Ralston saying he took massive doses of LSD and it didn't raise C

[Beans]

2 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Ralston is the man, despite his closed mind on psychedelics, his teachings are kick ass.

also- idk why we are tripping out on Leo, he’s given Ralston his flowers plenty of times over

Hmm 

I’ve never heard of that guy, but if you say he’s interesting please share some of his work to me. 
tanks for your cooperation 

[Oppositionless]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Ralston's techniques were big for my development.

 

 

 

 

So maybe psychedelics are raising baseline consciousness from the opposite direction. Like running around a track from start to finish - meditation/self-enquiry is clockwise, psychedelics/self-enquiry anti-clockwise. Both are different paths, see perceive different stuff, but arrive at a similar destination.

Anyway just my 2c

How long have you been meditating , how consistently and what would you say your daily average has been.

I don't care much for daily practice but you make me reconsider... still if I'm doing daily practice I feel it should be minimum 4 hours (that's the amount they do at the Zen monastery an hour from me, during not retreat weeks). 
 

I meditate for like 20 minutes to an hour , one to three times a week. But I want to go to the monastery, once I make save up enough money to not work for 6 months +, and stay there until I achieve permanent awakening, smoking 5 meo dmt in my apartment on my days off(tues and wed during non retreat weeks are free) ,

Edited yesterday at 05:06 AM by Oppositionless

[Joshe]

I did psychedelics every weekend for 2 years. They didn’t raise my consciousness. My consciousness has always been expanding (which I assume is natural for those interested in the riddle of reality), and it still expands, even without psychedelics for 5 years.

What makes it expand is seeing that which was previously not seen, and understanding the mechanics of the vail - how it was hidden and how it came to not be hidden. That’s what expands consciousness, IME. And the “what” behind the vail is always my own mind. Psychedelics showed me some things about my mind but after a while, it’s a one-trick pony. 

One trap I can see clearly is some people will think they’re expanding their consciousness with psychedelics when in reality, all they’re doing is using the data from previous trips to construct even grander trips in the future, creating a feedback loop where trips become more pronounced and profound over time, which feels like conscious ascension, but in reality, your fleshing shit out sideways. 100% this is super common, and I wouldn’t rule out it being universal. 

You experience reality differently for a while because you’re discombobulated or traumatized or intensely perplexed. This does not = expanded consciousness. It’s easy to accumulate and stack these feelings and use them to trick yourself that they represent expanded consciousness. 
 

Edited yesterday at 05:39 AM by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Oppositionless

On and off for 5/6 years - more consistently in the last 2 years. I average 30-45 minutes a day. Split into 2 sessions. Weekends I always go for 2hrs on one of the days. There is more inside that you can only know or understand by doing the work - meditation or psychedelics. I don't draw conclusions, and it is hard to discount other's experiences after some of the states I have been in.

 

[AION]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you can. Just replace coffee with DMT. That's exactly how it works.

Btw, self-inquiry is just coffee.

Ralston acts like his retreats are not coffee but DMT is. But both are. There is no fundamental difference between attending a Ralston retreat vs smoking DMT. Only the DMT is more direct and powerful.

If Ralston's students had access to DMT Ralston would be out of a job.

Can everything he teaches, for example zen body being be learned from DMT? I doubt that. Since what he is teaching is skills. 

Edited yesterday at 06:54 AM by AION

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I do not know why I can reach such states with so much ease using meditation and self-enquiry. I guess it could be genetics, but it could also be how meta one is about their thinking and how sensitive body-perceiving faculties are. I have always been incredibly aware of HOW I was thinking. Training myself to observe the sequence of thoughts and how I was deriving conclusions.

Introverted intuition. Tryna tell ya! The top spiritual people all have it. I think it’s more nurture than nature, but not sure. You could have the potential and never develop it depending on circumstances. Trauma seems to be a catalyst. 

Edited yesterday at 05:57 AM by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

 

14 minutes ago, AION said:

Can everything he teaches in for example zen body being be learned from DMT? I doubt that. Since what he is teaching is kills 

Yeah, Ralston HEAVILY emphasis having a physical feedback practice to supplement the work. True in my experience. I sprint and distance run, and the emphasis on feedback and body sensation/response has been effective in the work.

I think a lot of Leo's perspective is that he has reached higher states than what Ralston claims. Maybe there are different things involved in the levels of consciousness Leo has reached? Unsure.

 

11 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Introverted intuition. Tryna tell ya! The top spiritual people all have it. I think it’s more nurture than nature, but not sure. You could have the potential and never develop it depending on circumstances. 

I am guessing you have some more examples/data points than me  I don't know anyone in real life who uses Ni !

Edited yesterday at 06:08 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[AION]

47 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

Yeah, Ralston HEAVILY emphasis having a physical feedback practice to supplement the work. True in my experience. I sprint and distance run, and the emphasis on feedback and body sensation/response has been effective in the work.

I think a lot of Leo's perspective is that he has reached higher states than what Ralston claims. Maybe there are different things involved in the levels of consciousness Leo has reached? Unsure.

 

I am guessing you have some more examples/data points than me  I don't know anyone in real life who uses Ni !

In the past I had bad connection with my body and I would do psychedelics and that would traumatize me. 

But now after studying Ralston my trips are much more harmonious because I can feel the air while I’m flying so to say. In the past I couldn’t and I would just crash. 

Ralston’s teaching is like learning to fly while Leo’s teaching is to just put on the jet pack and hope for the best lmao. 

