If you self-identify with any upper SD stage, you're CRINGE

[LordFall]

@oOo Demanding that everyone uncritically accept your self-assigned Stage Coral label while declaring any external evaluation "manipulative" is the exact definition of a closed ego loop. When high-stage claims can't survive basic inquiry or produce a single tangible real-world purpose, the diagnosis writes itself.

[oOo]

24 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@oOo Demanding that everyone uncritically accept your self-assigned Stage Coral label while declaring any external evaluation "manipulative" is the exact definition of a closed ego loop. When high-stage claims can't survive basic inquiry or produce a single tangible real-world purpose, the diagnosis writes itself.

Again, very interesting behaviour I am observing.

I'll take the time to compress things here with a follow-up.

1. "Demanding that everyone uncritically accept your self-assigned Stage Coral label"

= State where I made the demand either implicitly with any of my words or explicitly, or accept that you're trying to manipulate discourse.

To the contrary, at the end of my response I clearly stated very plainly "people are free to state as they please." 

Are you able to accept this contradiction of your follow-up assessment, or do you feel the urge to double down on your own opinion? 

 

2. "declaring any external evaluation "manipulative" is the exact definition of a closed ego loop."

Do you see the manipulation with this statement?

In fact I invited any further reflections on anything I stated with the assumption that dialogue would be done with intellectual dishonesty - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_honesty .

If I am inaccurate with my assessment so far, can you point out which attribute according to intellectual honesty here that I am not exhibiting? Can you see your own at present relative to what I have stated in this comment, where you may need correcting? 

 

3. "is the exact definition of a closed ego loop"

To the contrary, do you see how you are in fact the one stuck in your own? I am open to alternative interpretations, evidence and facts. I have also offered interpretations that are offered based on evidence and facts, while not cherry picking but instead taking a comment as it is presented as a whole while discussing the mechanics, as I requested others do when wishing to further examine anything I had stated in forming an accurate judgement. 

 

4. "When high-stage claims can't survive basic inquiry or produce a single tangible real-world purpose, the diagnosis writes itself."

And what has your inquiry thus far reflected, to date? And speaking of survival, upon which traits of intellectual honesty have your inquiries survived?

For example let's go to 5 now.

5. high-stage claims

I never actually intended to make an external claim, it was an internal judgement, relative to what I understand relative to a cultural interpretation of myself. Moreover, based on your examinations to date, by stating "high stage claims" it reveals you're treating this more from a competitive interpersonal frame more than a developmental relationship to reality. 

I am not expecting you to suddenly reveal all traits of intellectual honesty, though it would certainly help if you at least gave it ago, if not for the interaction, yourself.

Apologies if I sound condescending, but at the same time I express that unapologetically in that you're just now wasting time as you have done in other interactions on the forum rather than being genuine in trying to break meaningful ground. 

Even better, you don't even have to try and mirror the traits in and of themselves, I am just asking for a little self-awareness here that would benefit any reader trying to interpret the underlying truth of the interaction.

@LordFall We don’t need agreement on my self-assessment. I explained what the label means to me; nobody else is obliged to accept it.

If you or anyone happens to be triggered by anything I have stated, too there, I apologise but there is no need to. I don't mean as well to make any interpretation of you as fact, only based upon the facts at the time. I have clearly detailed contradictions in your statements, you haven't meaningfully found any in mind outside of misplacing context.

We’ve moved from discussing a model to making judgments about one another. I can acknowledge my contribution to that without accepting your broader conclusions about me. There’s enough here to reflect on, and nothing I need to settle by continuing the exchange. I’ll leave it here. All the best.

 

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, integration journey said:

How dare you. 

 

[Ulax]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

[Olaf]

@Zenterus this spiral dynamics topic can become a whole ego game on itself, just like what you're personality type is or you're zodiac sign or you're birth card is, it is almost like the same stuff as reading tarot cards, if it is true or not, it doesn't really matter in my opinion, what do we get from it? In this case on this forum we get endless hierarchy games, spiritual ego battles where one is more spiritual then the other in stage green or yellow, which is just a waste of time. I rather not talk about it at all, maybe think about it in my daily life, but not classify someone in any type of stage. Besides that there is very much to blame on the society for which stage anyone is at, someone born in a third world country will have a much harder time developing and we are for a big part a product of our environment.

