Does body count matter for you?

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

You can have commitment at any level.

Blue can be extremely good at commitment. Blue is your grandparents who stayed together for 50+ years. So it's definitely not just a function of Green.

Green can actually struggle with commitment because it cares so much about its authentic expression, rather than making the sacrifices needed for commitment.

That's really bad if you say blue is good at committment.  I still can't figure it out LOL.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

You can have commitment at any level.

Blue can be extremely good at commitment. Blue is your grandparents who stayed together for 50+ years. So it's definitely not just a function of Green.

Green can actually struggle with commitment because it cares so much about its authentic expression, rather than making the sacrifices needed for commitment.

Ok now you are talking..Yeah, my grandparents were blue!  From the bronx and married all those years.  But here's where the model starts to die - my grandpa was not blue, he was far more advanced than that, though he had blue from his culture.

[aurum]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's really bad if you say blue is good at committment.  I still can't figure it out LOL.

Not necessarily though.

Because yes, Blue is good at commitment. But look at what it sacrifices for that commitment.

It requires radical self-repression and conformity.

Development is not straightforward, linear progress. It's a twisted, counter-intuitive process of evolving tradeoffs.

You're probably worse at commitment precisely because you came from a more developed culture than your grandparents.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

Not necessarily though.

Because yes, Blue is good at commitment. But look at what it sacrifices for that commitment.

It requires radical self-repression and conformity.

Development is not straightforward, linear progress. It's a twisted, counter-intuitive process of evolving tradeoffs.

You're probably worse at commitment precisely because you came from a more developed culture than your grandparents.

Well, ordinarily that would be true.  And I am appreciating your intelligence.  But the truth is I'm just a selfish bastard.

So..not sure what that means in spiral dynamics.

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[LordFall]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well, ordinarily that would be true.  And I am appreciating your intelligence.  But the truth is I'm just a selfish bastard.

So..not sure what that means in spiral dynamics.

What does that mean to you being a selfish bastard? Like you're not good at compromising? Can you give us some examples, I think that will help a lot to break it down. 

[something_else]

7 hours ago, LordFall said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Were these women into polyamory or were these girls that you picked up through game?

Also how did this open relationship progress, how long did it last and why did you guys break up? 

I never actually opened any of my long term relationships explicitly, but I hooked up with many girls who were in existing open relationships. Some of those girls were into the idea of polyamory obviously. I met most through the dating app Feeld, which is specifically for polyamory.

I guess in a sense I’ve had one because in my last relationship (really a situationship at the start) the girl really loved me, but I was in peak sexual exploration stage and I wanted to keep sleeping with other girls. She knew about it and said it was totally fine, which I ultimately knew was a lie. But it was very convenient for me to believe at the time so I didn’t question it. We did end up dating properly on and off for a few years. When I look back on how much I hurt her, it makes me feel awful.

Quote

I think open relationships make the relationship 3x more intense and there a lot of dynamics involved. A common trap I hear is after opening up the woman has a lot of the options and the man struggles to get laid, resents his partner and eventually tries to close the relationship and the woman now resents him for limiting her freedom and it falls apart. 

Intense is a bad thing for relationships. Intense is good for hookups and the honeymoon phase, but it will ruin a long term relationship, or your life if you’re in too deep.

And yes, read my response to @Inliytened1 after you, I describe seeing exactly the dynamic you mentioned here. It’s extremely common in open relationships. One partner is always going to get more attention outside the relationship than the other and that is going to create divides.

——

Theoretically, I think, if you found the perfect group of people you could construct a fairly ethical polyamorous setup that might be stable for a few years. Probably hippie-esque people who are very go with the flow and open, not super competitive or jealous. And yes, it’d probably be a lot of fun. But even that in the long run is going to become quite culty and unstable. Too intense. So much drama. So much time and energy managing such a complex situation. Just not sustainable.

The ones that seem stable are always going to have some underlying unethical power dynamic keeping everybody together. Like a cult leader, pimp, or a rich dude essentially paying for prostitution with extra steps.

[Valach]

49 minutes ago, something_else said:

Intense is a bad thing for relationships. Intense is good for hookups and the honeymoon phase, but it will ruin a long term relationship, or your life if you’re in too deep.

