Where do you go to meet women now that you're in your 40s, Leo?

[Joshe]

11 hours ago, meta_male said:

@Joshe I mostly agree, but I’d still argue: some people see through the BS early. Not everyone needs 40 years to know what doesn’t feel real. The risk of developing complexes goes both ways...faking extroversion just to earn solitude can leave you just as miserable.

For me, the sweet spot is social exposure to stay grounded and connected, without bending myself to fit in. 

I'd never recommend changing who you are just to fit in. Introverts don't have to fake extroversion. There's really no faking what's inside. Just that they should expose themselves to social situations and learn how to endure them and exist inside them with relative comfort.

If you seclude yourself too early, you're cutting yourself off from many important life lessons. 

These days, I basically don't socialize at all, other than this forum. But I spent 30 years getting more than my fill, and I've consciously decided I don't want it because I now know what it entails and what the rewards and costs are. I think I'll likely return to being social when I'm done with my serious work. 

[OrangeOak]

Just a few things in response to what people have said:

You can’t fuck yourself up totally.

You can live an extroverted life that isn’t shallow or unspiritual. You don’t have to just go to clubs and bars, you can create an amazing, rich, social circle that provides you with all your social needs, including sex. 

The key is to let go of your own thoughts, such as “socialising is bs” or “I’m weird” etc. and be playful. Self-absorbtion kills your vibe. Other absorbtion is the key. 

I don’t think it’s possible to be happy living a secluded life unless you have met a certain amount of your social and sexual needs. 

People think socialising is hard. It’s only hard for the ego, but once you’re out of your head, notice how effortless it becomes.

I struggle with being self-absorbed, which makes it hard to connect, but I used to be very social, and it is the most joyous thing! 

Be outrageous, people. Out. RAGEOUS! 

Edited July 26 by OrangeOak
Typo

[Basman]

On 23/07/2025 at 10:53 PM, zazen said:

Like a narcissistic dog you say .. 😂

Awkward way to stand and hold a hand while the mics in the other.. homie just trying to establish 45sec of kino contact to unlock cosmic levels of attraction and free love.

This hurts to watch.

How can someone possibly be this American and loud?

[Jannes]

On 23.7.2025 at 10:53 PM, zazen said:

 

 

It wasnt that stupid imo. Owen asked what the name of her favourite pet is and answering dog is so unexpectitly unoriginal that it opens up some 'adorable energy' is in the air and if you are in the right state of mind and sensitive enough you can use and cherish this opportunity. Owen did it in a way where he made fun of it, but not from above but also by making fun of himself. 

Edited July 28 by Jannes

[Emerald]

On 7/22/2025 at 5:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

Perhaps after all my spiritual work is done I will be more inclined.

At the moment I crave total isolation.

Do you actually crave total isolation? 

You socialize on this forum every day or nearly every day, quite a bit. And that's not total isolation.

It may be that the forum acts as a means of keeping your socialization tank full enough, such that you don't crave it from other sources. 

Funny enough, I used to identify with being a loner and enjoyer of solitude as a teenager... when I had the most social interaction built right into my environment. (And I still enjoy my alone time as I see moments of solitude as a space for what I refer to as "self-romance"... like I am taking myself on a date)

But when I was 20, I truly was alone to the point where if I was killed, no one would notice I was gone for a long time. And I realized then that it was only because I was getting my social support needs met that I could identify myself with solitude and find enjoyment in the solitude.

It was because I never truly had lack that I had the luxury to identify as a person who enjoys solitude. It was a very humbling experience that broke down that identity that I had been holding onto as a point of pride.... and as a means of differentiating myself as head and shoulders above there other people who are too shallow to see the value of solitude... and who "operate like sheep."

It was quite humbling to realize that I too am a sheep in need of a flock. And it's only in getting totally lost from the flock that the sheep realizes its nature.

[RendHeaven]

47 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It was quite humbling to realize that I too am a sheep in need of a flock.

Yes that's me as well

I do think Leo's actually different though

Leo is a GIGA-nerd about independence of mind. It's one of his highest values.

Given that the foundation of relationship is group-think (literally), it would be a natural roadblock towards Leo's entire MO.

Obviously the forum supplements some sort of socialization need for him.

but that doesn't contradict his desire to mostly be alone in contemplation

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Yes that's me as well

I do think Leo's actually different though

Leo is a GIGA-nerd about independence of mind. It's one of his highest values.

