Is this the evolution of polyamory? Aubrey Marcus podcast)

[Oppositionless]

@Leo Gura  thank you.

Actually just had a really insightful conversation today. There's this regular at my favorite spot who inherited millions from his parents after their death. He's in his mid-forties, doesn't need to work, takes a cruise every other month. When he comes back from the cruise we can all tell whether or not he got laid by his attitude. If he got laid he's manic, if he didn't get laid he's super depressed. 
 

it's clear that this guy has suffered profoundly because he just views women in an entirely objective way. Nevermind God, this guy hasn't even had meaningful relationships. It's just endless dopamine. And he's rather like Aubrey with his spiritual posturing.

Edited June 28 by Oppositionless

[Natasha Tori Maru]

To compoud the spiritual vs material persuit dichotomy further; there are tangible, real rewards dangling like carrots in front of you with material pursuit/pleasure. This can falsely give you the impression there is value in the endeavour. And there definitely is, maybe in the experience, but the meaning isn't there.

Pursuing spiritual matters and God - you are diving into the unknown. There is no clear path. No clear outcome. Makes it harder for the average Joe to find any value in it at all. But there is meaning there, which makes the discipline and work the pleasure. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Rolling back to Aubrey - he is facing widespread ostrasization from his community for the first time. That feeling of rejection is going to trigger all sorts of ego/survival fears. 

Humanity evolved through power in numbers, community. So being ejected from a community looking back evolutionarily would have meant death.

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I understand. Money, sex, fame, luxury is very alluring. It's how the Devil ensnares you, gets you to compromise on your higher values like truth, justice, morality, consciousness.

The answer is three-fold:

1) Authentic spirituality is just hard. There's a good reason why its so rare and revered. Placing truth above every other value requires super-human courage and discipline. This cannot be made easy. You are choosing the hard life rather than the fun life.

2) With Awakening/God-Realization, your connection to God can become so profound that it gives you more joy than any materialist rewards like sex, money, and luxury vacations. So it's about building a really deep, serious connection/consciousness of God that makes all the Devil's enticements pale in comparison. But this level of connection is really hard to reach, requiring lots of sacrifice and work.

3) You can burn through some of your desires by pursuing them. Go have some sex, go make some money, go take some luxury vacations just to realize that you will still be left unsatisfied. The allure of the Devil's rewards start to lose its appeal once you've had enough of them. Eventually you realize the Devil's rewards are fool's gold and you start to crave real gold, which only God can give. Eventually you start wanting God more than you want luxury vacations to Egypt or threesome sex.

How much threesome sex do you need to have before you realize that God is better?

Well... if you're Aubrey, probably never. So here we are

The more money, fame, and sex you have, the harder it will be to throw it all away for God.

This is so true. Absolute devotion to Truth is almost nonexistent. Something like Buddha had when he sat under the Bodhi Tree -- he either wake up or he dies.

How many people do you know that you can say " He is a seeker, he reached a point where, either he awakes or he dies ---- no in-between"?

Devotion is one of the most beautiful qualities -- it can make any person cry, when you see, when you experience it, when you understand it. But it is so so rare. 

Edited June 28 by Eskilon

[Magnanimous]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

3) You can burn through some of your desires by pursuing them. Go have some sex, go make some money, go take some luxury vacations just to realize that you will still be left unsatisfied. The allure of the Devil's rewards start to lose its appeal once you've had enough of them. Eventually you realize the Devil's rewards are fool's gold and you start to crave real gold, which only God can give. Eventually you start wanting God more than you want luxury vacations to Egypt or threesome sex.

@Leo Gura 17yo, currently applying the Power of Now, and Eckhart Tolle says that although the pleasure you get from all worldly things is temporary, we can still enjoy them. Does that still apply here even though this work isn't just integrating Being, but God?

I'd like to ask because I plan to have a lot of the "fools gold" in my 20s, then get into psychedelic spirituality in my 30s when I've burned karma/realized enough it won't make me happy. But I'm sure I'd still like to enjoy them from time to time; Eckhart says we should still enjoy worldly things from time to time, but we should just know it won't make us happy.

[Leo Gura]

@Magnanimous Of course you can and should enjoy whatever fruits of your labor.

The problem is that people get lost, trapped in survival/materialism. They start to compromise higher values like truth to acquire material things that won't make them happy anyway, and then they start bullshitting themselves and others about it. Corruption slowly sets in.

Survival is important, but not to excess. It's the difference between eating for energy vs gluttony.

Aubrey is rationalizing sexual gluttony. That's the bottom line here.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I understand. Money, sex, fame, luxury is very alluring. It's how the Devil ensnares you, gets you to compromise on your higher values like truth, justice, morality, consciousness.

The answer is three-fold:

1) Authentic spirituality is just hard. There's a good reason why its so rare and revered. Placing truth above every other value requires super-human courage and discipline. This cannot be made easy. You are choosing the hard life rather than the fun life.