I really enjoy your takes on here. Thanks for that. In my experience also people who chase intense short term situations also kind of condition themselves out of sustaining long term relationships - If all you know and want is excitment, what are you gonna do when it wears off with your long term partner right?

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Valach said:

I really enjoy your takes on here. Thanks for that. In my experience also people who chase intense short term situations also kind of condition themselves out of sustaining long term relationships - If all you know and want is excitment, what are you gonna do when it wears off with your long term partner right?

Yea, this applies to me. I have pursued a lot of short term relationships and now I am quite avoidant and afraid to commit. I rationalise this by telling myself I'm just waiting for the perfect relationship, or the right time of my life. But deep down I know that's just an excuse to keep the high of the short term stuff going.

It's kind of chicken and egg, do short term relationships make you avoidant, or does being avoidant make you pursue short term relationships?

[Schizophonia]

What matters to me is whether the person satisfies my desires or needs here and now, everything else is hysteria.

 

[Valach]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Yea, this applies to me. I have pursued a lot of short term relationships and now I am quite avoidant and afraid to commit. I rationalise this by telling myself I'm just waiting for the perfect relationship, or the right time of my life. But deep down I know that's just an excuse to keep the high of the short term stuff going.

It's kind of chicken and egg, do short term relationships make you avoidant, or does being avoidant make you pursue short term relationships?

It is both interestingly enough. The "healthy people" (without me shaming you in any way, I struggle with the same) simply pair up fairly quickly and tend to stay in those relationships  so they never really get to sleeping around that much.
Then you have insecure attachment (avoidants mostly) who engage in casual sex way more which reinforces their beliefs. Seeking perfect partner, being stuck on ex from past etc. are all defensive mechanism from getting hurt. Fear of rejection is a core fear of all avoidants.

[Zenterus]

It depends. 

I never ask for a woman's body count, but if I stumbled upon a number, it would only affect my impression of her if it's absurdingly high. As long as its within a reasonable range then I don't really care. 

But as I said, I never ask such a question.

All I really care about is how she treats me, our chemistry, compatibility and potential future together.

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, LordFall said:

What does that mean to you being a selfish bastard? Like you're not good at compromising? Can you give us some examples, I think that will help a lot to break it down. 

I don't know.  The long term relationships have always failed because I end up choosing my own desires over them.  To make relationships work you have to really put the other person first and what they want.  Not all the time but at least some of the time and I just don' t do that.  I'm into my own routine, and working out, taking care of myself, and then whatever.  With a woman they want you to build stuff with them and not be self absorbed.  The irony is though, if you do that you kinda let yourself go and then they won't want ya anyway 

Edited 50 minutes ago by Inliytened1

[Valach]

14 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

It depends. 

I never ask for a woman's body count, but if I stumbled upon a number, it would only affect my impression of her if it's absurdingly high. As long as its within a reasonable range then I don't really care. 

But as I said, I never ask such a question.

All I really care about is how she treats me, our chemistry, compatibility and potential future together.

Curious what is absurdingly high number to you?

[something_else]

15 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

It depends. 

I never ask for a woman's body count, but if I stumbled upon a number, it would only affect my impression of her if it's absurdingly high. As long as its within a reasonable range then I don't really care. 

But as I said, I never ask such a question.

All I really care about is how she treats me, our chemistry, compatibility and potential future together.

Same, pretty much. I think this is the only reasonable approach to take as a guy if you've slept around a lot as well.

Although I have actually discussed body count with girls before, usually in situations where it's clearly short term. It's surprisingly common for girls to keep a Notes app list of all the guys they've slept with. Highest I've ever heard was 45. Unless you count "I don't know, I lost count" as higher.

[Zenterus]

@Valach Hard to say. Its one of those things that when a girl tells me, will be defined by how I feel about it in the moment. 

If I had to logically define my parameters though, if she slept with 50 people and she's 25 years old, I'd be like "Yikes.."

Im lenient, but I'd say if she's in her mid 20s, a maximum bodycount of 20 is at the high end of what I'd accept. 

Again, I never ask such things though, so i usually go by how she's behaving.

Edited 18 minutes ago by Zenterus

[Rishabh R]

Yup .