Given that the foundation of relationship is group-think (literally), it would be a natural roadblock towards Leo's entire MO.

Obviously the forum supplements some sort of socialization need for him.

but that doesn't contradict his desire to mostly be alone in contemplation

Leo isn't any different. He's human just like everyone else.

[RendHeaven]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Leo isn't any different.

No, he clearly loves solitude more than the majority of humans.

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

He's human just like everyone else.

Yes, but some rare humans actually love solitude more than the rest of us

Don't strawman Leo by conflating his highest value with your teenage inexperience

[Joshe]

Solitude is freedom, which is one of my highest values. I feel like I need maybe 85-95% solitude to be happy. It all depends on my energy though. 
 

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

No, he clearly loves solitude more than the majority of humans.

Yes, but some rare humans actually love solitude more than the rest of us

Don't strawman Leo by conflating his highest value with your teenage inexperience

I'm sure that Leo believes what he's saying. I believed what I was saying too when I was valuing and identifying with solitude.

But is it truly him loving solitude? Or is a way of rationalizing his own avoidant tendencies to himself by framing them more in the positive?

I know from personal experience that it's possible to believe the former... but to have the reality be the latter.

And if you didn't notice... he spends a lot of his time socializing on this forum. So, he says "I value solitude" to a group of people who values him and who see value in his pursuits... of whom he interacts with almost every single day.

So, he clearly values social interaction. He just doesn't identify himself as someone who values it as valuing social connection is common.

A pattern that I've experienced has been a strong identification and enjoyment of solitude... along with an attempt to make myself a rare person who is rare in quality and kind. But there is a pattern of using this to differentiate myself from other people as a way to feel "a cut above" others by "being the rare person" who enjoys solitude and who is aware enough to value things of a higher nature.

It's like being a special and extraordinary alien living among the dull and dreary ordinary humans. And there's an ego boost that comes along with that tendency that helps one distinguish themselves from the "contemptibly common" qualities of the masses.

But in my medicine journeys, I have recognized that there are deep patterns of disconnection that have come from years and years of differentiating myself from others... and conceptualizing of myself as alien-like in my divergences from the norm (including but not limited to a proclivity for solitude and the valuation of higher achievement and higher states of awareness... as well as an attempt to be a rare person).

And this coping strategy has many boons to it. You really can reach to heights that most people aren't so interested in reaching. And so much potential can be realized in this hyper-individuation path.

But it is usually borne out of first feeling different and alien in a bad way... such that one eventually embraces this difference and builds an identity of being alien in a good way.

And while this coping strategy has many positives to it, it creates a sense of disconnection from other people, from nature, and from the universe at large. And one feels that one cannot belong without proving one's self special and divergent through rarity of identity. 

I see these same kinds of patterns playing out in Leo's M.O. from the way he speaks about valuing solitude. It reminds me of me. So, I can't simply take his statements around valuing at face value (especially since he spends a lot of his time socializing).

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Emerald

I can say I am more solitary than most.

And I have had periods in my life of no contact with others - a month at the maximum. 

I was only able to endure it because there was a goal and meaning - making solitude very tolerable.

I need depth of connection. So quality shits on quantity for me. And it only needs to be one person.

In lieu of that - most of my casual social needs are met through going out alone. Art shows. Jazz clubs. Conventions. Taking the laptop or sketchpad to a cafe. People watching in large energy spaces with little contact. Just witnessing. These acts satisfy much of my social needs when I am more isolated. I don't need to interact per se, just witness.

Edited July 29 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Eskilon]

10 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Emerald

I can say I am more solitary than most.

And I have had periods in my life of no contact with others - a month at the maximum. 

I was only able to endure it because there was a goal and meaning - making solitude very tolerable.

I need depth of connection. So quality shits on quantity for me. And it only needs to be one person.

In lieu of that - most of my casual social needs are met through going out alone. Art shows. Jazz clubs. Conventions. Taking the laptop or sketchpad to a cafe. People watching in large energy spaces with little contact. Just witnessing. These acts satisfy much of my social needs when I am more isolated. I don't need to interact per se, just witness.

