Why Women Prefer Betas

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I think for many people with trauma bonding tendencies and attachment wounds, mature people get screened out as 'boring', 'no chemistry'.

I tend to give people a lot of time, as what is on the outside, and what they present initially, are totally different to what is within.

I do not trust intense chemistry. It blinds me to compatibility.

But I am a freak example as I really only give a shit about someone's mind. Their brain. Can they keep up with me? I run circles around a lot of people, and I need to be able to really talk about concepts and reality. Mechanics and driving forces. Of course there are other factors, these are just my top values. And yes you could say I have some arrogance, but I think I just have a good idea of what my capabilities are through a lot of experience.

I am sure I would come across as boring to most, initially. 

But I am happy with that as I would want to screen for maturity.

Someone who can actually deal with truth. And challenge me and my thought process.

[integral]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I was just asking you why you prepare yourself to date immature women... and whether it's preference or scarcity thinking.

Personally, I haven't found it difficult to find mature men or women. They do exist... in spades.

So, in my mind, I wanted to know why you're preparing yourself to date immature women... when you could just raise your standards and sort those women from consideration.

Sure, someone could always fall in love with an immature person. That could happen to anyone.

But my question is more along the lines of why you made the earlier statement around expecting to date immature women and planning and preparing as such. 

To me, it just came across as an indicator of scarcity mindset and preemptively not sorting out immature women from your dating pool... or as an indicator of a preference to date immature women.

Let’s say theres 15% of the population that are mature

A much smaller percentage of them are going to be dating

And then even a much smaller percentage of that are the people I have access to from random chance and dating apps

On top of that, you created a grotesque oversimplification of this category called “mature” that ignores the messy complicated lives people live, and compatibility between people

None of this is a real world

 

Edited June 17 by integral

[Puer Aeternus]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think for many people with trauma bonding tendencies and attachment wounds, mature people get screened out as 'boring', 'no chemistry'.

I tend to give people a lot of time, as what is on the outside, and what they present initially, are totally different to what is within.

Interesting, do you think a typical person would find you interesting in time? Or would they need to be operating from a similar level as you? 

It's really wild how functional a mask people can present initially. It's like its own game, the pretending it's all okay game. If I was still in my naive phase I'd think everyone is sane and all's peachy in the world. 

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

But I am a freak example as I really only give a shit about someone's mind. Their brain. Can they keep up with me? I run circles around a lot of people, and I need to be able to really talk about concepts and reality. Mechanics and driving forces. Of course there are other factors, these are just my top values. And yes you could say I have some arrogance, but I think I just have a good idea of what my capabilities are through a lot of experience.

I am sure I would come across as boring to most, initially. 

But I am happy with that as I would want to screen for maturity.

Someone who can actually deal with truth. And challenge me and my thought process.

Ahh yes, where to even find someone like that though  Where to even fish for a fellow "boring" person with overton window smashing takes and ways of thinking. Not even in intellectual circles or a spiritual community. Es una problema muy grande. 

But I suppose the universe pulls the strings in its own little cutesy, magical way. God'll toss an ideal match at the most random fuck off moment just to mess with you! Everything else was just a prank, the real work starts NOW.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Interesting, do you think a typical person would find you interesting in time? Or would they need to be operating from a similar level as you? 

Yes for sure, once they get over my initial appearance. Appearance has always been a big hurdle for me. I am not beautiful at all, but I think... striking? would be the correct term. So I would be attracting men who value this highly. But I do not want to be valued for my appearance. I want to be valued for my character and attributes. The struggle lies in waiting for men to see who I really am, as they tend to project a fantasy onto me based on what I look like. It takes a long time for them to see me for who I really am. This comes down to my own fault also, as I was not discerning enough with previous partners. Additionally, while I style myself how - I - like, this is attracting someone who values that. So I dig my own grave there. But for attraction to be maintained for me, the man has to be operating on a similar level.

I've found mature men in the older age brackets tend to value markers for someone that really looks after themselves: fitness, self care, emotional work and stability. They no longer value attributes that were unearned. Youth isn't as highly valued as it is just a phase we all go through. It catches the eye, and is admired. But it fades. All people must face this. As you age up the playing field begins to level out more. 

My own unique pathology is more around competence. I was handed so much, and given so much, so many doors of opportunity were opened PURELY because of my appearance. It made me SICK. To see the concessions made. How much nicer people were to me, simply because of appearance. As a result I drilled down hard on competency, and really threw myself into everything I do to master my abilities. I was lucky that I was gifted in artistic creativity and also intelligence. But in the back of my head was this horrible running program 'You are here in this position because someone likes your appearance, not because of how competent you are'. What a reverse mindfuck ay? But that was my issue for the first phase of my life. I was pretty emo and nihilistic as a result. How unfair the whole game is.... unattractive people get totally dicked.

My heart gets broken over and over again for anyone who wasn't lucky enough to be born looking a certain way... shattering.

But this lead me to work hard. Earn my position. Hone intellect. Read. Challenge myself. Face fears. I have no regrets.

As for finding a mature women who has their shit together? Jesus, I have no idea. I'd imagine hobbies would be a good one. I flat refuse dating apps. I refuse to engage in something that commodifies and whittles me down to pure appearance to gain interest. I suppose you would find a women who appreciates the type of consciousness work done here on meditation retreats, book clubs, engaging hobbies. Nature. Hiking. 

If there was ever an actualized.org meetup (or similar), I'd imagine some opportunity would lay there. 

Edited June 17 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Let’s say theres 15% of the population that are mature

A much smaller percentage of them are going to be dating

And then even a much smaller percentage of that are the people I have access to from random chance and dating apps

On top of that, you created a grotesque oversimplification of this category called “mature” that ignores the messy complicated lives people live, and compatibility between people

None of this is a real world

That answers my question. It's a scarcity mindset thing.

[Puer Aeternus]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I was handed so much, and given so much, so many doors of opportunity were opened PURELY because of my appearance. It made me SICK. To see the concessions made. How much nicer people were to me, simply because of appearance. As a result I drilled down hard on competency, and really threw myself into everything I do to master my abilities.

That's actually SO interesting  I've only ever seen attractiveness be doubled down on for their own benefit or somewhat treated as an annoyance due to all the attention. Let alone a full 360 spin in the opposite direction towards going extra hard for competency.

But, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. It does. Because looks aren't your primary thing, it's not what you want people to connect with you on! You want to be seen and appreciated for your character. Yet so many people giving you opportunities and attention just because of how you look?! It is ridiculous. It DOES sound like a mindfuck. It's like in your own way.. you were compensating? I'm more than my looks! See how much I can do! Do you see me yet?! 

How unfair the whole game is.... unattractive people get totally dicked.

Speaking as a representative of generally unattractive people. I think you're underestimating how much you have been dicked in comparison! It was a big chip on your shoulder and that's not nothing eh. Caused a whole emotional bender era! And it's still an annoying thing you have to filter people through.

For me, the looks were a problem for through all schooling years and there's still some lasting pains/insecurities. But unlike attractive people, I can straight GHOST mode life. I don't have to worry about existing in front of some man and instantly catching god-knows-wtf projections and horny attention. If they look at me.. well. They're going to look away pretty fast AHAHA and I LOVE IT  I don't have to worry about if romantic partners like me for me! 

I don't think the struggle gap is quite as large as people make it out to be. Both sides really struggle!

But yeahhh, makes sense! Men really do take more time age out of immaturity to fine wine. That extra life experience can really be golden and change everything. Truly, it isn't just DILF season. It's DILFs for life.

Mmm but in the end all that locking in led to actualizing your talents.  It was lots of work and emotional labor but brings me second hand joy to hear how well you're doing now! 

 

Edited June 17 by Puer Aeternus

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Puer Aeternus I like your vicarious bliss!

In the end its arriving at the same place, but walking different directions around the circular track of life.

Just maybe one gender has that dick rudder involved

[Puer Aeternus]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

In the end its arriving at the same place, but walking different directions around the circular track of life.

Just maybe one gender has that dick rudder involved

Oh, I 100% agree!! So different but so similar at the same time 

Heh, bless Rend and his rudder cock. I do still prefer to Helikopter though- to each their own! 

[integral]

11 hours ago, Emerald said:

That answers my question. It's a scarcity mindset thing.

Its not a mindset.

This is just projection of what a girl experiences, you have infinite options and therefore you just select the guys with maturity and integrity.

Males don't have infinite options.

If I wanna find high quality women I have to work my ass off.

Edited June 17 by integral

[integral]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

was just asking you why you prepare yourself to date immature women...

Your question is loaded. You're responding to me as if everything I said didn't matter because you JUST ask the basic question.

the question assumes there's two boxes and I fit into one of them.

So I'm talking instead about the nature of the boxs that you think are facts

Quote

Personally, I haven't found it difficult to find mature men or women. They do exist... in spades.

Not my experience.

We disagree.

Edited June 17 by integral

[meta_male]

@Emerald If abundance mindset changed who you attract, what shifted first? Your mindset or the people you met? Because I'm past the illusion of grinding to meet mature women. I do sense there's something to that mindset shift, but I have zero evidence except for girls circling more around me, waving, smiling and all that weak signal stuff.

[meta_male]

@Emerald ?

[Karmadhi]

On 6/10/2025 at 2:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

They are having sex with the top 10% of men.

Top 10% of men get 80% of women. Women are all sharing the top men because the top men don't commit, women just rotate through.

When we said this years ago on this chat you called it "toxic blackpill self biased garbage"  

Also something does not add up, why would a hot top 10% guy sleep with an average woman?

Or they sleep with both average and hot women?

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Or they sleep with both average and hot women?

correct.

most guys have low discernment

[Recursoinominado]

On 7/7/2025 at 8:30 AM, Karmadhi said:

Or they sleep with both average and hot women?

Yes, most "natural" guys i know are not very selective, they hook up with 10's and 5's, but they only commit to the best ones (for a while, at least). 

Also, because there is only a limited quantity of high-level men, and they usually commit only with high-level women, the bottom 80% of both men and women usually settle for each other but are never really satisfied. Average men can and do end up with high-value women, but never in their prime, only when they (the women) have exhausted their "hopes" of committing with an alpha.

Edited July 8 by Recursoinominado

[Zen LaCroix]

On 6/8/2025 at 4:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

It took a lot of deep soul-searching and painful truth-seeking.

Because I was so involved in pickup, I had some untrue ideas implanted into my mind early on.

In pickup it's very important to believe that looks don't matter at all. Because this increases your results.

The more you think looks matter the less laid you'll get. This is what blackpillers don't understand.

Pickup requires delusional confidence, as Owen likes to say. It's very true. You need to believe you are the sexiest guy in the world regardless of objective reality. I drank from that poisoned chalice.

Why should you believe otherwise if the belief is unhelpful and even detrimental to getting results