Why Women Prefer Betas

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

That particular point works against your argument though.

An hourglass figure is hyper-femininity.

Hyperfeminine: Overly sexualized appearance often shaped by excessive cosmetic enhancements (e.g. exaggerated lip fillers, Brazilian Butt Lift, oversized breast implants). High emotional reactivity, constant need for external validation, attention-seeking tendencies, and dramatic mood shifts.

Feminine: Naturally attractive with soft, elegant features - often hourglass-shaped, graceful, gentle, warm presence. Emotionally receptive, nurturing, and expressive without being chaotic.

Hypermasculine: Extremely muscular, steroids. Emotionally closed-off, overly aggressive, dominance-obsessed, hyper-competitive, promiscuous, and lacking emotional awareness or empathy.

Masculine: Leaner athletic build, confident and composed. Embodies quiet strength, emotional control, and a strong sense of direction. Calm demeanor, deep voice, and assertive but respectful presence.

If we define the terms this way, it becomes clear that the more balanced expressions of masculinity and femininity are generally more desirable and preferred by most people.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Xonas Pitfall @Xonas Pitfall vulnerability and trust is a 2 way street, that's all I'm going to say about that. Obviously I know all that other stuff you mentioned, I've heard it all before

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

To put it in perspective: imagine asking your girlfriend for more sexual intimacy, and she constantly shuts you down, makes no effort, and leaves you feeling ignored. Eventually, you’d stop asking. You’d either assume she doesn’t care, or you’d become resentful. That’s exactly how it feels emotionally for many women in these situations. And the rise of red-pill ideologies only makes this worse, saying, “Women are too emotional, irrational, and don’t know what they want, so don’t listen to them.” Just focus on becoming more “alpha,” masculine, and stoic, and you’ll be able to get whoever you want.

It would be like if women said:

"Well, society conditioned us to be conservative, pure, and to preserve our sexuality. We were taught not to be slutty or overly sexual - so how can you expect us to be amazing in bed? Please be patient with me and teach me..."

Then, when you try to communicate or guide them, they respond with:

"Ugh, men are always so horny and selfish. Stop pressuring me, stop asking me to be someone I'm not or do things I was never trained to do. Can't you just do your role as a man and provide for the family? Why should I have to develop myself in that area? Girls aren’t even into that stuff - porn and sex are for men anyway."

When in reality, sexuality is a core pillar of a healthy, lasting relationship, just like emotional connection and deep communication. Both people need to be open to growth in all areas, not just the convenient ones.

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, aurum said:

That particular point works against your argument though.

An hourglass figure is hyper-femininity.

An hourglass is just Femininity... not hyper-Femininity.

Hyper-Femininity is an exaggeration of Femininity... just like Hyper-Masculinity is an exaggeration of Masculinity.

It would be like if every woman were trying to model themselves after women with too much lip filler and gigantic breast implants... and believing they had to look like that to be attractive to men.

Here are some images that show the contrasts that I mean in starker terms in terms of whether a person presents in a more moderate or more exaggerated was relative to the Masculine/Feminine expressions.

[Xonas Pitfall]

2 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@Xonas Pitfall @Xonas Pitfall vulnerability and trust is a 2 way street, that's all I'm going to say about that. Obviously I know all that other stuff you mentioned, I've heard it all before

Yes! 100%

That’s why it’s so important not to emotionally shut down or see emotional growth as something “men just don’t do.” Just because you weren’t taught it doesn’t mean you can’t develop it. There are so many things society fails to prepare us for - whether it’s passion, finances, purpose, or even basic life skills - and we take responsibility to learn and grow in those areas. Emotional intelligence, social skills, and empathy are no different.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Hyperfeminine: Overly sexualized appearance often shaped by excessive cosmetic enhancements (e.g. exaggerated lip fillers, Brazilian Butt Lift, oversized breast implants). High emotional reactivity, constant need for external validation, attention-seeking tendencies, and dramatic mood shifts.

I'm strictly talking about physical appearance here.

Have you seen what most popular female pornstars look like? 

Edited June 9 by aurum

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

I'm strictly talking about physical appearance here.

Have you seen what most popular female pornstars tend to look like? 

Emerald gave a good visual example above. Would you say you find the first or second lady more attractive? That's what we mean when we compare hyperfeminine and hypermasculine, vs feminine and masculine.

[aurum]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Here are some images that show the contrasts that I mean in starker terms in terms of whether a person presents in a more moderate or more exaggerated was relative to the Masculine/Feminine expressions.

Well maybe we are defining terms differently then.

The woman on the top for me I think counts as hyper-femininity. Most women DO NOT look like her.

