Owen Cook & Marczell Klein Free Tour NYC Notes 9/26/25 - 9/28/25

[something_else]

21 minutes ago, AION said:

I don’t care about money or status 

 

1 hour ago, AION said:

There is no greater pleasure than pulling up in a sports car, looking slick like a G in slick leather jacket and bruising the regular's guy ego and wetting some pants.

Alright dude

[AION]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

 

Alright dude

That was an one time thing as an experiment. Most of my time goes into my consciousness development and LP. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:45 PM by AION

[UnbornTao]

A truly conscious person drives a second-hand Toyota. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

A truly conscious person drives a second-hand Toyota. 

Step up! Penny-farthing level over here 😜

Edited Wednesday at 10:49 PM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

A truly conscious person drives a second-hand Toyota. 

A truly conscious person levitates his way to work

Edited Wednesday at 09:04 PM by Eskilon

[Cocolove]

@Leo GuraGood points. He definitely could be a lot more developed. I was pretty impressed by how much more conscious he is than his youtube videos make him look sometimes. I definitely have a lot to learn from him.

 

I'm going to post my notes per peoples recommendation. It's a lot more focused on business. I found the business stuff to be really helpful.

[Cocolove]

NYC freetour notes

 

Marzcell Klein:

 

#1 reason people will trust you is if you’re confident, how you dress, how you carry yourself. the reason you will be confident is if people have liked you. Vulnerability is confident. honest and trustworthy, openness, vulnerability are the #1 signals you can trust someone.

we are in rapport with people who are like us or who we want to be like

confidence comes from teaching yourself not to hide things from others

shortcut to sales calls and relationships is pure authenticity. if you play games you will be fighting a massive battle and always chasing.

whatever triggers you or hurts you tells you you have an insecurity. if i feel hurt when a girl doesn’t like me its because i am insecure about my likeability 

3 things to create rapport 

-body language, mirrors neurons, having similar body language builds rapport. with confidence and presence this comes naturally 

-tone

-words, saying words or things youre not supposed to say builds trust 

 

pacing and leading physical things builds rapport

abundant paradigm prevents you from needing something from someone

insecurity is essentially belief. every insecurity creates its own reality.

RAS allows you to maintain a belief, generalizes, deletes, distorts.

if you want to find out your limiting beliefs, ask why you aren’t where you want to be

write out a massive goal, right after you visualize something like that you will feel big excitement, then your limiting beliefs will come up.

if you’re afraid to ask for money, you have a limiting beliefs and will charge small prices

-social calibration to someones emotional state

law of state transference happens with mirror neurons. 

a dog barks and does a bunch of stuff, could become violent so it is scary when someone isnt calm.

confidence allowed you to learn things faster

 

 

 

Owen notes

guard your time preciously

when selling something, being very engaged but not attached to outcome signals the right energy, giving not taking

-pitch

-1st understand is that most sales bullshit is a waste of time

-people in a high paradigm are shuffling the ball down the field, things are moving. unlike flurry of activity going nowhere

-people dont pitch because they have a scarcity poverty mentality, which can also

lead to not being willing to charge a good amount. people go to do the cta and they tense up

 

ive got to have a great product, work on developing it so i really believe in it 

 

stack sale because i love it. Add a bunch of bonuses that will help the client get the result, that's how you know what to stack.

PEOPLE WILL get the value that they invest, once you realize that you will feel good at a higher price. i need to think about for myself, the value that they will get out of it. 

the beggining of sales is inner game.

they cant value you or the service if they dont have an investment

like once a girl has sex with you, she can see your value, and will invest and be in love

if you dont do good sales all this action goes to nothing

making a thorough youtube series on my pitch, this will get multiple rois, i will also learn how to do my pitch

his idea of a speech that doesnt go anywhere is the same as game that doesnt go anywhere

sales is like instead of just talking in the club, passionate sex and going into nature together

a sales pitch is a fine tuned surgery, it is very sensitive to interference

the skills of game, sales skills, will pay off no matter what.

high levels of syngery, the inner game of sales is understanding that people will get the value that they pay. 

you got the persons brain to attribute the dollar amount to the transformation 

john carleton kickass copyrighting secrets of a marketing rebel

dan kennedy no bs 

1st thing john carleton explains is people think they know marketing just like girls think they know what theyre attracted to. example of big corporations doing billboards doesnt work

you learn to talk in a way that makes impact and moves people. sales done properly is so beautiful.