Literally me. 👁️🔍

#Witnessmaxxing #Voyeurmaxxing 

[Cireeric]

On 29.7.2025 at 4:50 AM, RendHeaven said:

Given that the foundation of relationship is group-think (literally), it would be a natural roadblock towards Leo's entire MO.

 

If you think that the foundation of relationship is group-think your understanding of relationship is seriously impoverished.

Relationship as basis for meaningfulness to occur at all would be another perspective much more rich. I think it is hard to imagine a human-being whose life would not be significantly enriched by a deep and meaningful relationship - Leo is no exception here.

You could even go deeper into metaphysical territory and argue that relationship is pretty fundamental to this whole thing called Life.

Edited Monday at 10:02 PM by Cireeric

[Mathdaddyg]

@Cireeric The best relationship you can have is with yourself. Knowing what this actually means you can connect with anyone. Literally be yourself , this forum is too much of spiritual wankfast and intellectual wankfast , takes away what actually works and that is being a human being first , ideas second.

[stephenkettley]

@Leo Gura I am curious, having gone on your current path, with you awakenings and inclinations towards exploring existence the way you do, what type of partner would you look for? Would they have to be into non-duality and awakening as well or would you just look for someone who is very conscious but pursues life in their own way? The reason I ask this question is because I am heading down a powerful path where I am eager to explore life to the same depth and so I wonder about this sometimes.

[PenguinPablo]

On 7/22/2025 at 0:27 PM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Not meaning to be condescending but how old are you all?

I am quite introverted and not social at all. 

Believe it or not, it could be a possibility those who prefer solitude now have had a full and rich social life when younger. Personally I have had that experience - and now am diving into something new alone. Half of you wouldn't believe how much social life I have had. You can't possibly understand life's growth stages until you get there. No amount of intellectualism is going to bring the same understanding as lived experience. 

Lots of ignorance in this thread. Lots of hearsay and beliefs. 

 

 

 

Exactly. It falls on deaf ears because for most humans, they are desperate for social approval especially in teen years and young adult life.

So of course their goals and insecurity, unconscious needs for validation and social approval bleeds through into this so called and glorified "socializing".

To not see this demonstrates immense blindness and self deception. 

Edited 17 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[Emerald]

On 7/29/2025 at 1:00 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Emerald

I can say I am more solitary than most.

And I have had periods in my life of no contact with others - a month at the maximum. 

I was only able to endure it because there was a goal and meaning - making solitude very tolerable.

I need depth of connection. So quality shits on quantity for me. And it only needs to be one person.

In lieu of that - most of my casual social needs are met through going out alone. Art shows. Jazz clubs. Conventions. Taking the laptop or sketchpad to a cafe. People watching in large energy spaces with little contact. Just witnessing. These acts satisfy much of my social needs when I am more isolated. I don't need to interact per se, just witness.

I have also always been quite a solitary person myself... since childhood.

But one of the major take-aways that I've gotten from my medicine journeys in recent years is that I am less open to socializing because of certain emotional labors and blocks that come up when I socialize... and not because I don't like to connect with people.

So, it was clear to me that my lifelong tendency towards solitude has always been more of a coping mechanism than it is something authentic to me. But I always romanticized my solitary ways... as they are something I saw as making me rare and special. And I still like some creative me-time... a little every day.

And in that medicine experience I recognized that, deeper down, there is part of me that wants and needs far more connection... but that there is a deep visceral aversion to it. It showed this to me in the "emotional bite" that I felt (and have always unconsciously felt in years prior) when thinking of communal words (like relationship, community, church, etc."

And I have recognized in recent years how much community is a fundamental human need for all humans that cannot be forgone without negative emotional and psychological consequences... which are often unconscious but pervasive. And it only makes sense, because human beings have never survived alone. In this way, all solitude is and has always been just an illusion of solitude.

So, I do tend to take people who identify with solitude as being like I have been most of my life... mistaken about their solitary nature... and unconscious to the real blocks to belonging and connection that they are afflicted by, which impacts them semi-unconsciously and unconsciously on many levels of their being.

And a major culprit from that is an identity of being "the different one"... which is also a commonality of people on this forum because of the attraction to Leo's content and methods of delivery which build on the identity of divergence and specialness that he also subscribes to. 

One can build quite a positive and efficacious self-identity out of being the rare person who doesn't need to engage in the lowly business of common socialization. It's very enlivening in those regards... and it emboldens people to carve their own path.

