Emerald

Why Women Prefer Betas

436 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

lol people trying so hard to figure out half of the world’s population to try to gain an advantage. You will never figure out half of the population because they’re all individuals. What you can do instead is figure out yourself and that will get you a long way

People do all this figuring out because they wanna have advantage in the dating market. The thing is that when you form a view in your head of “how women work” , when you meet a woman it’s like you’re overlooking some of her individuality and you instead see in front of you this projected idea of “how women work” that you have gathered/developed over the years. It’s like you’re not meeting her at face value but rather your own idea of women is warping your view of her and affecting the pure interaction

Edited by Sugarcoat

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

People do all this figuring out because they wanna have advantage in the dating market. The thing is that when you form a view in your head of “how women work” , when you meet a woman it’s like you’re overlooking some of her individuality and you instead see in front of you this projected idea

❤️

1 hour ago, something_else said:

I think women typically prefer balanced men. It is not really correct to say they prefer betas or alphas. The ideal is a man who is masculine, but not so masculine that they become scary. Confident, but not arrogant. Physically strong, but not obscene looking. You get the idea.

❤️

Edited by Xonas Pitfall

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1 hour ago, AION said:

Perhaps in some cases. Doesn’t change the ordeal of women who punch above their weight and trying to get a prize they can’t get. Most women overvalue what they have to offer and demand too much. It is not a good deal for men. Men don’t have a biological clock so we can wait it out. 

Who is a specific example of a woman that you know personally who overvalues what they have to offer and demands too much?

And who is a specific woman that you know personally who has gone through the process of being "ran through" and then sour graping about having to settle for a "beta man"?

And it can't just be "there was a woman on the internet who was saying it" because it's very lucrative for women to feed into these male insecurity narratives.

I literally can't think of ANY woman that this describes. I've only heard men who are sour-graping about women being able to get easy sex espouse this narrative.

And I have known plenty of women... with some of them being very promiscuous women.

Mind you, hyper-promiscuity doesn't tend to lead to good places. But the promiscuous player guys that promiscuous women go for early on are similar to the promiscuous player guys that promiscuous women go for later on.

But it doesn't really change with her body count. It's more of a character compatibility thing.

But if you personally know a woman this describes, do share. Or are you just watching too much red pill content?


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Posted (edited)

I was asking myself the other month what is an alpha woman? 

In this context, would men prefer an alpha woman or a beta woman?

Maybe the contrast here is what men consider an alpha men to be VS what women consider it to be; and viceversa. I'd say that for me is who could fuck me up in a fight and who is the leader. For women would be those two plus who'd be a good father. 

Edited by Davino

God-Realize, this is First Business. Know that unless I live properly, this is not possible.

There is this body, I should know the requirements of my body. This is first duty.  We have obligations towards others, loved ones, family, society, etc. Without material wealth we cannot do these things, for that a professional duty.

There is Mind; mind is tricky. Its higher nature should be nurtured, then Mind becomes Wise, Virtuous and AWAKE. When all Duties are continuously fulfilled, then life becomes steady. In this steady life GOD is available; via 5-MeO-DMT, because The Sun shines through All: Living in Self-Love, Realizing I am Infinity & I am God

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1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

lol people trying so hard to figure out half of the world’s population to try to gain an advantage. You will never figure out half of the population because they’re all individuals. What you can do instead is figure out yourself and that will get you a long way

People do all this figuring out because they wanna have advantage in the dating market. The thing is that when you form a view in your head of “how women work” , when you meet a woman it’s like you’re overlooking some of her individuality and you instead see in front of you this projected idea of “how women work” that you have gathered/developed over the years. It’s like you’re not meeting her at face value but rather your own idea of women is warping your view of her and affecting the pure interaction

This is exactly the reason why I'm making posts like this, as there's just so much internet male brainwashing going on relative to what women like.

And they're trying to use it to get better with women and trust in it so much that they don't realize how much less attractive it makes them.

You can't even connect with a guy who thinks this way. He just gets so swallowed up in his insecurity narratives from internet echo chambers that he makes himself repellent in the eyes of most women.

But he has learned things like, "Never listen to women about what they want." And so, he gets locked into these narratives that make him less and less and less attractive to women that would otherwise like him.

When men buy into these narratives, they become like petty porcupines that barb women and Feminine whenever they get too close. So, it drives women away.

And then, when women don't like them, they go... "She would like me if I were more hyper-Masculine. Let me double down on these narratives."

