She wants kids - I don't. Give up SEX and companionship?

[theleelajoker]

19 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

No at all it's instant if your let yourself go to your true nature.

Everything is already present but just repressed by the superego

+1

Yeah my POV is that's it's not about learning techniques, it's about "unlearning" all the crap that got into our system first. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Social circle game works but incels don’t have a social circle. I noticed that if you are in a social circle, the girls compete with each other for a guy and that is what gets them laid. It is not the guy doing anything than just being and not doing something stupid to fuck it up.. Pickup guys and such are doing non social game and that makes things a lot more difficult because women need social proof or you need to offer something else like looks / charisma / funniness. 

This is a good assessment. 

In my 20s I saw lots of this dynamic - within my social circle one guy was very attractive and sought after by the women. He fucked it all up by banging with them all behind their backs. Basically, shit in the paddle pool. My girlfriends at the time all wanted this guy, and all seriously thought they had something special and individual with him - they were all hiding the fact they were fucking him from each other. Mental.

I think there is a huge hurdle for incels that is almost insurmountable. Social isolation and the insular way modern society is structured enables reclusiveness to an extreme degree that can retard social growth. And without the social rapport with women the only draw cards are flashy qualities like looks, charm, humor etc. Clubs, bars.

My perspective is limited because I always operated in social circles and saw sex and dating from that lens.

I only stopped being in romantic relationships by choice. I decided to work on myself for a while. I actively dropped my social circles as they no longer served me.

But the fact *I* made the choice is the difference between currently feeing content - and feeling like I have no control and operate from scarcity.

Being on this forum opened my eyes to the plight of men who aren't as socialized out of consequence.

Edited Thursday at 11:02 AM by Natasha Tori Maru
fuk words are hard, gl to anyone who read that before the edit

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

No at all it's instant if your let yourself go to your true nature.

Everything is already present but just repressed by the superego

I’ve not found that to be true at all. If that’s your experience then that’s cool. Not denying that for you. For me it was a process, like learning to walk. A baby doesn’t one day stand up and run. It tries to walk and falls hundreds of times before being able to walk, and then it continues to fall a hundred more times before doing it well. For many men this is the process they go through when gaining social skills, building their finances and mastering their emotions before they are able to have success in dating. Some men don’t have to do as much while others need to do a lot more. 

Edited Thursday at 12:34 PM by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

+1

Yeah my POV is that's it's not about learning techniques, it's about "unlearning" all the crap that got into our system first. 

Unlearning is a process. I’m not talking about learning pick up techniques, I’m talking about cultivating a state of being, lifestyle, foundation and social understanding to attract a woman you will want to be with. That is not something many men just are able to do instantly by any means. 

Edited Thursday at 12:36 PM by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't deny that women have it very easy if the goal is to get sex and to have men interested. I'm not saying men and women have it the same in terms of level of ease of access to sex, at all. Women can get sex 100x easier than a guy can.

It's honestly more difficult to avoid sex if you're a woman... because it comes hunting for you. And that's its own problem, but that's a totally different story.

But I have seen plenty of men be successful in these ways that didn't have any kind of special qualities or development... with many being below average across many fields.

I tend to think all of that development that a lot of guys do to learn how to talk to women is akin to Dumbo's magic feather.

Dumbo believed he could only fly when holding the magic feather. But he had simply mis-correlated the feather with the flying. He could fly without the feather too... he just didn't know it and he doubted himself.

But the feather helped him attribute his own success with flying to the feather instead of to himself... which assuaged his doubts.

So, a lot of the ways that men develop themselves relative to meeting women is like Dumbo's magic feather in the sense that they didn't' really need to do that to meet a woman and have sex. But they didn't dare approach until they engaged in those means of developing themselves.

In reality, they just put themselves out there and were willing to be social with women. That was the thing that changed. And any man who's willing to be social with women can get laid, even if he's quite awkward.

So, I'm not saying it's easy. There's a head game about it.

But I'm saying that, if some of the guys I've known have been able to make it happen, it can't be the most difficult thing in the world to pull off.

That's what makes it seem like more of a limiting belief thing to my perceptions, because I've seen with my eyes really unattractive and social inept guys having girlfriends and getting laid.

So, it seems pretty evident to me that the sense of scarcity men perceive relative to sex is exacerbated by certain mindsets and beliefs. The scarcity is not as extreme as they believe.

Of course most of it is limiting beliefs. Basically all problems in life culminate in limiting beliefs. And what you cannot change (IE your height) you accept. 

[AION]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This is a good assessment. 

In my 20s I saw lots of this dynamic - within my social circle one guy was very attractive and sought after by the women. He fucked it all up by banging with them all behind their backs. Basically, shit in the paddle pool. My girlfriends at the time all wanted this guy, and all seriously thought they had something special and individual with him - they were all hiding the fact they were fucking him from each other. Mental.

I think there is a huge hurdle for incels that is almost insurmountable. Social isolation and the insular way modern society is structured enables reclusiveness to an extreme degree that can retard social growth. And without the social rapport with women the only draw cards are flashy qualities like looks, charm, humor etc. Clubs, bars.