every word is a pitch. everything must be sales copy. 

if its not generaring movement its just blabber

if youre not going to sell someone, have a great energetic exchange.

the equivalent with girls is not needing sex, but also wanting it all (travel to nature)

life creation

communication thats leading somewhere

this was all a sales repitch

getting you excited about these things is controlling RAS. its all on autopilot for him, he was talking about how he is doing this, and it all goes on autopilot. push and pull, fractionation

at a certain point you get tired of game and pitches that go nowhere

part of sales is showing genuine emotion

its all a vortex of sales

he is just selling sales again and again and again. keeps talking about how awesome the thing is, example after example

get people to realize the dumb shit they blow money on, how little it is

this has all been the inner game of learning sales.

different scenarios of everything you can do with it. example after example

 

Format of sales

Hook

features

story that represents a problem 

widget

 

pain pleasure, “do you want your communication to move people, do you want to do a wayne nutton(talking that goes nowhere)”

this structure combined with speaking skills 

 

example: who is going to make money, sales, or a harvard degree

 

pressure on pressure off is doing the sales thing then just relaxing

 

feature and benefits, higher and lower self benefits

 

in group out group

 

frame how they get value in excess of the price to get repeats

 

i wanna be laughing, learning, auditing failure, or moving people

 

if they have resistance, keep stacking features benefits, say youre looking for the right person, in group out group

 

when youre doing sales you teach the why not the how. just features and benefits

 

takeaway in a high point in sales, similar to in game.

 

headliner

hook

social proof 

credentials

personal story

features and benefits

risk reversal

 

 

 

 

when you click on a typical youtube video, you click right off. avoid sunk cost bias, view it objectively. these components should grab them by the overalls, and drag them into the video. think very carefully about the title, you have to test it

 

there is a spectrum from in person to video to text sales. with a video they could click off any time

 

high traffic, low competition score for title

hire someone for thumbnails

 

immediate sharp breaking rapport tonality. the moment you break tension they click off. its all objective language in the start. 

 

the hook can poke them, do a pattern interrupt, massive certainty, break past autopilot, congruent. 

 

i must record a video every single week, so that by the time i actually launch, you pick the one with the best sub communication or else there is way too much pressure

 

positition yourself as an expert, actual credibility, social proof, speak with authority 

 

credibility is not credentials. its what youve done for people

 

a coach has potential credibility because they are outside the box, but there are also snake oil salesmen. social proof, congruence, you can do real credentials later on

 

always trying to balance value with comfort and trust. just tell the facts of what youve done

 

figure out your niche first xyz problem for xyz person in xyz novel way

 

social proof is the most powerful

 

speak with objective language, ‘i do great coaching’ is subjective

 

if you do one wrong thing it shuts the door

 

buying temp goes up then cta

 

zyz ppl over xyz years, or examplr of client

 

numbers locations(comtinents) results

 

they wont shut down, hes just sharing information. this is all leading to a cta

 

cta is abt goving, the ask must b a give

 

the whole thing must be a give. when you can feel in your body belief in your product is a good time to record

 

tell your story is next, builds trust, relatable, how you were in heaven v hell

 

david goggins story bc he was fat

 

tear of how your life was before n after service

 

descriptive language, deep into feeling

 

it has to be real, the self is always shining through

 

evoke feeling

 

show dont tell the transformation

what is time delay on that

 

then features and benefits

-can come before or after^ celebrity or brands youre associated with, or just that you are aligned with. 

when it comes to these things, it must be smooth effortless nonqualifying, also subcommunication if youre too nervous or excited. because its a normal thing in your reality, they want to jump into your reality bubble

 

then do risk reversal gets more sales

 

landing page llc payment processor merchant account, license, pump all money into right staff

 

book financial intelligence

 

this is a to b paradigm 

b to c is energy

 

sign up now, bonus, tied to fast action, not give it away all the time, creates scarcity and urgency

 

what is the industry, what is the offer, what is my avatar, 

 

frame a deal

 

perception is reality, fuck with price to make it look better, 99, 3 payments, financing

 

sooner buy discount. countdown clock 

 

address that there is a group, community, 

its like becoming a bf gf versus fucking a hooker, with the community

 

consult marketers, do deep work on smooth n welcoming as possible

 

the presentation must be beautiful 

 

if outsourcing sales you need good people 

 

 

 

 

Sid

the missing thing to making money is always energy and clarity and presence. its a different fuel source. what is your brain constantly looping on

 

youre not evolutionarily wired to see the opportunities that are all around you

 

you should be channeling more energy than you can handle when you visualize. visualize what you actually want your life to look like 

 

upward spiral where it feels good because you are growing

 

put pressure on yourself by being around people on a high level, fire under your ass plus carrot

and if you actually just love the craft

 

act on imperfect information

 

paradigm of time for working

flow state from work

delegation 

structuring 

says no to everything else

made lifestyle a priority 

 

part of enduring a job is acceptance and presence in a situation that sucks. 