[Carl-Richard]

Stage Yellow people and above know that Stage Word Salad goes on the ignore list.

[Joseph Maynor]

God forbid anyone create a finite self that is self-developing.  That would be impossible LOL.  

[Jirh]

Brain color is beige.

We're all retarded.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

43 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Stage Yellow people and above know that Stage Word Salad goes on the ignore list.

When I have to work extremely hard to separate the useful conceptual content from the performance I tend to lose all desire to interact.

There is a lot of skill involved in effective communication. Much less so in stream of consciousness text output where we flirt with simile & metaphor in an increasingly recursive manner.

Especially if we want to actually have others TRY to understand us. Instead of remain on our pedestal of "I am too above everyone to be understood".

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

When I have to work extremely hard to separate the useful conceptual content from the performance I tend to lose all desire to interact.

There is a lot of skill involved in effective communication. Much less so in stream of consciousness text output where we flirt with simile & metaphor in an increasingly recursive manner.

Especially if we want to actually have others TRY to understand us. Instead of remain on our pedestal of "I am too above everyone to be understood".

I think what are really doing is just sharing our own perspectives.

[Zenterus]

9 hours ago, oOo said:

Trying to strap me to the bed with a whip isn't going to do anything more other than showing that you have some gay fetish towards me; 

And what if I do, babyboy?

[integration journey]

Stage yellow maxxing over here 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Especially if we want to actually have others TRY to understand us. Instead of remain on our pedestal of "I am too above everyone to be understood".

True word salad (the "intellectual" kind, not born in psychosis) cannot come from a sincere expression of one's own understanding. It comes from insecurity about how you're perceived by others, and you will in fact discount your own understanding to potentially gain that perception by others (and in a way, it makes you psychotic). The thinking is "if I can put it simply, if I can understand it perfectly clear, then other people might think I come off as simple, so I have to make myself more complicated / less understandable so that I come off as complicated instead".

So if you have the balls to come off like a simpleton, or if you really try your best to say things that are completely simple and clear to you, you'll basically be immune towards "intellectual" word salad. But of course, you can think something like that is word salad if you simply lack understanding. But that's not actually word salad. Because at least somebody truly thinks it's simple and clear.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, Zenterus said:

And what if I do, babyboy?

lmao

[Zenterus]

It is inherently pointless to engage in discussion with those of you who already have an ego identity around your spiral dynamics stage.

You're so identified with it that me calling you out is almost like a personal offence. Therefore, you will try to debate me, and get me to logically break it down for you with examples, analogies and justifications, while you rigorously scan my statements for fallacy and inconsistency. And your prayers will inadvertently be answered cause, even though Im a humbly perfect specimen of a man, I dont care to sit down and formulate an entire analysis of your psychological make-up while going through your infinite post history in order to find quotes to justify my claims.

However, let's say that I do feel generous enough to grace you with that level of effort and provide you with a fool-proof thesis; what happens then? Will you throw your hands up and concede that all the years you've spent propping yourself up and inflating your own sense of superiority to others was an absolute delusion? 

Will you kneel before me, your Lord and Saviour, and open your mouths wide to receive divine, humble, non-homoerotic punishment from yours truly for your transgressions of doubt? Of course not!

You will fight tooth and nail to avoid enduring such ego-death -- if a thesis from a random forum member could even be powerful enough to inspire it. You will rationalize, debate me to death, call me a narcissist (which is absolutely baseless) and ask for more evidence for you to desperately scan and attempt to poke holes in.

It's useless to engage.

I merely expressed what I observed, others seem to have observed the same. Those of you who disagree and feel called out, debate amongst yourselves.

My last thought is this: If a majority of people around you are calling you annoying or an asshole or, even, kind, you probably are exactly that, no matter what you think of yourself.

Edited 2 hours ago by Zenterus

[eos_nyxia]

@Zenterus Over the years here, I've noticed people weaponizing Spiral Dynamics and it had left an ugly taste in my mouth. I used to find it a bit irritating, and now I think it's free entertainment if I'm in a certain mood! (Sorry to whoever here is taking being this stage or that stage super seriously lol.)

Quote

However, I see so many people on this forum not only misunderstanding it and taking it as absolute fact, but also falsely assigning certain higher stages to themselves, which is such an egoic thing to do and completely antithetical to being a mature person, honestly.