And while I would say I prefer the top woman, I still think the woman posted below her would do just fine on OF or as an Instagram model. She also has a lot of tattoos, which aren't stereotypically feminine.

I agree with your point about bodybuilders vs Brad Pitt though. I think most women in modern society would see Brad Pitt as more attractive.

[Xonas Pitfall]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

The woman on the top for me I think counts as hyper-femininity. Most women DO NOT look like her.

And while I would say I prefer the top woman, I still think the woman posted below her would do just fine on OF or as an Instagram model. She also has a lot of tattoos, which aren't stereotypically feminine.

Most men do not look like Brad Pitt either, haha.

Yes, but the main point is that most men, on average, would find the first woman more attractive. The same goes for women - both tend to prefer the less extreme, more balanced expressions of masculinity and femininity. I guess it also comes down to how we define these terms.

[AION]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

Who is a specific example of a woman that you know personally who overvalues what they have to offer and demands too much?

And who is a specific woman that you know personally who has gone through the process of being "ran through" and then sour graping about having to settle for a "beta man"?

And it can't just be "there was a woman on the internet who was saying it" because it's very lucrative for women to feed into these male insecurity narratives.

I literally can't think of ANY woman that this describes. I've only heard men who are sour-graping about women being able to get easy sex espouse this narrative.

And I have known plenty of women... with some of them being very promiscuous women.

Mind you, hyper-promiscuity doesn't tend to lead to good places. But the promiscuous player guys that promiscuous women go for early on are similar to the promiscuous player guys that promiscuous women go for later on.

But it doesn't really change with her body count. It's more of a character compatibility thing.

But if you personally know a woman this describes, do share. Or are you just watching too much red pill content?

I’m not watching any red pill nor do I need it. I watched Andrew Tate for a while but not for dating advice but for motivation. And I started a business thanks to him.

As for anecdotes, where I live there are tons of cat ladies who failed with love exactly for the reasons I told you.

Black pill is not only for men. Women can take the black pill too. And there is a dating crises, not just a man’s loneliness crises. And that is because men don’t have inherent value and nobody tells them. 

If you are a woman you can have the alphas run a train on you  in your 20’ies  and still find a nice guy at 30 to marry you and bite the bullet and let him put up with all the emotional baggage. 

You make it sounds like men and women are doing a race against each other. The path of individuation is different between men and women. 

I know couple of woman through my hobby and when I first saw them they were with this beta guy and I could just feel their resentment towards them. And now these ladies are all single but I already knew at first glance. Women can’t fake chemistry. Those women ate “steak” all of their life and now they have to downgrade to a “McDonald’s bun”. It creates a lot of anger and resentment. It can be clearly sensed with these women. 

Edited June 9 by AION

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

Well maybe we are defining terms differently then.

The woman on the top for me I think counts as hyper-femininity. Most women DO NOT look like her.

And while I would say I prefer the top woman, I still think the woman posted below her would do just fine on OF or as an Instagram model. She also has a lot of tattoos, which aren't stereotypically feminine.

I agree with your point about bodybuilders vs Brad Pitt though. I think most women in modern society would see Brad Pitt as more attractive.

What women think of as very Masculine is more subtle and is a mixture of hard and soft qualities... like the image of Brad Pitt above. (Of course, Brad Pitt is a more ideal expression of this... but most men have this mixture. And if they have confidence, there will be women who find it attractive.)

And it's very different than what men tend to think of as Masculine... where they might image body-builders or MMA fighters as very Masculine and as the standard to match up to.

But women aren't as attracted to that, generally speaking. But men often think women are interested in hyper-Masculine guys with no softness to them whatsoever.

And they often fall into the trap of thinking they have to be as hyper-Masculine (though usually not quite as extreme as the body-builder guy from the pic).

Men think they need to be King Leonidas from 300... when Tyler Durden is actually a lot more popular with women.

[Xonas Pitfall]

7 minutes ago, AION said:

If you are a woman you can have the alphas run a train on you  in your 20’ies  and still find a nice guy at 30 to marry you and bite the bullet and let him put up with all the emotional baggage. 

The same goes for men - you can spend your 20s chasing casual flings, only to reach your 40s or 50s and realize that many younger women aren’t genuinely interested in you, but in your money, status, or lifestyle. Then you’re stuck navigating relationships with a gold digger or someone bratty, immature, constantly needing validation, and lacking emotional depth or partnership.

Or, you might settle down young, get married, and hit a midlife crisis thinking, “Why isn’t my partner as attractive to me anymore?” That can lead to infidelity, trying to open the relationship, or chasing something new, only to destroy a stable home and lose your family in the process.

Both men and women are capable of falling into incredibly toxic, self-destructive patterns that leave them bitter and unfulfilled. No gender is exempt or unique here.