My perspective is limited because I always operated in social circles and saw sex and dating from that lens.

I only stopped being in romantic relationships by choice. I decided to work on myself for a while. I actively dropped my social circles as they no longer served me.

But the fact *I* made the choice is the difference between currently feeing content - and feeling like I have no control and operate from scarcity.

Being on this forum opened my eyes to the plight of men who aren't as socialized out of consequence.

Maybe that guy didn’t fuck it up but aced it from his POV. Probably that guy had so many options that he didn’t mind to pee in the friendship pool.  Especially if he didn’t have anything to lose. That guy was attractive in the first place because he was detached and playing the field. If he acted like an incel; clingy, needy and codependent, he wouldn’t have gotten laid and not be popular in the first place. If a guy is an incel, the solution is not to find one gf. His aim should be to create abundance of options because that will give him the freedom to express himself authentic way without a fear of losing her. That is what charisma/charm really is. It doesn’t come from being a nice guy. 

[Princess Arabia]

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how women have it easy for sex and how men are having a hard time getting laid and how women don't know what men go through to get laid and how you have to be a Brad Pitt and blah blah blah. While it's true women can get laid in 5mins if she wanted to because all she has to do is offer and there's a guy waiting at Walmart to oblige or all she has to do is wear a short skirt or look pretty or high heels or long hair and if she's fat and ugly she has to be a bit more aggressive and flat out offer the pumpum for sale and go out just saying here it is, shit ive seen fat ugly hookers getting paid so nothing to give it up for free. The key words here is IF SHE WANTED TO. Problem is, most women aren't just looking to get laid like most men are and which is obvious by reading this section of the forum. Not much here about love and liking women and hanging around women because they're fun or just loving women's energy or nothing like that all about getting laid, laid, laid, laid, laid, laid, laid,. Shit it took 3pts of a video series to explain the process. Only the ones here in serious relationships really care about women for women's and that's why you never see them in this section, not much, and if they are is to talk about their lovely sexcapades. 

Of course I'm exaggerating and being a bit silly here but the point is all you have to do is check the stats. There are plenty of men getting laid and plenty of women who are not. Doesn't matter. This is not a general thing, this a personalized issue, it depends on the man and depends on the woman. All one has to do is take themselves out the picture for a day or two and just look around them and see the couples. Go to a movie theater and see them in droves, go to a restaurant and see them hanging out just look around you and the couples are there. Go to the mall, go anywhere and stop looking for pretty women that day and you'll see tons of obvious couples around. You won't notice if you're drooling over that hot bitch across the way. Not at night clubs, or a bar, but normal day-to-day life. They're everywhere both attractive and not but that's all relative. Too much talking and not enough action. I bet you most of those men aren't just looking to get laid either. They actually love women and love to be around them. That's the trick guys. Not just to get laid. Women can sense that. So up that game a bit to actually want to be around them for that sake and not just to get in their panties. I see more couples than I see singles all the time. Idk, maybe because I live in a tourist town and where lots of entertainment is but it doesn't matter.

 

[Joshe]

The true power of the social circle is in building a good, solid reputation, and letting your social circle naturally do the work for you. If you have 10-20 people who all think you’re a great guy with good quality X, those are like 20 advertisements for you. 

With social circle, it’s also a numbers game. The more you put yourself out there, the more eyeballs you get and the more people talk about you. For this to be effective, you just go about building a solid reputation such that people want you around. From there, develop a persona or hook that women are interested in. Probably the best hook is humor, but this often doesn’t come natural for logical types like myself, so my hook was I was intelligent, deep, mysterious, and humorous in my own way. 

The point is, you develop your own persona on top of integrity (so people will like you), and when others see you are liked, they want to be around you too. It creates an effortless snowball effect. 

Many girls said I was ugly in high school, but via building popularity, I slept with some of the hottest girls in the school, and it all came from letting others advertise for me. The compounding effect can be runaway. This happened to me. The 3 hottest girls in my 10th grade year saw me hanging out with popular senior guys and so they brought me into their tight-knit group. From there, the entire school saw me walking around and hanging out with these 3 hot girls all the time, which made hot seniors interested and only made me more popular with the guys, which made me even more popular with the girls. Many girls were perplexed at why I was liked so much because they considered me unattractive. 

I eventually poisoned the entire well out of idiocy but I’m living proof that an average or even below average guy can easily get laid via social circle. For me, all of this was quite effortless. I was just being myself. I was quite shocked when it was all happening, because literally all I did was become friends with popular guys. The cascade from that was insane and effortless. When I moved away from home, I built my reputation anew and did the same thing again. Same effect.

 

Edited Thursday at 05:14 PM by Joshe

[Emerald]

@Joshe Honestly, building a social circle is super beneficial in so many ways. It also allows attractions to organically develop, which is what most women prefer anyway.

It's a shame that the past 20 years has seen such a decline in social connection. A lot of the guys who are struggling now to have sex and find a partner would not be struggling 20 years ago. 