That's the problem of mistaking the antidote as the poison... and the poison as the antidote.


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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I'm a critic of the black pill but there are some decent blackpill communities where dudes just wanna improve their looks. 

I will admit, their epistemic foundation is completely rotten though, 

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11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

This is exactly the reason why I'm making posts like this, as there's just so much internet male brainwashing going on relative to what women like.

And they're trying to use it to get better with women and trust in it so much that they don't realize how much less attractive it makes them.

You can't even connect with a guy who thinks this way. He just gets so swallowed up in his insecurity narratives from internet echo chambers that he makes himself repellent in the eyes of most women.

But he has learned things like, "Never listen to women about what they want." And so, he gets locked into these narratives that make him less and less and less attractive to women that would otherwise like him.

When men buy into these narratives, they become like petty porcupines that barb women and Feminine whenever they get too close. So, it drives women away.

And then, when women don't like them, they go... "She would like me if I were more hyper-Masculine. Let me double down on these narratives."

That's the problem of mistaking the antidote as the poison... and the poison as the antidote.

Have you had clients like this or met people like that? I'd actually love to see a thread where you share your experiences and how you understand this psychology or how it develops, maybe even a YouTube video...? Hehe :x


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@Leo Gura Do you still approach girls in the daytime?


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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2 hours ago, Emerald said:

And it's causing men to get bitter and repel women... which is causing the male loneliness epidemic.

I think sometimes, though you are very inteligent, you like to give opinions on things you don't trully grasp or understand. This being one of them. You should realize that it is genuinelly harder for men to socialize than it is for women, partly even due to biological factors. Also men tend to limit their socialization to certain activities that they do together, whereas women can just socialize anywhere and everywhere, with no preconcieved suspicions or stigma being placed upon them. They also tend to make deeper emotional bonds than men, for whatever that's worth ofc, sonetimes they're fake, but that doesn't matter, it's besides the point. You think just by you hearing out opinions of couple of paranoid women, and noticing every little miniscule trend on the internet which most people don't even know about nor do they care, makes you understand this topic? Well, my position is that it has nothing to do with mysagony. Maybe you should step back and think of this from a different angle


Blind leading the blind

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You have a unique mind @Emerald

Your level of development do not represent women in general. 

You are an outlier, mature and spiritually aware woman. 

 

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I think sometimes, though you are very inteligent, you like to give opinions on things you don't trully grasp or understand. This being one of them. You should realize that it is genuinelly harder for men to socialize than it is for women, partly even due to biological factors. Also men tend to limit their socialization to certain activities that they do together, whereas women can just socialize anywhere and everywhere, with no preconcieved suspicions or stigma being placed upon them. They also tend to make deeper emotional bonds than men, for whatever that's worth ofc, sonetimes they're fake, but that doesn't matter, it's besides the point. You think just by you hearing out opinions of couple of paranoid women, and noticing every little miniscule trend on the internet which most people don't even know about nor do they care, makes you understand this topic? Well, my position is that it has nothing to do with mysagony. Maybe you should step back and think of this from a different angle

This is a valid point, but more often, the issue is that many women do communicate their needs clearly in relationships. They’ll say things like, “Hey, show that you've thought of me,” “Please plan more dates,” “Can you reassure me here? Can you help me with this?”. These are reasonable, emotionally healthy requests.

But a lot of men, due to social conditioning and avoidant tendencies, misinterpret these things. They may see it as nagging, neediness, weakness, irrationality, when in reality, it's just a bid for emotional connection.

So the question becomes: how do you navigate a relationship with someone like that? You can try to be patient and communicate gently, assuming they just weren’t taught how to build deep emotional bonds. But if they continue to be disinterested, dismissive, or closed off, it’s incredibly painful. And yet, women are often expected to carry the emotional labor in that dynamic. The core pillar of any meaningful relationship is emotional depth, connection, and safety. If a person can’t offer that - and they’re also highly disagreeable (which, statistically, men are more likely to be) - it makes the relationship nearly impossible to maintain. You can see why so many women eventually choose to walk away from that dynamic.

To put it in perspective: imagine asking your girlfriend for more sexual intimacy, and she constantly shuts you down, makes no effort, and leaves you feeling ignored. Eventually, you’d stop asking. You’d either assume she doesn’t care, or you’d become resentful. That’s exactly how it feels emotionally for many women in these situations. And the rise of red-pill ideologies only makes this worse, saying, “Women are too emotional, irrational, and don’t know what they want, so don’t listen to them.” Just focus on becoming more “alpha,” masculine, and stoic, and you’ll be able to get whoever you want.

It’s like wanting to play golf but refusing to learn how to swing. If you want a healthy relationship, emotional connection, and socialization isn’t optional. Just like someone who’s bad at math can’t be a financial analyst, someone who’s emotionally stunted and avoidant won’t be able to maintain a deep, stable relationship without growth and effort.

Yet, emotional awareness and vulnerability are rarely encouraged or taught in male spaces - in fact, they're often seen as weak, unmanly, or "gay." But think about it: as a man, you probably weren’t raised knowing how to train properly, eat well, or lift at the gym; you sought it out and learned. You weren’t born knowing game or confidence; you studied it and practiced. So why should developing emotional depth and vulnerability be any different? It’s a skill like any other, and just as essential if you want something meaningful.

Edited by Xonas Pitfall

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

Of course Brad Pitt is Masculine, but he isn't hyper-Masculine. 

That was one of the points that I'm making.

Men will tend to think women are interested in guys that look like He-Man because that's what they like in terms of male aesthetics and they think maxing out on Masculinity is the same thing as maxing out on attractiveness.

But women will tend to rate as most generally attractive guys that look like Christian Bale or Brad Pitt.

But that's just the most generally attractive guys.

Women will also aesthetically prefer more averagely strong guys to super buff hyper-Masculine guys even in more average men who aren't Hollywood sex symbols.

But just consider who gets to be a Hollywood sex symbol and who doesn't, as this will tell you a lot about women's aesthetic preferences... and Masculinity preferences regarding men.

Like, even in his prime... I guarantee you that very few women had pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger on their wall. He's hyper-Masculine... but most women would say that it's too much Masculinity to find attractive.

But I'm sure lots of people had Justin Timberlake on their wall... who has a mixture of hard and soft qualities.

Brad Pitt was an alpha male in his prime. Also, at the height of his sex appeal he looked like a Greek god with a lot of muscle and definition. After I watched the movie with my mom she was like "ohhh...my god...he looked so unbelievably handsome! So gorgeous! He really was so divine!"

 

Henry Cavill, Chris Hemsworth, and other attractive-looking male celebrity actors like them are very muscular and lean and are worldwide sex symbols.

brad-pitt-troy-2004-2K5EMJG.jpg

 

That being said, being extremely muscular and ripped like Arnold in his prime or the Rock is really unnecessary. In fact, most women will think that you just look like a steroid freak.

Edited by Hardkill

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1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Have you had clients like this or met people like that? I'd actually love to see a thread where you share your experiences and how you understand this psychology or how it develops, maybe even a YouTube video...? Hehe :x

Yes, I have worked with clients who have had some of these patterns.

Really, it comes from an obligation to meet some arbitrary standard of Masculinity and feeling inadequate relative to that expectation as the expectation is unrealistic... and then trying to push all signs of Femininity and softness away from one's self in order to be "the kind of guy that women want."

And then, because the man disconnects with the Feminine in himself, he develops both an obsession and an aversion towards women who he wants to have fill the hole that was left where his Feminine side should be.

And it creates a dynamic where women feel all-powerful and that women's opinion carries this external validation currency in this projection. And this creates a simultaneous pedestalization and goddess worship towards women... coupled with a jealousy, hatred, and bitterness towards women who he likes better than he likes himself.

And men who are in these patterns will police each others' level of Masculinity... and these same men will project the Masculinity policing that men do onto women as a whole group and assume that women are similarly policing men and prefer the standards that men expect other men to reach up to.

These are common patterns... and come from shame at its core associated with being saddled with arbitrary and unrealistic standards of Masculinity to match up to. And this shame dynamic leads through to Anima issues.

But with my sessions, I ask a lot more questions and make a lot fewer statements... as it's far more effective to help someone get to the core of where certain beliefs come from.

It's an unfortunate drawback of the context of the forum, as it's people sharing statements... instead of questions.

But I also would not be interested in interacting on the forum if it were to only be me asking a lot of questions. It's more interested to share perspectives in this context.

And I keep hammering away at this, because I have a front-row seat to what women really like about men. They tend to go "Yeah, but you're an unusual woman." But I am genuinely not unusual in this way. 

Men just have a hard time believing that women will like them for who they are as people.

Really, all a guy has to do to have some women attracted to them is to generally develop themselves as people, learn to socialize in a variety of contexts, and get more comfortable being themselves. 

None of the shenanigans that these online echo chambers are espousing is necessary.


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38 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

You have a unique mind @Emerald

Your level of development do not represent women in general. 

You are an outlier, mature and spiritually aware woman. 

 

I agree 

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17 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Brad Pitt was an alpha male in his prime. Also, at the height of his sex appeal he looked like a Greek god with a lot of muscle and definition. After I watched the movie with my mom she was like "ohhh...my god...he looked so unbelievably handsome! So gorgeous! He really was so divine!"

Henry Cavill, Chris Hemsworth, and other attractive-looking male celebrity actors like them are very muscular and lean and are worldwide sex symbols.

brad-pitt-troy-2004-2K5EMJG.jpg

Yes, Cavill and Hemsworth are attractive men. And Brad Pitt is handsome in this as well.... but he's more attractive with more a more subtly muscular body.

It's just that these body types don't tend to be the most highly rated body types among women as a whole group.

That said, a handsome guy is a handsome guy. These guys are all Hollywood heartthrobs, mind you.

So, even if his body type isn't the one most women consider to be ideal, they will likely still respond positively to it because they are just such handsome guys.

That said, most women would probably find this leaner and subtly muscular version of Brad Pitt more attractive than the one above where he looks totally jacked...

 

Brad Pitt.jpg


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50 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

You have a unique mind @Emerald

Your level of development do not represent women in general. 

You are an outlier, mature and spiritually aware woman. 

 

Number one, these things have been studied. And the studies do reflect what I've experienced in my subjective experience relative to how women respond to male attractiveness... both generally and towards a particular man.

Number two, if there was a uniquely minded man who was more mature and spiritually aware than most men, would he find women with Feminine features and an hourglass figure unattractive?

If not, consider that my perspective is one that's quite average for women to have as it comes to what women find attractive about men.

I am perhaps just able to communicate it more thoroughly than most women who might not tend to analyze their instinctual and emotional responses as much as I do.

I wish I could turn you all into heterosexual women for like a year... and then you'd organically develop really intense romantic and sexual feelings for some regular guy you happen to work with who's more subtly Masculine, and you'd be like, "Ohh!!! We've been being so stupid about this topic. We're sorry Emerald."


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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57 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This is a valid point, but more often, the issue is that many women do communicate their needs clearly in relationships. They’ll say things like, “Hey, show that you've thought of me,” “Please plan more dates,” “Can you reassure me here? Can you help me with this?”. These are reasonable, emotionally healthy requests.

But a lot of men, due to social conditioning and avoidant tendencies, misinterpret these things. They may see it as nagging, neediness, weakness, irrationality, when in reality, it's just a bid for emotional connection.

So the question becomes: how do you navigate a relationship with someone like that? You can try to be patient and communicate gently, assuming they just weren’t taught how to build deep emotional bonds. But if they continue to be disinterested, dismissive, or closed off, it’s incredibly painful. And yet, women are often expected to carry the emotional labor in that dynamic. The core pillar of any meaningful relationship is emotional depth, connection, and safety. If a person can’t offer that - and they’re also highly disagreeable (which, statistically, men are more likely to be) - it makes the relationship nearly impossible to maintain. You can see why so many women eventually choose to walk away from that dynamic.

To put it in perspective: imagine asking your girlfriend for more sexual intimacy, and she constantly shuts you down, makes no effort, and leaves you feeling ignored. Eventually, you’d stop asking. You’d either assume she doesn’t care, or you’d become resentful. That’s exactly how it feels emotionally for many women in these situations. And the rise of red-pill ideologies only makes this worse, saying, “Women are too emotional, irrational, and don’t know what they want, so don’t listen to them.” Just focus on becoming more “alpha,” masculine, and stoic, and you’ll be able to get whoever you want.

It’s like wanting to play golf but refusing to learn how to swing. If you want a healthy relationship, emotional connection, and socialization isn’t optional. Just like someone who’s bad at math can’t be a financial analyst, someone who’s emotionally stunted and avoidant won’t be able to maintain a deep, stable relationship without growth and effort.

Yet, emotional awareness and vulnerability are rarely encouraged or taught in male spaces - in fact, they're often seen as weak, unmanly, or "gay." But think about it: as a man, you probably weren’t raised knowing how to train properly, eat well, or lift at the gym; you sought it out and learned. You weren’t born knowing game or confidence; you studied it and practiced. So why should developing emotional depth and vulnerability be any different? It’s a skill like any other, and just as essential if you want something meaningful.