 

after work

bad habits instagra

good habits, meditate, eat, work, learn

maintain these

 

archetypes of passion

logic

competition leadership

creativity, impact

 

try different passions

what have i been building on for years 

realistic world class lane

where do i have unfair connections

talk to masters of the field, do you like them

pick at some point n commit

 

 

theres an uncanny vally when there is just a bit of incongruence

 

when you do a cta you must feel like you are genuinely giving something 

 

the risk reversal helps with this

 

is there a misalignment of words and actions

 

you will see peoples red flags show up under pressure

-quietly build your leverage back if needed

-have more alliances and not npd friends

-do not engage in these games

 

become the gray rock, do not engage in useless conversations

 

vision, creating artistic challenging large food forest projects, traveling all the time, nature exploration. not having to worry about money for any basic things. changing the agricultural system.

 

relentless tim grover, star sports players had this dark pain that drove them

 

what is the cost of not doing these things, years of shitty dating life, having to get a shit job again

 

youre always moving too slow, post the videos, run cold traffic. move and iterate

 

train the body to handle adrenaline, adrenaline is a priveledge, ussually evolutionarily we would feel it all the time. 

 

 

marzcel

your mindset and beliefs are a strategy to get things

-beliefs

-emotions

-patterns

 

 

if you believe you can get what you want, you will. that is confidence

 

 

what is my map currently doing 

if you are not getting the result, your map doesn’t actually know how to get it 

 

my money map

-it is scarce, i can only make 2x what i’m making now. 

 

my women map

-i don’t want to talk to them, i assume they wont like me. 

 

 

 

ibrahem

-frame is something youre in 24/7

-in any interactions

 

 

owens sales process

he has this whole frame, this general understanding of how all of this works, that everything relates back to, e.g casually mentions that he has to scale the company so wont be teaching pickup for much longer. features and benefits all the time. how these skills can affect your life. 

 

i need to write out and perfect a general sales frame, it can go deep on features and benefits, not ‘how to’.   this meta frame is what i will use for vsl, sales call, youtube videos.

 

 

 

sids mergers and acquisitions sales speech, he is explaining the how of to do mNa, he is explaining the how and why

 

he is painting a story of his life

 

part of sids sales process is the manic episode, explaining how seeing whats possible helps is part of the frame. the mindset and energy is what opens people up

 

subtle art of not giving a fuck

 

Owen likes to read the sermon on the mount, the gospels

[nerdspeak]

@Cocolove The high-level advice is ok if you’re trying to sell coaching to consumers.

For sharper b2b buyers (and b2b sales is where most salespeople actually make money), the tactics he describes would seem quite hokey. 

But I guess that’s okay. His main goal seems to be coaching people how to coach people how to become coaches lmao. 

[Oppositionless]

Is pickup like gettting a shaktipat transmission from a guru for enlightenment. In person you receive the pickup transmission and now you have the power to approach .

 

I passed up on the oppurtunity to go on a free tour bc I was in a relationship , thought I was being noble, she hurt me and now I feel foolish, but I don't want to turn to the dark side either . It's a fine line between contempt and corruption.

Edited Thursday at 03:14 PM by Oppositionless

[Recursoinominado]

49 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

Is pickup like gettting a shaktipat transmission from a guru for enlightenment. In person you receive the pickup transmission and now you have the power to approach .

I feel like most people watch pickup content as a form of entertainment or some information that they will someday use, maybe. Only a few realize that pickup is something you actually can do, like you can go out of your house right now and say, "Hey, I swear I am not crazy, just found you cute and wanted to say hi" to a real woman. In-person events can help you realize this is a skill that you can actually develop.

Also, you find like-minded people who do approach. Turns from fantasy to reality. 

54 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

I don't want to turn to the dark side either . It's a fine line between contempt and corruption.