But on the flip-side, these identities also keep one disconnected from humanity, nature, and the universe at large... feeling like a stranger in a strange land... and coping with that feeling by romanticizing one's rarity and role as the stranger. It is one who never gets to feel "home" here.

And this sense of being the "island unto one's self" is common among the ilk of people who seek something greater than the ordinary and mediocre.

But I saw for myself that the way to genuinely be greater is to sink deeply into the ordinary... and to allow one's self to be part of the furniture of the world.

Plus, let's also be very self-honest about what we're all doing on this forum. We're coming here nearly every single day, just to socialize. That includes Leo.

So, while the commonly held belief of those on this forum may be one of seeing solitude as superior to community... that is just a way to signal a kind of intellectual superiority to the communal out-group and a sense of in-group belonging within this higher minded in-group. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

And a major culprit from that is an identity of being "the different one"... which is also a commonality of people on this forum because of the attraction to Leo's content and methods of delivery which build on the identity of divergence and specialness that he also subscribes to. 

I am more bent to the opposite direction - I feel very mundane and always have. Very basic, very boring. I felt my lived experience was very similar to most - although deep down I was rejecting this difference I felt. 

I never expressed a lot of myself to the external world in an open, authentic & earnest way because I didn't think there was much there to be interested in. Obviously this is tied to having dogshit self worth - which was my main issue, since resolved. Fear of my own potential was another one I had to get at with the demolition crew  

When I did open up - boy was I shown something amazing! My perspective was welcomed - and not just welcomed - treated like it was alien. And many interactions I have with people - especially when they get close to me - become like this strange thing where I can sense them looking into the abyss within me and they have NO IDEA what they are looking at. And neither do I.... 

Because I grew up with no TV in an artists studio, removed from normal reality, surrounded by taxidermied animals and human skulls, I have this way of looking at things that is non-standard. I lack of a lot of the beliefs that others have. I understand it now as being akin to someone trying to render a drawing of a vase of flowers. People who proclaim to 'not be able to draw' are literally trying to render the vase how they see it - and what comes out falls short. They feel they have failed - but its not a skill failure - its a failure to really see the constituents of the flowers in the vase. They didn't see it how I saw it. I see negative and positive space, I see the vanishing perspective slightly distorting the form, I see the colours of the objects all around that illuminate the flowers in the vase that the brain filters out. I see a series of shadows and light hitting objects. A cylinder for the vase and millions of circles making the flowers. So I really have this positive outlook for others - I firmly believe people are capable of amazing things. It is just their perspective - that they think they see - holding them back. Like rendering the vase, not a skill issue, a failure to really see what is in front of them. The skill can come later with simple practice. But seeing accurately is key. The truth of the flowers in the vase. 

Obviously this isn't totally unique at all - simply a creative artists mindset I suspect - but it is a huge difference I simply never realised. But this way of looking at things applied to much of my existence. Even in my construction work - I perceive things others do not. Which means I effortlessly execute things in a way my colleagues do not understand. It is outside their experience so they simply have no idea what is happening. They think it is this magical juju I do... HAHA!

It was how I saw things around me that made me different - I had an embedded, deconstructed view. I give credit to my late grandfather for this perspective. 

Because I never got seriously close to many people regarding this internal vision and how I perceive - I honestly felt I was NOT special. I just knew there was a difference and had no fucking idea what it was. Peoples reaction to me was the evidence of some difference, but I couldn't understand because of us all being locked in our own perception. 

I projected out my experience, resulting in a lot of frustration with others - and rejection of them as a result. The whole process of attempting to see how I see and showing another was this arduous task I honestly couldn't be fucked engaging in. It is worth it to me now. I just acknowledge the effort of it all. I don't need many people. Just a couple of gems  I did get a lot of connection and socialisation when younger. Went aloof, and now a slow return to connection. But seeking a depth I know can be experienced - I just haven't found it yet.

I digress - but just sort of marvelling at the differences there! Most of the issue with thinking I was mundane was a product of never really letting anyone in

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

But I saw for myself that the way to genuinely be greater is to sink deeply into the ordinary... and to allow one's self to be part of the furniture of the world.

Yep this, I enjoy this. I think the ordinary and mundane is where all the juice of truth lies... No one would think to look there MUAHAHAHAH!

Edited 8 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru