally 20mg of 5-MeO smoked.

Each one of those is like a whole order of magnitude larger than the previous.

I'm not scared of doing 100ug of LSD. 200ug is a bit scary but still alright. But 30mg of 5-MeO snorted is a frightening thing when you understand ahead of time what's coming.

150-200ug of AL-LAD is prefect for me for doing serious consciousness. If 5-MeO could last for 6 hours, it would be much better for consciousness work. But the problem is, it only lasts 30 mins.

Is mushroom best way to introduce myself to psychedelics? And is it totally safe to fully surrender to shroom trip and later when I try 5MEo trip? Can someone really die or go insane if he fully surrenders?

Edited September 26, 2017 by egoless

[JustinS]

@Leo Gura  It could last for 3 hours if you did some mushrooms right after or the day after 5MeO. Though its probably unknown territory. 

[Leo Gura]

@unknownworld I got nothing against smoking it.

I just find snorting it powerful enough already. I never come back from a 5-MeO snort thinking to myself: "You know... that was just too weak. I could have used a stronger dose."

A lot of trip reports I read from people who smoke it show that they come back not knowing what the hell happened, and their consciousness basically remains the same. Understanding what you're experiencing is very important. It's the most important part of the trip IMO. If you really understand it, you will be able to "see it" during regular life.

[pluto]

Many people mention that really high dose mushrooms is quite similar to DMT eventually they both show/teach you what you need to see/learn at that moment in your life where LSD and others similar are more in the drivers seat and you can control the direction in which the trip goes and what you want to gain out of it but i believe Mushrooms/DMT show you what you "need" to see. In a nutshell

[Nahm]

I can hear something and not learn it, I can learn something and not know it, I can know something and not realize it, I can realize something and not transcend it, I can even transcend something and not be aware of it. To me, aiding & solidifying this 'path' of transcending experiences and expanding the awareness is what psychedelics are for. The foundation and the trip are equal parts of the spiritual process if one is to be changed by it. Paradoxically, this leads to the transcendence of the very one having the experiences. And then, paradoxically, one is the One.