Well, you can do it ethically.  Just have some integrity and empathy, avoid lying too much and hurting (even emotionally) others, and you will be fine.

Don't put your "lay count" above everything; don't try to impress your friends by showing how much game you have. Just be normal, social, have fun meeting people, and live an adventure. 

[nerdspeak]

On 9/30/2025 at 0:33 PM, Zen LaCroix said:

You want be very spiritual and also be like a psychopathic narcissist 

Going through the OP's original notes in more detail and I have to say something about this. 

There is a kernel of truth in this quote, but Owen is massively exaggerating to make a point. And it's reckless of him.   

He means you have to accept your needs, and that your needs have to come first, no matter what. You also need to have a clear direction in life that you prioritize over other people's agendas. 

But young men (including me when I was in my 20s) misunderstand this as meaning you need to be self-obsessed and grandiose. And that's terrible advice.

You will attract other takers who will take advantage of you and then drop you once they've exploited you. More normal people will get sick of your BS and drop you. You will end up increasingly isolated, without social resources, and if you're not actually a psychopath (they have different brain chemistry that allows them to deal with living like this), it will be extremely stressful and depressing. 

Moreover, it will cause you to believe your own BS and think whatever your impulses tell you to do is great because it comes from you. 

This is a big reason why RSD got into so much trouble in the 2010s. They believed they could do no wrong and that they could get away with anything. 

Owen should know better than to say things like this having gone through that and basically having to junk the company. But instead he blames society for victimizing him and keeps preaching the same self-centered nonsense. 

Edited Thursday at 05:55 PM by nerdspeak

[Cocolove]

@nerdspeak Owen was very clear about his psychopathic narciccist analogy at the event. He just means for people who are very much in a loving spiritual energetic world, in order to have success in the physical world, they need to train themselves to see the utility and use of everything, including people. He mostly talked about protecting your time and energy. Being very utilitarian about building systems that allow you to get where you want to go.

But yea that sounds like a terrible path to go down. Again maybe im biased because it's so easy for me to sort the wheat from the chaff but I think he was being clearer than it sounds like he used to be about that one.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/8/2025 at 9:58 PM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Step up! Penny-farthing level over here 😜

On 10/8/2025 at 10:04 PM, Eskilon said:

A truly conscious person levitates his way to work

[Zen LaCroix]

19 hours ago, Cocolove said:

NYC freetour notes

 

Marzcell Klein:

 

#1 reason people will trust you is if you’re confident, how you dress, how you carry yourself. the reason you will be confident is if people have liked you. Vulnerability is confident. honest and trustworthy, openness, vulnerability are the #1 signals you can trust someone.

we are in rapport with people who are like us or who we want to be like

confidence comes from teaching yourself not to hide things from others

shortcut to sales calls and relationships is pure authenticity. if you play games you will be fighting a massive battle and always chasing.

whatever triggers you or hurts you tells you you have an insecurity. if i feel hurt when a girl doesn’t like me its because i am insecure about my likeability 

3 things to create rapport 

-body language, mirrors neurons, having similar body language builds rapport. with confidence and presence this comes naturally 

-tone

-words, saying words or things youre not supposed to say builds trust 

 

pacing and leading physical things builds rapport

abundant paradigm prevents you from needing something from someone

insecurity is essentially belief. every insecurity creates its own reality.

RAS allows you to maintain a belief, generalizes, deletes, distorts.

if you want to find out your limiting beliefs, ask why you aren’t where you want to be

write out a massive goal, right after you visualize something like that you will feel big excitement, then your limiting beliefs will come up.

if you’re afraid to ask for money, you have a limiting beliefs and will charge small prices

-social calibration to someones emotional state

law of state transference happens with mirror neurons. 

a dog barks and does a bunch of stuff, could become violent so it is scary when someone isnt calm.

confidence allowed you to learn things faster

 

 

 

Owen notes

guard your time preciously

when selling something, being very engaged but not attached to outcome signals the right energy, giving not taking

-pitch

-1st understand is that most sales bullshit is a waste of time

-people in a high paradigm are shuffling the ball down the field, things are moving. unlike flurry of activity going nowhere

-people dont pitch because they have a scarcity poverty mentality, which can also

lead to not being willing to charge a good amount. people go to do the cta and they tense up

 

ive got to have a great product, work on developing it so i really believe in it 

 

stack sale because i love it. Add a bunch of bonuses that will help the client get the result, that's how you know what to stack.

PEOPLE WILL get the value that they invest, once you realize that you will feel good at a higher price. i need to think about for myself, the value that they will get out of it. 

the beggining of sales is inner game.

they cant value you or the service if they dont have an investment

like once a girl has sex with you, she can see your value, and will invest and be in love

if you dont do good sales all this action goes to nothing

making a thorough youtube series on my pitch, this will get multiple rois, i will also learn how to do my pitch

his idea of a speech that doesnt go anywhere is the same as game that doesnt go anywhere

sales is like instead of just talking in the club, passionate sex and going into nature together

a sales pitch is a fine tuned surgery, it is very sensitive to interference

the skills of game, sales skills, will pay off no matter what.

high levels of syngery, the inner game of sales is understanding that people will get the value that they pay. 

you got the persons brain to attribute the dollar amount to the transformation 

john carleton kickass copyrighting secrets of a marketing rebel

dan kennedy no bs 

1st thing john carleton explains is people think they know marketing just like girls think they know what theyre attracted to. example of big corporations doing billboards doesnt work

you learn to talk in a way that makes impact and moves people. sales done properly is so beautiful.

every word is a pitch. everything must be sales copy. 

if its not generaring movement its just blabber

if youre not going to sell someone, have a great energetic exchange.

the equivalent with girls is not needing sex, but also wanting it all (travel to nature)

life creation

communication thats leading somewhere

this was all a sales repitch

getting you excited about these things is controlling RAS. its all on autopilot for him, he was talking about how he is doing this, and it all goes on autopilot. push and pull, fractionation

at a certain point you get tired of game and pitches that go nowhere

part of sales is showing genuine emotion

its all a vortex of sales

he is just selling sales again and again and again. keeps talking about how awesome the thing is, example after example

get people to realize the dumb shit they blow money on, how little it is

this has all been the inner game of learning sales.

different scenarios of everything you can do with it. example after example

 

Format of sales

Hook

features

story that represents a problem 

widget

 

pain pleasure, “do you want your communication to move people, do you want to do a wayne nutton(talking that goes nowhere)”

this structure combined with speaking skills 

 

example: who is going to make money, sales, or a harvard degree

 

pressure on pressure off is doing the sales thing then just relaxing

 

feature and benefits, higher and lower self benefits

 

in group out group

 

frame how they get value in excess of the price to get repeats

 

i wanna be laughing, learning, auditing failure, or moving people

 

if they have resistance, keep stacking features benefits, say youre looking for the right person, in group out group

 

when youre doing sales you teach the why not the how. just features and benefits

 

takeaway in a high point in sales, similar to in game.

 

headliner

hook

social proof 

credentials

personal story

features and benefits

risk reversal

 

 

 

 

when you click on a typical youtube video, you click right off. avoid sunk cost bias, view it objectively. these components should grab them by the overalls, and drag them into the video. think very carefully about the title, you have to test it

 

there is a spectrum from in person to video to text sales. with a video they could click off any time

 

high traffic, low competition score for title

hire someone for thumbnails

 

immediate sharp breaking rapport tonality. the moment you break tension they click off. its all objective language in the start. 

 

the hook can poke them, do a pattern interrupt, massive certainty, break past autopilot, congruent. 

 

i must record a video every single week, so that by the time i actually launch, you pick the one with the best sub communication or else there is way too much pressure

 

positition yourself as an expert, actual credibility, social proof, speak with authority 

 

credibility is not credentials. its what youve done for people

 

a coach has potential credibility because they are outside the box, but there are also snake oil salesmen. social proof, congruence, you can do real credentials later on

 

always trying to balance value with comfort and trust. just tell the facts of what youve done

 

figure out your niche first xyz problem for xyz person in xyz novel way

 

social proof is the most powerful

 

speak with objective language, ‘i do great coaching’ is subjective

 

if you do one wrong thing it shuts the door

 

buying temp goes up then cta

 

zyz ppl over xyz years, or examplr of client

 

numbers locations(comtinents) results

 

they wont shut down, hes just sharing information. this is all leading to a cta

 

cta is abt goving, the ask must b a give

 

the whole thing must be a give. when you can feel in your body belief in your product is a good time to record