They'd just be in some co-ed social circle as a teenager and some girl in the social circle would take a shine to them and that'd be it.

[aurum]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

That makes sense that that would be a challenge if there's far more men who are up for hook-ups than women. 

If it's 1 woman who's up for a hook-up for every 10 men looking for a hook-up, I could see that being a challenge.

I’m talking about very average clubs and bars, with average ratios of men to women though.

Yes, having more men than women will likely make things worse. But women also by default tend to be more ambiguous towards hook ups until they meet the right guy. So even in an ordinary environment with a decent ratio, you can still have this challenge.

To avoid encouraging a male-pity party, these situations are actually wildly advantageous if you’re able to handle them well. Almost nothing will cement her attraction for you like “winning” one of these social scuffles. 

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

It's a shame that the past 20 years has seen such a decline in social connection. A lot of the guys who are struggling now to have sex and find a partner would not be struggling 20 years ago. 

They'd just be in some co-ed social circle as a teenager and some girl in the social circle would take a shine to them and that'd be it.

True. I'm not up to date with how youngsters live these days but something tells me there's still a good bit of social gathering going on, because it just seems like a natural cure for boredom, especially when you're young. From what you and others say, everyone is literally just sitting in their rooms in chats and games. I'm sure this is true to a degree but not sure how much. I'm betting there's still ample opportunity for engaging a wide social circle, but IDK. 

[Emerald]

48 minutes ago, aurum said:

I’m talking about very average clubs and bars, with average ratios of men to women though.

Yes, having more men than women will likely make things worse. But women also by default tend to be more ambiguous towards hook ups until they meet the right guy. So even in an ordinary environment with a decent ratio, you can still have this challenge.

To avoid encouraging a male-pity party, these situations are actually wildly advantageous if you’re able to handle them well. Almost nothing will cement her attraction for you like “winning” one of these social scuffles. 

That is what meant by only 1 woman who's open to hook-ups for every 10 guys who are open to hook-ups.

I didn't mean that regarding the ratios of men and women in number of individuals in the establishment. I was assuming an equal number of men and women out at the club/bar.

[Emerald]

33 minutes ago, Joshe said:

True. I'm not up to date with how youngsters live these days but something tells me there's still a good bit of social gathering going on, because it just seems like a natural cure for boredom, especially when you're young. From what you and others say, everyone is literally just sitting in their rooms in chats and games. I'm sure this is true to a degree but not sure how much. I'm betting there's still ample opportunity for engaging a wide social circle, but IDK. 

I have children. My son is 10 and my daughter turns 14 in 2 days and is going into high school in a few weeks.

And I would say that her social group does seem to get together.... not quite as much as in my generation. But still here and there at least.

But a lot does happen via text as well. So, I think that a lot gets lost.

And I sense that it's moreso early-20-somethings that are struggling more who are not in a school environment.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

That is what meant by only 1 woman who's open to hook-ups for every 10 guys who are open to hook-ups.

I didn't mean that regarding the ratios of men and women in number of individuals in the establishment. I was assuming an equal number of men and women out at the club/bar.

Gotcha.

I wasn't sure.

[Yali]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

exceptional

How do you define exceptional in the eyes of women? Looks? @Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 hours ago, AION said:

Maybe that guy didn’t fuck it up but aced it from his POV. Probably that guy had so many options that he didn’t mind to pee in the friendship pool.  Especially if he didn’t have anything to lose. That guy was attractive in the first place because he was detached and playing the field. If he acted like an incel; clingy, needy and codependent, he wouldn’t have gotten laid and not be popular in the first place. If a guy is an incel, the solution is not to find one gf. His aim should be to create abundance of options because that will give him the freedom to express himself authentic way without a fear of losing her. That is what charisma/charm really is. It doesn’t come from being a nice guy. 

Unfortunately, it is a good case study for integrity. He stuffed himself up internally very badly. At the time I think he viewed what he was doing as 'acing it' as you phrase. But he walked away with extensive issues.

After he went through the above I dated him for 2 years. He was quite committed during this time & honest about it. But he wanted to go to therapy with me a year in - which I wasn't interested in. I didn't realise it at the time, but he was more committed and invested than me. I viewed him within the frame of previous history as a bit of a womaniser. This actually prevented me from engaging more deeply with him. I do regret this deeply, as I recognise I was holding his history against him instead of seeing the man before me. Truly, as he was.

I bounced after the therapy conversation.

He's a fireman now, married with a kid to a beautiful woman. 

Life goes strange ways

[Leo Gura]

19 hours ago, Emerald said:

For example, is it like for every 100 girls you approach you get 5 phone numbers and 1 close? 

It's way worse than that.

Edited Friday at 01:41 AM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Yali said:

How do you define exceptional in the eyes of women? Looks? @Leo Gura

High value.

This includes all the features women find important.

[joeyi99]

@Emerald You are delusional and trying to uphold some politically correct take.

It's a statistical fact majority of suicides are from men and a lot of it due to feelings of inadequacy and lack of sexual relationships. 

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, joeyi99 said:

You are delusional

Ease up please.