If you self-identify with any upper SD stage, you're CRINGE

[Sincerity]

28 minutes ago, AION said:

Personally I reached tier 3 and I discovered that it is useless to discuss these things with regular humans.

💀

Never change, please. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Sincerity

[Salvijus]

[Heaven]

But Leo..

Just solve this discussion by marking our username with the color we are on the Spiral

[something_else]

 

Quote

But that's not what's happening when people diagnose developmental stages. Pointing out common Stage Green patterns such as egalitarian flattening, conflict-avoidance, or moralistic outrage is a useful diagnostic tool. It’s analyzing the cognitive architecture behind an argument. 

Diagnosing someone's developmental stages can also be quite cringe. It comes across as patronising. Because SD is hierarchal, when you are 'diagnosing' someone with Stage Green blindspots the implication is that you are more developed than them as a person, even if that's not the intention. Obviously that annoys people. If the goal is to help them develop, that's likely a bad strategy. It's better to just point out the flaws in reasoning without actually labelling them as 'Stage green blindspots'.

One of the capacities associated with Yellow is being able to understand people operating from different value systems and communicate in a way that makes sense within their frame. That means showing someone the limitations of their thinking without constantly pointing out, or implying, that they’re lower down the spiral than you.

14 hours ago, LordFall said:

But Spiral Dynamics is explicitly a hierarchical model of cognitive capacity and systemic awareness. Clare Graves and Ken Wilber were clear: Tier 2 is not just "another equal lens to pick from the buffet." Tier 2 represents a massive leap in systemic bandwidth because it is the first tier that can consciously perceive, hold, and integrate all previous stages without being trapped by their dogmas. 

Stage Green fundamentally cannot understand Stage Yellow mechanics. It reflexively interprets Yellow's functional hierarchies and cold pragmatic calculations as "heartless, selfish Stage Orange." Meanwhile, Stage Yellow understands Stage Green completely, recognizes where its empathy is valuable, but also clearly sees its fatal blind spots: its allergy to competence hierarchies, its economic illiteracy, and its tendency toward spiritual bypassing.

If we are talking about the stages theoretically and discretely I think this is valid. But their expressions in practice are never discrete, people exist on a continuous spectrum across the spiral. There's a reason the term used to describe someone's level of development is "centre of gravity is around stage green" rather than someone "is stage green". People may have aspects of stage yellow in their development even if their centre of gravity is around green.

If you are operating from the perspective of "I am yellow and they are green, therefore I am more developed across all domains of life than them" then you are using the model wrong.

Check out the document below, it has shit formatting but I can't find the better version. Cowan specifically warns about people identifying too strongly with Tier 2, and argues that the need to proclaim yourself as Tier 2 can itself display traits that are at odds with what Tier 2 is supposed to represent. He also warns about it becoming a status symbol, and about using the model to look down on people as less developed because they aren’t on the same “Tier 2” plane as you.

https://spiraldynamics-integral.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Cowan-Christopher-First-and-Second-Tier.pdf

Quote

I rarely see deep multi-perspectival points based on a deep understanding or even quest to understand the systems of reality being posted here. It happens but is rare.

I agree that you rarely see people posting on a quest to develop a deep understanding of systems here, but that's hardly surprising. You're ultimately just very unlikely to develop that kind of understanding from a forum debate, and this place is rife with high-level shit-posting and intellectual sparring to boost one's own ego. I'm far from immune to that, in fact I enjoy it.

Aside from that the forum is also really good for giving and receiving more practical advice. But the higher level stuff just isn't something that can be absorbed very well in this format because it doesn't capture attention well enough to keep the thread popular, so people stop posting that kind of content.

Quote

Stage orange are pretty obviously shallow in their points but the format for stage green posts is also pretty basic it goes "my ego dislikes X or Y". Rarely do you see people use systems thinking properly to connect various ideas together and produce unique insights as a result. Do you disagree with this?

I don't really agree with this. I see plenty of people making interesting points across the spiral here. I feel like this demonstrates the issue with building an identity around tier 2. Rather than acknowledge that someone from any level of development may have interesting ideas, you are flattening them all down into caricatures of their development stage.

[Ulax]

When you reach tier 3 and tier 4 you really come to understand yourself as part of a system and transcend the ordinary realms of thinking.

Such that I do not even associate myself with Ulax. Instead I have transcended that identity. So when I associate Ulax with a stage, I am associating a certain handsome being with being tier 3/ coral. Often I simply forget that that is my identity as I have become so transcendent in my thinking.

It is hard to explain to lower stages. It must be experienced to be understood.

But the spirally challenged stages have my sympathies. And I am here to talk if the spirally challenged need emotional support ♥️

[CARDOZZO]

Nah, I'm Coral going to ascend to Tier 3 where hot witches just fall on my lap.

[Zenterus]

@Ulax is the only person on the forum who I've consistently seen exhibit Tier 3 and 4 level thinking without contradiction. @Leo Gura himself privately confided in me that he often reaches out to @Ulax for advice and to validate his awakenings.

Edited 16 hours ago by Zenterus

[AION]

4 hours ago, Sincerity said:

💀

Never change, please. 

Well I did. You have to get your tier 1 ass to Ulax to be teabagged by his tier 3 wisdom.  

[Ramanujan]

 the higher stage you get , the more humble you become

[Miguel1]

What the fuck is up with all the trolling lately?

Even our God tier moderator went mad 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

What the fuck is up with all the trolling lately?

Even our God tier moderator went mad 

I'm not sure man.  Maybe this is your assessment.  

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Zenterus said:

. @Leo Gura himself privately confided in me that he often reaches out to @Ulax for advice and to validate his awakenings.

This is a lie.

[Leo Gura]

If you guys cannot keep this thread civil, I am going to lock it.

[VioleGrace]

On 23/09/2026 at 9:42 AM, Zenterus said:

Spiral Dynamics is a useful model for tracking maturity in human beings, I am not disputing that. It's not a perfect model, as no model ever is, but it is definitely very sophisticated.

However, I see so many people on this forum not only misunderstanding it and taking it as absolute fact, but also falsely assigning certain higher stages to themselves, which is such an egoic thing to do and completely antithetical to being a mature person, honestly.

People out here spouting "I'm a system's thinker, therefore I'm Yellow!" Meanwhile their entire motivation is founded in the thirst for power, sex, influence and other selfish stage orange pursuits. 

Others are yelling out atop rooftops that they're Turquoise or whatever while being so inherently judgemental of everyone around them and at the same time aggrandizing themselves in comparison. 

Even worse, I see so many people labelling others who disagree with them as being in lower stages and needing to ascend, which is so cringey in and of itself.

Know this: If you're out here self identifying yourself as tier 2 and creating an ego around it, you're probably lower on the spiral than you'd want to admit.

 

Totally agreed about what you are saying here it is cringey and obvious

[oOo]

No one has yet to even cite one clear example of someone that does the things the thread (edit) creator is talking about.

Not even one. 

Instead there's mostly just reinforcing of one another's meta-beliefs around the thread.

It's just an ego bubble mergence now in this thread; aka, reflective of the sycophantic cesspool I diagnosed the forum with.

And the fact that people get uncomfortable with me pointing out these realities, without providing sensible argument for otherwise is evidence of this.

Reality Check: The problem with the forum is the lack of critical thinking and the misuse of models because of that lack of critical thinking.

The forum must improve in conversing with one another's identities, not getting butt-hurt, finding other butt-hurt people and then forging an intersubjective reality to massage that butt-hurt or seep into some other form of denial. 

The fact that people struggle to talk plainly to one another with evidence, examples and sensible reflections pertaining to is evidence of such.

I am not going to submit to a lack of truth, I bend to no one.

People are free to discuss as they please, as I said, I couldn't personally care what anyone thinks of me, but they're pretending to engage with reality rather than discussing it with self-honesty thereby only reinforcing further unhealthy forum patterns. 

Edited 6 hours ago by oOo

[eos_nyxia]

Is this type of thing really necessary though? 

I can be pretty blunt myself, and I get the urge to fight and argue. But I also just assume that if people wanted to approach things more collaboratively, they would treat people respectfully rather than be super condescending because the "Truth" compels them to do so. 

 

Sigh. Just give everyone a gold medal already lol. 

We can all be #1!!! 

[Leo Gura]

"Truth compels me to be a jerk!"

But is that true?

[Joseph Maynor]

12 hours ago, Ramanujan said:

 the higher stage you get , the more humble you become

Actually, what happens is you can access the entire spiral.  But yes, you generally prefer to operate at a higher stage.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

"Truth compels me to be a jerk!"

But is that true?

Fucken worth investigating, ay. 

Feelings are treated as sacred. "I'm just expressing my authentic feeling". "I am expressing so I don't repress" 

Meanwhile, 90% of these "feelings" are based on a narrative and interpretations of events constructed, totally divorced from what can be observed. Free of interpretation. 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Ramanujan]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Actually, what happens is you can access the entire spiral.  But yes, you generally prefer to operate at a higher stage.  

i mean , you wont try to bragg off the high stage you are in.  if someone is yellow , they wont try to bragg off that they are yellow. they will be humble