 

tell your story is next, builds trust, relatable, how you were in heaven v hell

 

david goggins story bc he was fat

 

tear of how your life was before n after service

 

descriptive language, deep into feeling

 

it has to be real, the self is always shining through

 

evoke feeling

 

show dont tell the transformation

what is time delay on that

 

then features and benefits

-can come before or after^ celebrity or brands youre associated with, or just that you are aligned with. 

when it comes to these things, it must be smooth effortless nonqualifying, also subcommunication if youre too nervous or excited. because its a normal thing in your reality, they want to jump into your reality bubble

 

then do risk reversal gets more sales

 

landing page llc payment processor merchant account, license, pump all money into right staff

 

book financial intelligence

 

this is a to b paradigm 

b to c is energy

 

sign up now, bonus, tied to fast action, not give it away all the time, creates scarcity and urgency

 

what is the industry, what is the offer, what is my avatar, 

 

frame a deal

 

perception is reality, fuck with price to make it look better, 99, 3 payments, financing

 

sooner buy discount. countdown clock 

 

address that there is a group, community, 

its like becoming a bf gf versus fucking a hooker, with the community

 

consult marketers, do deep work on smooth n welcoming as possible

 

the presentation must be beautiful 

 

if outsourcing sales you need good people 

 

 

 

 

Sid

the missing thing to making money is always energy and clarity and presence. its a different fuel source. what is your brain constantly looping on

 

youre not evolutionarily wired to see the opportunities that are all around you

 

you should be channeling more energy than you can handle when you visualize. visualize what you actually want your life to look like 

 

upward spiral where it feels good because you are growing

 

put pressure on yourself by being around people on a high level, fire under your ass plus carrot

and if you actually just love the craft

 

act on imperfect information

 

paradigm of time for working

flow state from work

delegation 

structuring 

says no to everything else

made lifestyle a priority 

 

part of enduring a job is acceptance and presence in a situation that sucks. 

 

after work

bad habits instagra

good habits, meditate, eat, work, learn

maintain these

 

archetypes of passion

logic

competition leadership

creativity, impact

 

try different passions

what have i been building on for years 

realistic world class lane

where do i have unfair connections

talk to masters of the field, do you like them

pick at some point n commit

 

 

theres an uncanny vally when there is just a bit of incongruence

 

when you do a cta you must feel like you are genuinely giving something 

 

the risk reversal helps with this

 

is there a misalignment of words and actions

 

you will see peoples red flags show up under pressure

-quietly build your leverage back if needed

-have more alliances and not npd friends

-do not engage in these games

 

become the gray rock, do not engage in useless conversations

 

vision, creating artistic challenging large food forest projects, traveling all the time, nature exploration. not having to worry about money for any basic things. changing the agricultural system.

 

relentless tim grover, star sports players had this dark pain that drove them

 

what is the cost of not doing these things, years of shitty dating life, having to get a shit job again

 

youre always moving too slow, post the videos, run cold traffic. move and iterate

 

train the body to handle adrenaline, adrenaline is a priveledge, ussually evolutionarily we would feel it all the time. 

 

 

marzcel

your mindset and beliefs are a strategy to get things

-beliefs

-emotions

-patterns

 

 

if you believe you can get what you want, you will. that is confidence

 

 

what is my map currently doing 

if you are not getting the result, your map doesn’t actually know how to get it 

 

my money map

-it is scarce, i can only make 2x what i’m making now. 

 

my women map

-i don’t want to talk to them, i assume they wont like me. 

 

 

 

ibrahem

-frame is something youre in 24/7

-in any interactions

 

 

owens sales process

he has this whole frame, this general understanding of how all of this works, that everything relates back to, e.g casually mentions that he has to scale the company so wont be teaching pickup for much longer. features and benefits all the time. how these skills can affect your life. 

 

i need to write out and perfect a general sales frame, it can go deep on features and benefits, not ‘how to’.   this meta frame is what i will use for vsl, sales call, youtube videos.

 

 

 

sids mergers and acquisitions sales speech, he is explaining the how of to do mNa, he is explaining the how and why

 

he is painting a story of his life

 

part of sids sales process is the manic episode, explaining how seeing whats possible helps is part of the frame. the mindset and energy is what opens people up

 

subtle art of not giving a fuck

 

Owen likes to read the sermon on the mount, the gospels

You should make separate post in the forum for this. Others might not see it here

Edited Friday at 03:34 AM by Zen LaCroix

[Zen LaCroix]

9 hours ago, nerdspeak said:

Going through the OP's original notes in more detail and I have to say something about this. 