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Most men do not look like Brad Pitt either, haha.

Yes, but the main point is that most men, on average, would find the first woman more attractive. The same goes for women - both tend to prefer the less extreme, more balanced expressions of masculinity and femininity. I guess it also comes down to how we define these terms.

Exactly my point.

Men often have this notion that they have to max out their level of Masculinity to be attractive to women and become some stoic machine of a guy.

But women are attracted to more subtle expressions of Masculinity than they are overt ones.

The same is true for men... but even though men tend to be most attracted to softer and more subtle Feminine expressions, men can also enjoy hyper-Feminine expressions like the lady with the big boobs and lips.

Men are more responsive to hyper-normal visual stimuli than women are, so this is probably why.

So, while women might be put off by the image of the bodybuilder above as hyper-Masculinity is unattractive.... most men might be able to find some level of attractiveness in hyper-Feminine expressions like huge lips, fake breasts, BBLs, etc. 

Now, of course Sydney Sweeney and Brad Pitt are ideals.... they are Hollywood's beautiful people.

But everyday men who are attractive tend to have this mixture of hard and soft qualities... and that's what makes them attractive as you can see their personality more coming through in their gestures and expressions.

[AION]

@Xonas Pitfall that is only for men who build themselves up since those perks of status, money, lifestyle and so on is not a given  

[Schizophonia]

@AION How is your drone business doing?

 

[AION]

Hyper masculine guys are usually not even good at sports. Only at lifting weights. I’m doing martial arts and those hyper masculine guys are the easiest to beat. 

Edited June 9 by AION

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

41 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

That’s why it’s so important not to emotionally shut down or see emotional growth as something “men just don’t do.”

@Xonas Pitfall a huge part of emotional well being is how other people react to you, or don't react to you tho. There is no growth in being vulnerable and then being destroyed, or riddiculed, or not taken seriously, or ignored etc. Which is why this is not a "skill", you know. It all depends on how other people react to you (or don't), at the end of the day. That's the truth

Edited June 9 by NewKidOnTheBlock

[Xonas Pitfall]

Just now, AION said:

@Xonas Pitfall that is only for men who build themselves up since those perks of status, money, lifestyle and so on is not a given  

Exactly - either way, both end up deeply unfulfilled. Just like the woman in your example, who settles and ends up bitter. No one’s really winning here, so I'm not sure what your original point was. My bad if I misunderstood something.

Sure, women might have an easier time getting sex, but for most women, casual sex isn’t the goal; emotional connection and commitment are.

At the end of the day, both sides are ultimately seeking the same thing: a meaningful, lasting connection. All the other games, excuses, and strategies just take people further away from that.

[aurum]

22 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Yes, but the main point is that most men, on average, would find the first woman more attractive.

I'd say that's actually debatable.

The top woman is more classically beautiful. She looks elegant, very feminine and like a woman you might want to marry.

The bottom woman comes off a bit trashy because of the tattoos and maybe her lips. Guys might be turned off for that reason. But I think it'd still be a close race on OnlyFans who would get more followers.

[Xonas Pitfall]

2 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@Xonas Pitfall a huge part of emotional well being is how other people react to you, or don't react to you tho. There is no growth in being vulnerable and then being destroyed, or riddiculed, or not taken seriously, or ignored etc. Which is why this is not a "skill", you know. It all depends on how other people react to you (or don't), at the end of the day. That's the truth

It absolutely is a skill - it's about perseverance.

If you ever want to become a trader or business investor, emotional control is a crucial component. You don’t say, “Well, my stocks didn’t perform well, I didn’t get a comfortable response, things didn't go as planned,” and then give up on investing forever. These fields, which are often male-dominated, demand resilience.

The same goes for starting a business – you have to pitch your product or service to thousands of people, face constant rejection, and keep going until you succeed. Ironically, this kind of grit, discipline, and emotional regulation is often considered one of the most stereotypically “masculine” traits.

Plus, women face the same emotional challenges – arguably even more so, given that they’re often in a more vulnerable position physically. Many women are manipulated, lied to, used for sex, or deceived about a man’s true intentions. Being vulnerable always comes with risk, and yes, it can hurt. But that’s also what makes genuine relationships meaningful. You can’t build something real without some level of emotional exposure – it’s the very thing that makes a connection deep and special.

Of course, it's not that I lack empathy for this problem - I deal with it myself. But that’s exactly why it frustrates me to see red pill narratives like “hide your emotions,” “no one cares how you feel,” or “emotions are for women, who are all irrational” continue to spread. It just buries it deeper and keeps it unaddressed.

You simply can't build a healthy relationship without vulnerability. Period. The more you suppress or demonize it, the more difficulty you'll face in actually connecting and being fulfilled.