Well said. :) 


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Really, all a guy has to do to have some women attracted to them is to generally develop themselves as people, learn to socialize in a variety of contexts, and get more comfortable being themselves. 

I think this is actually a crucial point. A lot of guys who fall into red pill spaces often haven’t developed themselves yet – many are young, inexperienced, or lacking guidance. For them, red pill content can serve as their first real introduction to self-improvement: work out, get fit, build confidence, improve your finances, develop discipline, take responsibility, and embrace masculinity.

To be fair, for many so-called "betas" – typically meaning insecure, overly people-pleasing, unassertive guys with weak boundaries or low ambition – the initial push toward self-respect and masculinity can actually be really beneficial. If you’ve spent your whole life trying to please women by being overly agreeable and "simp-y", some tough love can be a wake-up call.

However, since most mainstream spaces avoid directly saying that confidence and assertiveness are key to attracting women, a lot of guys don’t find that advice useful. Red pill spaces, on the other hand, say it bluntly and forcefully, in a very visceral way, usually framed around sexual success. ("Want to get laid? Here's how."). And because that message is often the first thing that works for them, appealing to the "lizard brain" or giving them real results, it becomes easy to disregard anything else.

"This is the only thing that got me somewhere, so why would I listen to people who never helped me in the first place?" And when that’s mixed with a "matrix" or anti-society narrative - that the world is against men and only this space tells you the truth - it starts to take on a cult-like effect. The initial success with self-improvement becomes the bait, and then the rest of the ideology gets accepted without question.


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6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Number two, if there was a uniquely minded man who was more mature and spiritually aware than most men, would he find women with Feminine features and an hourglass figure unattractive?

That particular point works against your argument though.

An hourglass figure is hyper-femininity.


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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1 minute ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I think this is actually a crucial point. A lot of guys who fall into red pill spaces often haven’t developed themselves yet – many are young, inexperienced, or lacking guidance. For them, red pill content can serve as their first real introduction to self-improvement: work out, get fit, build confidence, improve your finances, develop discipline, take responsibility, and embrace masculinity.

To be fair, for many so-called "betas" – typically meaning insecure, overly people-pleasing, unassertive guys with weak boundaries or low ambition – the initial push toward self-respect and masculinity can actually be really beneficial. If you’ve spent your whole life trying to please women by being overly agreeable and "simp-y", some tough love can be a wake-up call.

However, since most mainstream spaces avoid directly saying that confidence and assertiveness are key to attracting women, a lot of guys don’t find that advice useful. Red pill spaces, on the other hand, say it bluntly and forcefully, in a very visceral way, usually framed around sexual success. ("Want to get laid? Here's how."). And because that message is often the first thing that works for them, appealing to the "lizard brain" or giving them real results, it becomes easy to disregard anything else.

"This is the only thing that got me somewhere, so why would I listen to people who never helped me in the first place?" And when that’s mixed with a "matrix" or anti-society narrative - that the world is against men and only this space tells you the truth - it starts to take on a cult-like effect. The initial success with self-improvement becomes the bait, and then the rest of the ideology gets accepted without question.

It's exactly like that.

And it's really sad and frustrating because I can see how these online echo chambers fool young men into "improving" themselves in ways that are actually counter-productive to them developing into high quality men.

It's like if women were all being brainwashed that women are only attracted to bald women... and that the men will deny it because "Don't ask a fish how to catch it!". So, these women are constantly shaving their heads because they are convinced that men will be repulsed to see hair growing on their head.

Then, when men try to tell them that they don't actually prefer bald women and like a woman with longer hair... the women are like, "Look at this deluded man. Never listen to a man about what he likes because he lies about it. Scientifically, men are wired to respond more to bald women because in nomadic times... blah blah blah. And you can tell because men like it when women shave their legs... so men are repulsed by women with hair on their heads."

And because it has that cult-like dynamic, you just can't even communicate to them or get through as they relate it to "secrets" of self-improvement that "women won't tell you they respond to."

And it feels like 2 steps forward... on a treadmill that's constantly pulling them backwards into worse versions of themselves.

They need to do a study where they have a bunch of guys who are exposed to a lot of Masculinity echo-chamber self-improvement content AND a bunch of guys who seek out more neutral self-improvement solutions.

Then, see how well each group does when it comes to both how well each group does with long-term relationships and the percentage of men in each group who never have sex with women.

And I'm quite confident that the latter will have a lot more success with women.


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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