There is a kernel of truth in this quote, but Owen is massively exaggerating to make a point. And it's reckless of him.   

He means you have to accept your needs, and that your needs have to come first, no matter what. You also need to have a clear direction in life that you prioritize over other people's agendas. 

But young men (including me when I was in my 20s) misunderstand this as meaning you need to be self-obsessed and grandiose. And that's terrible advice.

You will attract other takers who will take advantage of you and then drop you once they've exploited you. More normal people will get sick of your BS and drop you. You will end up increasingly isolated, without social resources, and if you're not actually a psychopath (they have different brain chemistry that allows them to deal with living like this), it will be extremely stressful and depressing. 

Moreover, it will cause you to believe your own BS and think whatever your impulses tell you to do is great because it comes from you. 

This is a big reason why RSD got into so much trouble in the 2010s. They believed they could do no wrong and that they could get away with anything. 

Owen should know better than to say things like this having gone through that and basically having to junk the company. But instead he blames society for victimizing him and keeps preaching the same self-centered nonsense. 

No he was very clear on what he said

Last year he was even more explicit and went on a rant on why you need to be a likeca psychopath narcissist 

He's talking about getting massive success in dating. He doesn't put this stuff online 

Look up the traits of a psychopath narcissist and its obvious why he says this

The reason he mentions the spirituality is because he doesn't want you to be fully corrupted and evil with that mindset

 

[nerdspeak]

5 hours ago, Zen LaCroix said:

He's talking about getting massive success in dating. He doesn't put this stuff online 

Look up the traits of a psychopath narcissist and its obvious why he says this

I’m familiar. You need to be like a psychopath narcissist to do many of the things they teach.

The steel man version of his claim is, you need to act like a psychopathic narcissist to cut through the noise of the nightclub and monopolize the woman’s attention on the initial approach and convey your personality. 

That’s sort of true for drunk women in nightclubs. But if you act self-obsessed and aggressive like this in normal contexts where the woman is sober, it’s unnecessary and will attract the wrong kind of woman. 

If I’m being less charitable, I’ll point out that you have to be like a narcissist psychopath to deploy the tactics they teach. And he’s massively exaggerating the situation with this red pill stuff to help his audience rationalize using these extreme tactics.

Probably he doesn’t go into such extreme detail anymore like he did in the 2010s. But those tactics included: 

1. Tricking drunk girls in nightclubs to leave with you to go to an “after party” that’s really just your house. While you’re fully sober. Julien invented this but Owen taught it. And it’s borderline kidnapping.

2. Pushing reluctant girls to sleep with you once isolated with compliance chains. Jeffy and Julien used to advise putting the condom on “just for rubbing” and then “slip it in.” If this didn’t work, they advised crying and begging for sex. 

3. Putting a girl in a rotation and deflect all talk about whether you want a relationship until the girl’s become attached to you, so that she’s only sleeping with you and you’re sleeping with other women. 

You can do some of this stuff if you have a high enough EQ. A lot of it is illegal but you probably won’t go to jail. But yes, you need to have a personality disorder OR be sucked into his weird cult with multiple levels of reinforcement (through him and his videos, your wings) to justify it.

Again, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say he wouldn’t advise the extreme tactics anymore.

But even if you just do the rotation stuff and the lying and deflection to maintain it (what he calls “pimping”), you will make a lot of girls hate you after they break up with you. Despite what Owen says, normal women without borderline or histrionic personality disorder don’t enjoy being on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse. 

Unless you hide it, which most RSD guys did not because Owen taught them to believe their behavior was “awesome,” your normal friends will reject you as a social liability. 

Worse, your ego will massively inflate and get addicted to this behavior, and you’ll create a lot of rationalizations about why it’s actually okay that will further alienate you from society and from truth. 

Owen’s advice to “be very spiritual” to stop it from corrupting you is bs lol. Doing some meditation and reading the Tao Te Ching is not going to stop this behavior from fucking you up. And the more you identify with it, and the more friends you get from this community, the harder it will be to leave. 

Some people who got chronically rejected or abused maybe need to become players for a bit to work through their trust issues. I was one of them. And people in blue need to become more selfish to break into orange. But even so, you don’t need to be predatory about it, even if you’re short and average looking.