The Rule is, according to pretty standard human social practice and expectations, that saying that you are A Certain Thing means that you are Not That Thing by definition. In fact, you are kind of a loser for saying it aloud, because you've now flagged people to hyperfocus on whatever incongruencies they might perceive in you. This being a niche interest community doesn't make this particular preference any different. 

(Also, people expecting other people to both accept and enjoy being talked down to. Like what?)

Quote

People out here spouting "I'm a system's thinker, therefore I'm Yellow!" Meanwhile their entire motivation is founded in the thirst for power, sex, influence and other selfish stage orange pursuits. 

These hierarchical things don't really move me on a personal level, as in, I don't find it particularly relatable or useful, personally. Let's just say you've noticed certain traits in people and Spiral Dynamics helps you make sense of their aggregate traits.... fine. Why would you possibly need to perform extra judgements on top of that, if not to serve yourself in some way? At least ask yourself what you're actually getting from it all, not just in some generalized/ abstract/ conceptualized level, but in that one specific interaction with someone where you felt the need to say that specific thing.

Let's just say... there is something positive or constructive thing you could be doing with this model, or any other social model. Probably you should be asking yourself, what is it that I'm actually accomplishing, and is what I'm doing really that? You have to look both within yourself and outside yourself wholly and honestly...   

At the same time, I also feel like the people have spoken. Let them drink their yellow-orange kool-aid! Whatever makes them feel better about facing their own mortality the way everyone has to, one way or another. Whatever makes them sleep at night, etc. I actually don't at all mean this in bad faith and spirit either......  we call someone who has transcended (or transmuted) their base drives and fears a saint, but that saint, by definition, cannot care what you think about them at all. Or this. Or these models.

What can we do? People so often want the quality of being untouchable (or to be open only on our own terms and based only on our own preferences), but we don't care to be truly open. So we sometimes make up the pretense of seeking the prequalifier (the model(s) in question) and then wow!! We just so happen to fit those standards! It gives many that feeling of invulnerability and "being enough", at least for a while. The human condition, etc. 

Quote

Others are yelling out atop rooftops that they're Turquoise or whatever while being so inherently judgemental of everyone around them and at the same time aggrandizing themselves in comparison. 

Seems like this particular flavour of butting heads is mostly a dude thing. 

Also what even is this kind of behaviour? Is there no one available to assign you a grade dictating your self worth (school, your parents, various institutions, some random person on the internet who totally knows what they're talking about), that you would need to find a system do this to yourself? Is this about needing extra externalized structure to feel secure sort of thing?

Quote

Know this: If you're out here self identifying yourself as tier 2 and creating an ego around it, you're probably lower on the spiral than you'd want to admit.

I wonder if those people know that The Other Rule is that people who take you at face value (or at the very least wholesale agree with you) are even worse losers. 

Edited 3 hours ago by eos_nyxia

[AION]

Nobody on this forum as far as I can observe has seriously studied Ken Wilber. It is actually more accurate to talk about the lines of development because that makes up your average which is your spiral dynamics stage. A person can be cognitively SD Yellow and morally be SD red for example but to get a good perspective on somebody you need to chart all of his lines of developments. And there are like 7/8 cardinal lines of development which I won´t list here. Personally I reached tier 3 and I discovered that it is useless to discuss these things with regular humans. It is like a human talking to a chimp. The chimp can only imitate the mechanics but can´t understand the mind. Simply because his biology doesn´t support that kind of mind. And with body I mean the brain because you are basically laying the neutral infrastructure in your physical brain during your life time of development. Body and mind are intertwined too, upgrading your body, will upgrade your mind too. That is why physical fitness, work out, healthy foods and supplements, are essential. I´m mentally very developed but this year I´m going to focus on being physically developed to ground myself and be more well rounded person.  

Edited 2 hours ago by AION

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Zenterus

You're causing them to crash out.... Self reveal to defend themselves !!! Delicious! 

 

[Zenterus]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Zenterus

You're causing them to crash out.... Self reveal to defend themselves !!! Delicious! 

 

I'll be sure to add this feat to my LinkedIn. 😉

[JoshB]

On 9/23/2026 at 3:21 AM, Leo Gura said:

You're just jealous you ain't Triple Turquiose.

#TTT