Zen LaCroix

Owen Cook & Marczell Klein Free Tour NYC Notes 9/26/25 - 9/28/25

39 posts in this topic

IMO, pickup will hurt you in the long run because the very act betrays your integrity and authenticity. Sooner or later you will have to pay for the whole lot of corruption and self-betrayal you’ve engaged in - a reckoning which can only be avoided by doubling down into delusion. 

Secondary point: It feels dirty because it is dirty. 

If your family and friends call you while you’re on the way to “How to Be A Man - Hot Seat 2025” and ask “ so, what are you up to?”, would you feel comfortable telling them, or would you keep it a secret? 

What happens to your secret when you meet a girl and after dating for a while, you really start to like each other? You gonna try your best to burry the secret and hope she never discovers it or would you share with her freely all the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears you’ve poured into this project?

If you have to hide something, that’s often a sign you’re breaking with your integrity. 

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13 minutes ago, Joshe said:

IMO, pickup will hurt you in the long run because the very act betrays your integrity and authenticity. Sooner or later you will have to pay for the whole lot of corruption and self-betrayal you’ve engaged in - a reckoning which can only be avoided by doubling down into delusion. 

Secondary point: It feels dirty because it is dirty. 

If your family and friends call you while you’re on the way to “How to Be A Man - Hot Seat 2025” and ask “ so, what are you up to?”, would you feel comfortable telling them, or would you keep it a secret? 

What happens to your secret when you meet a girl and after dating for a while, you really start to like each other? You gonna try your best to burry the secret and hope she never discovers it or would you share with her freely all the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears you’ve poured into this project?

If you have to hide something, that’s often a sign you’re breaking with your integrity. 

If you have to hide something that means society doesn’t respect it. That doesn’t mean it is wrong. Society accepts many bad things and rejects many good things. 

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Owen is fat and metrosexual I'm pretty sure he doesn't get any results except here and there forcing himself with unattractive girls.


Nothing will prevent Willy.

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9 hours ago, Raze said:

If you have to hide something that means society doesn’t respect it. That doesn’t mean it is wrong. Society accepts many bad things and rejects many good things. 

Of course, and this is where the devil smuggles in and lays his justifications for you.

How convenient is it that a game of social manipulation be taboo? So, so convenient. 

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I think it's fine to want to improve with women, have sex, etc. What I'm saying is simple. Just don't sell out. Make sure the inner guidance you have is heard before you hear Owen's insufferable shouting, truth will not shout at you. If you inner guidance is clearer and firmly what guides you over Owen's annoying rants, then go ahead and listen to him for some ideas. If it isn't, be careful listening to such characters. 

Edited by Lyubov

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On 04/10/2025 at 4:15 AM, Schizophonia said:

Owen is fat and metrosexual I'm pretty sure he doesn't get any results except here and there forcing himself with unattractive girls.

Nah, man, he probably still slays. Even if he had no game, he is the leader of a movement, he has massive social proof, he is rich, he has a huge, successful network, he organizes house parties all the time, he goes out all the time, he seems to have many female friends, etc. It is impossible for him to fail in dating at this point, and he still has game. 

Of course, he is successful within a specific niche, a certain type of girl that you and I might not be attracted to, but hey, cheers for him if he likes it.


From Brazil

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On 9/30/2025 at 6:00 PM, Raze said:

Luke or Derek on the other hand actually did according to many reports, and their advice is was always largely bad and unoriginal. 

I've been involved in a one of Luke's programs and I have nothing but great things to say about it. The knowledge was way beyond its time back then and still is today. I have a friend that bought his personal mentoring and he found like to be slow to reply and a bit unprofessional so that's the other side but the knowledge and teachings are undeniable. I've built many communities and my current business mostly off of what I learned from Luke Krogh and Michael Sartain. 


Owner of creatives community all around Canada as well as a business mastermind 

Follow me on Instagram @Kylegfall <3

 

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Some of you guys moralize too much

The way you do pick up is a reflection of you. Stop trying to act as if pursuing sex is immoral. The girls are gonna be having sex they just don't have to hunt for it. You have to pursue women

 

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Even if you look like Owen, if you socialize constantly, as he does, you will get plently laid.

The magic key is really just massive socialization, nothing fancy. You don't even need skills if you socialize all the time.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if you look like Owen, if you socialize constantly, as he does, you will get plently laid.

The magic key is really just massive socialization, nothing fancy. You don't even need skills if you socialize all the time.

100%


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if you look like Owen, if you socialize constantly, as he does, you will get plently laid.

The magic key is really just massive socialization, nothing fancy. You don't even need skills if you socialize all the time.

What exactly do you think Owen gets wrong? Just curious what your perspective on him is. Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

What exactly do you think Owen gets wrong? Just curious what your perspective on him is. Thank you.

Overly Stage Orange, overly materialistic, too much of that sleazy marketing mindset, lack of ethics, never teaches importance of ethics, misogynistic, exploitative of women, horrible politics supporting guys like Trump, Musk, Tate, anti-vaxx, misunderstanding of psychedelics, etc, etc.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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5 hours ago, Zen LaCroix said:

The girls are gonna be having sex they just don't have to hunt for it

Yes, we do, passively. Do you think we just want to have sex with any dude. No, not most women. To find a man we truly want to have sex with is hard. Clubbing and drinking and drugs will make women lay up easier but normally we do hunt but not aggressively and we're not usually looking for sex, just a guy we find attractive to be with and sex might come with that. 


What you know leaves what you don't know and what you don't know is all there is. 

 

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9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if you look like Owen, if you socialize constantly, as he does, you will get plently laid.

The magic key is really just massive socialization, nothing fancy. You don't even need skills if you socialize all the time.

I’ve realized something about myself. I saw a video you posted, I don’t remember which, but you said you realized you generally just don’t enjoy socializing much and I related a lot to this. I’ve realized that generally speaking I’ve just never been all that interested in socializing or building relationships. I of course enjoy this some and I do enjoy talking some to people, I like taking photos of people and reading about their stories. But in reality I would say for some guys we aren’t necessarily very social or even have this extroverted aspect sort of designed into our personalities to be highly relatable to a lot of people. Getting laid is heavily connected to socializing and while I do think your foundation and background is important, being a jacked handsome guy of average social intelligence will open up a ton of doors, being  well groomed guy who enjoys socializing is powerful as well. I think it’s similar to online content. There is general and relatable content that everyone can vibe with and niche stuff like Actualized that not many people are interested in. I’ve always been a more niche guy and I’m embracing that. I’ve realized it’s possible to even get your social needs met as a niche person so I’m not really trying to change myself so much. 

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4 hours ago, Lyubov said:

 I of course enjoy this some and I do enjoy talking some to people, I like taking photos of people and reading about their stories. But in reality I would say for some guys we aren’t necessarily very social or even have this extroverted aspect sort of designed into our personalities to be highly relatable to a lot of people. Getting laid is heavily connected to socializing and while I do think your foundation and background is important, being a jacked handsome guy of average social intelligence will open up a ton of doors, being  well groomed guy who enjoys socializing is powerful as well. I think it’s similar to online content. There is general and relatable content that everyone can vibe with and niche stuff like Actualized that not many people are interested in. I’ve always been a more niche guy and I’m embracing that. I’ve realized it’s possible to even get your social needs met as a niche person so I’m not really trying to change myself so much. 

Depends what the results that you want. Introverted game is different than extroverted game. Introverts ironically shine with social media and social circle since we think deeply about our interest and social media is just posting about it over and over again and iterating it until it gets you your target demographic(either ideal clients or hot girls.)

Extroverts are extremely interesting in that they don't really think about it that deeply, they mostly express emotions and talk about pop culture. 

This is a generalization but you an absolutely enjoy socialization as a deep introvert. The key is to refuse to do it on society's terms(or to do it to the point where you understand social dynamics enough to build your own setup) and do it on your own terms. I host creative events and investing ones and they're way more fun than randomly clubbing or day gaming at the mall. I still do those other 2 activities but mostly to funnel women towards my own events. 


Owner of creatives community all around Canada as well as a business mastermind 

Follow me on Instagram @Kylegfall <3

 

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On 9/30/2025 at 4:22 PM, Leo Gura said:

Great stuff.

Owen is peak Orange. But many people need that.

I honestly think he is yellow. Over the past couple years I've been going to his events. He basically uses orange stuff as part of his heavy handed marketing to meet people where they are at. But a lot of the speeches that he doesn't even post over the past few years are incredibly high level, it is very clear he is far above orange and green. He still has some blue and orange bits, but I think he is very integrated yellow. This comes from deeply studying spiral dynamics, ken wilber, susanne-cookgreauter, etc etc. It's in the way Owen thinks, not just some yellow posing. Also his buddy Sid who speaks at his events does 10 day meditation retreats al the time. Owen just has some holdups in blue because he has seen green censor his content, and in orange from addiction to his sex life and traveling. But overall that really is not much of him and I see him related to those parts of himself in a much more yellow way.

 

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On 9/30/2025 at 9:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

Just stay mindful of corruption in the teachings. No problem.

For sure. If I hadn't been studying your stuff for 9 years I would be way more vulnerable to that stuff. So perhaps I'm biased because it's easy for me to sort the wheat from the chaff. I do think Owen wants to bring people up to yellow, he even mentioned spiral dynamics in his speech lol.

 

Edit: "But if you study my work seriously it will innoculate you against Owen-style corruption." 

Just read this. exactly.

Edited by Cocolove

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@Joshe You can do it in a not dirty way. There are manipulative outer techniques and deep identity level change. Ultimately the way Owen teaches it is being deeply authentic and getting rid of your neurotic holding patterns and creating better internal beliefs. You don't need to be ashamed about that. I tell my very close female friends about it, they think it's cool. Owen and his coaches bring girls to the freetours every time. Do you really think all these people on this forum constantly yapping about pickup are engaging in something that is based on manipulation and fakeness? Of course most pickup is like that, but the conscious version is an incredible alchemizing thing.

 

On 10/4/2025 at 2:15 AM, Schizophonia said:

Owen is fat and metrosexual I'm pretty sure he doesn't get any results except here and there forcing himself with unattractive girls.

I've seen him infield, his game is world class and his looks do not hold him back. Or watch infield, unless you think it's all staged.

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20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Overly Stage Orange, overly materialistic, too much of that sleazy marketing mindset, lack of ethics, never teaches importance of ethics, misogynistic, exploitative of women, horrible politics supporting guys like Trump, Musk, Tate, anti-vaxx, misunderstanding of psychedelics, etc, etc.

Definetely still agree with a lot of this.

As far as psychedelics. What he says about personal growth and not needing psychedelics is actually pretty good. It's not a shallow perspective, but he talks about how to get the same experience from life itself. But what he doesn't get is the value of 'experiencing' absolute truth, and why some of the risks of psychedelics pale in comparison to the value of that.

He does teach some stuff about ethics at a pretty deep level.

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