Owen’s red pill conspiracy theories are just marketing. The real reason mass market dating in general audience nightclubs and dating apps is harder now is because society is fragmented by niche social media marketing. And women feel less pressure to have boyfriends. But that’s easy to adjust to. And also people have worse social skills now. However, there’s also less shame about casual sex compared to even ten years ago. You don’t need to become a narcissistic micro-celeb like Owen to date around, you need to:

1. Pick a subculture that you like and optimize your dress and energy around it, ideally building some local status but even if not, it will allow you to niche down 

2. Get good at picking up on subcommunications of interest and availability from women. 

All of Owen’s theories are really not necessary provided you have basic communication skills. Whether a woman will be interested is determined by (1) how attracted she is to you; (2) how available she is. If you want to date women more physically attractive than you, then live in a place with a lot of single women in your subculture and get good at picking up on signals of high availability. If she’s very available, she’ll settle for medium physical attraction provided you fit into her lifestyle. 

If you’ve ever done sales or marketing before this will make immediate sense. If a buyer has a lot of urgency, they’ll settle for an only adequate product, or overpriced product, and then become attached to it over time as it becomes integrated in their workflow. It’s the same thing here, the woman will settle for adequate physical attractiveness if she’s super horny and available and then become attached as she falls in love. But she won’t view you as a real option unless you fit into her subculture. 

Btw I’m not trying to counter sell against Owen or teach pickup or anything like that. Teaching pickup is the last thing I’d ever want to do lol. 

Edited Friday at 08:51 AM by nerdspeak
Clarification

[Zen LaCroix]

10 hours ago, Zen LaCroix said:

No he was very clear on what he said

Last year he was even more explicit and went on a rant on why you need to be a like a psychopath narcissist 

He's talking about getting massive success in dating. He doesn't put this stuff online 

Look up the traits of a psychopath narcissist and its obvious why he says this

The reason he mentions the spirituality is because he doesn't want you to be fully corrupted and evil with that mindset

 

 

[ZenSwift]

@Zen LaCroix

 

Thankyou for the post. I found some great insights to chew on. 

 

Could you please elaborate on each of these insights? I'd love to understand these deeper. 

 

• "Need a sense of urgency that it has to happen now" 
• "All change happens when you step out of your current identity" 
• "Make love to every word you say"
• "Easiest way to change your life is through hypnosis" <especially this one
• "Create a second personality" 
• "You need to be able to communicate with full self-belief" 
• "Need a sense of urgency that it has to happen now" 
• "Unless you light a fire under your ass it ain’t gonna happen" 

 

Thankyou. 

•  

[nerdspeak]

@Zen LaCroix I know Owen said it’s necessary to act this way. And look, if you’re getting value from the relationship with him at the moment, I am not looking to interfere.  

However, I wonder, why he is making such extreme claims?

I hung around him for a long time. After a while I observed that he has the same manipulative gambits for clients and interns that he uses on women. The same lines he used to draw me in, I saw him use to draw in other prospective interns or wealthier kids that could turn into repeat clients. 

While he’s a smart guy and has momentary empathy, everything Owen says is calculated to encourage guru dependency and keep the money or free intern labor flowing. Insofar as he says true things, it’s only insofar as it benefits him. He’d just as soon lie if it made him more money or got him more sex.

So, if he says things have gotten so catastrophically bad that you need to be a psychopath just to date, do I think that’s necessarily because it’s “true,” just because he’s the guru and he says it?

Well, idk, it conflicts with my experience. And it conflicts with a lot of things he used to say not long ago, how this is the best time ever to sleep with many beautiful women, because “there are more sluts now than there have ever been in history” (a direct quote) and that you just need to find horny bored girls and be there best option in that moment, and pickup is the easiest thing ever. 

Ok, that being the case, why would he start saying that things are so bad you need to be a psychopath narcissist just to have sex? For marketing reasons. He’s tested it, and it helps him sell and upsell more in the current environment. 

 

[Miguel1]

@nerdspeak Are you sure you are not way overthinking this?

He is teaching "healthy" orange stuff. And orange is about maximizing profit. He simply does what he preaches.

For example, nowadays I don't need to act so narcissistic anymore due to my overall social skills, game and abundance from 10+ years of experience in dating - but when I first started, had I not been so narcissistic (read: selfish & manipulative), it would have been way harder to get to where I am now.

The learning process would have been much slower, and chances are I would have been too demotivated due to lack of results, to keep on pushing.

Winning early made me spiral upwards to keep on enjoying the game, and having my winner effect often activated, which again makes everything more enjoyable and the cycle is complete.