Personally I’m leaning more towards Ralston’s approach. Consciousness steroids (DMT or else) should be taken with moderation. It shouldn’t be relied on. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Can everything he teaches, for example zen body being be learned from DMT?

Obviously not. That isn't the point.

No one says DMT will teach you how to clean your toilet.

[OBEler]

7 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

I thought you practiced self-inquiry/contemplation and meditation during your trips. Why then does it work so well for you and not for any hippie who smokes DMT? Could it be your genetics too?

It works very well on others too. I saw it first hands how my friends had one awakening after another and they basically say what Leo says without knowing him. They got the same insights. Not as deep as Leo now but they are just at the beginning.

Edited yesterday at 07:38 AM by OBEler

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Davino said:

The conversation is just so stupid I avoid to enter anymore. Only fools would hold such a view. 

If psychedelics don't raise consciousness, what they do? Nothing, they decrease it? Please come on!

Alter your state.

[Recursoinominado]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My genetics is a factor, but also I've done so much philosophical work, like 15 years worth.

Psychedelics work on most people. Most people just don't apply them seriously. They trip for fun a few times in their life. I turned psychedelica into a hardcare existential practice.

What hippie has done over 40 different  psychedelics over 500 times, combined with 15 years of deep contemplation?

But what do you do exactly during trips nowadays? 

[UnbornTao]

@Leo Gura

There's no way to direct - that's the fucking point!

It seems genetics is often used as a pretext to feel better about oneself and justify one's current position. The truth about this is that we don't know. To claim it's the only reason is ridiculous. It's a plausible explanation one might come up with after the fact. Nothing has to change in the relative world, it's true now.

About your second post - effective for what, exactly? I keep asking for a reason.

It's comforting to believe in the hopeful path that there's such a thing as a pill for this business.

The main assertion that's being overlooked or going over your heads is that a process can only be relative. You assume it is a relational, cause-and-effect ocurrence.

Edited 26 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[Joshe]

8 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I am guessing you have some more examples/data points than me  I don't know anyone in real life who uses Ni !

You know yourself - that’s the biggest data point for spotting Ni. IRL, me neither, but I have spotted it in others in books and on the internet. I can’t articulate how I spot them without spending 20 mins, but I saw it in a few people here - you and Emerald for example. 

Key hallmark is the ease with which they generate original insight with non-linear reasoning. More to it than that but I think that’s the broad pattern. It’s not just intelligence. There’s intelligence with something else. Something that can see without linear reason.

Edited 21 hours ago by Joshe

[Oeaohoo]

11 hours ago, zurew said:

Someone should troll Ralston by swapping his tea with ayahuasca

DM-Tea! 

[vibv]

17 hours ago, llumin said:

You are stepping into an ego trap the size of the Grand Canyon. Don't seek siddhis, don't trust someone just because of their attainment. If your journey is purely for the attainment of siddhis, they will never come - or, will be grossly misused should you get lucky. 

Siddhis are also a huge burden, you can't just use them like magic, that backfires enormously.

When you get it without being ready for it I'd rather call that unlucky.

[Breakingthewall]

For Ralston, enlightenment means realizing that you are now, without mental content. Therefore, any drug makes no difference; if any case it causes confusion. He doesn't understand that the now can open up, unfold in all its depth, and manifest its unfathomable living essence. He would call this nonsense, woo-woo, because he's a guy disconnected from the source. It's clear that there's a barrier between him and the living depth. Listening to him for 15 seconds, you can clearly see his vibration; it's superficial. He doesn't understand that psychedelics don't increase your consciousness; that doesn't mean anything. They just open the energetic barriers that enclose you and keep you disconnected from the depth. 

You could call it increasing your consciousness, but it isn't exactly that, is more that break the separation between you and the reality, then it's not "your consciousness" anymore, it's the reality, that opens in all it's depth, that is unfathomable. Then the life is manifested, the total being. It's a matter of energetic barriers more of increasing anything 

Edited 17 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[nerdspeak]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-inquiry and meditation are highly ineffective unless you have special genetics. Which is why so few people succeed via those methods.

I have tested these things to exhaustion, way more than they deserve. I have been very fair and patient with the dogmatic techniques.

I think they work if you start very young, when the brain is very neurally plastic, and live in a monastery continually. 

 When I was 20 I spent 6 months in a monastery doing zazen on average six hours per day and had some wild stuff happen toward the end. Fourth jhana after 20 minutes of sitting, consistently. Sometimes 10. 

Then I went back to normal life and backslid massively.

20 is still relatively old to start compared to Asia. 

[thierry]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The only reason Ralston is able to get far in his work is because he has unique special genetics which no one else has. Which is also why psychedelics don't work well on him. 

 

I don’t get how Ralston having amazing genetics means psychedelics wouldn’t work on him

 

[Oppositionless]

13 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Oppositionless

On and off for 5/6 years - more consistently in the last 2 years. I average 30-45 minutes a day. Split into 2 sessions. Weekends I always go for 2hrs on one of the days. There is more inside that you can only know or understand by doing the work - meditation or psychedelics. I don't draw conclusions, and it is hard to discount other's experiences after some of the states I have been in.

 

I relate to you , meditation also works really well for me, I'm fortunate. I did a solo retreat when I was a teenager where I dissolved the sensory field into vibrating energy after just a few days. I'm just pretty undisciplined lol, hence the desire for the monastery.

@Joshe  my dominant function is extroverted , not introverted, intuition, I'm an ENTP.

Edited 16 hours ago by Oppositionless