2) With Awakening/God-Realization, your connection to God can become so profound that it gives you more joy than any materialist rewards like sex, money, and luxury vacations. So it's about building a really deep, serious connection/consciousness of God that makes all the Devil's enticements pale in comparison. But this level of connection is really hard to reach, requiring lots of sacrifice and work.

3) You can burn through some of your desires by pursuing them. Go have some sex, go make some money, go take some luxury vacations just to realize that you will still be left unsatisfied. The allure of the Devil's rewards start to lose its appeal once you've had enough of them. Eventually you realize the Devil's rewards are fool's gold and you start to crave real gold, which only God can give. Eventually you start wanting God more than you want luxury vacations to Egypt or threesome sex.

How much threesome sex do you need to have before you realize that God is better?

Well... if you're Aubrey, probably never. So here we are

The more money, fame, and sex you have, the harder it will be to throw it all away for God.

I feel like number 3 is most powerful here. Seeking God is gonna give you a hard limit because well we come from God so most of the point of life is to experience duality and competition and the "basic desires." 

[gengar]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I understand. Money, sex, fame, luxury is very alluring. It's how the Devil ensnares you, gets you to compromise on your higher values like truth, justice, morality, consciousness.

The answer is three-fold:

1) Authentic spirituality is just hard. There's a good reason why its so rare and revered. Placing truth above every other value requires super-human courage and discipline. This cannot be made easy. You are choosing the hard life rather than the fun life.

2) With Awakening/God-Realization, your connection to God can become so profound that it gives you more joy than any materialist rewards like sex, money, and luxury vacations. So it's about building a really deep, serious connection/consciousness of God that makes all the Devil's enticements pale in comparison. But this level of connection is really hard to reach, requiring lots of sacrifice and work.

3) You can burn through some of your desires by pursuing them. Go have some sex, go make some money, go take some luxury vacations just to realize that you will still be left unsatisfied. The allure of the Devil's rewards start to lose its appeal once you've had enough of them. Eventually you realize the Devil's rewards are fool's gold and you start to crave real gold, which only God can give. Eventually you start wanting God more than you want luxury vacations to Egypt or threesome sex.

How much threesome sex do you need to have before you realize that God is better?

Well... if you're Aubrey, probably never. So here we are

The more money, fame, and sex you have, the harder it will be to throw it all away for God.

Why are you framing it like anyone can just choose to have money sex and fame?

I am basically situated in life that all of the devils fools gold is not available to me anymore

I basically can't talk anymore and have constant inflammation of the face, tongue and jaw all day and it'll never go away

All of survivals goodies are locked away from me

Tbh I'm ready to die, I lost my job a year ago bc of my conditions and am just scraping by off benefits

Creating a career in my passions seems impossible since you need to be able to communicate with others properly

plus why would i even have the motivation to pursue it, even if I had 10 million dollars and success with life purpose, I couldn't even talk to a girl or kiss her, it's literally almost physically impossible and hurts, talking and moving my tongue hurts

Leo, how do I give my life to God? Life has basically forced me to give up wordly desires, even though I still desire them deeply, like human love

I care about truth deeply, but on the other hand, truth doesn't feel that urgent, or to say it better, wanting to know the truth makes me wanna end my self even more, since i'll get the end of suffering + truth? I feel so limited as a human to reach truth, I feel like I pollute anything anyway, and since Consciousness is immortal, truth will be reached anyway once I'm freed of the human form

Be honest, is there even a real, tangible reason to not end myself or is it all morality that I imagined myself? Since others won't even miss me, what's the point? Is there a real point in going through the suffering? is it just consciousness going through the hardcore motions? do you get karma points for not ending yourself and holding on or is that all imagined? There seems no empirical proof for any of this, yet it then also feels pointless that people would go through pointless pain, and it doesn't make sense that infinite intelligence would do something in a pointless fashion.

You say that truth is reached anyway upon death. So then I don't even get what the point is of being human and living for truth if you're only limited by your human form to see truth properly.

How do I give my life to God? I can probably live of benefits my entire life but I hate my human self since i'm pointless and have so much desire that I can't fulfill, like I'm in a wheelchair or in jail

Just do hardcore meditation all day everyday to try and permanently lose the ego self and awaken and thats it? it feels like hell even thinking about it, but maybe that's the point.

 

Edited June 29 by gengar

[Leo Gura]

@gengar You have a unique medical situation so my generic advice may not suit you.

38 minutes ago, gengar said:

Just do hardcore meditation all day everyday to try and permanently lose the ego self and awaken and thats it?

Pretty much.

Look, if you don't find it appealing, don't do it. Do whatever appeals to you. God is not for everyone. Most people don't want it. Remember that these are niche teachings that most of the world does not care about.  You have to find what you care about in life. Just because I care about certain things doesn't mean you should.

Sounds like what you need it not hardcore spirituality but some basic self-help, success, and good feelings. It's hard to get a struggling person to do advanced spirituality/philosophy because you have more pressing emotional issues to resolve. I suggest you look for solutions to those issues before you concern yourself with God.

Keep in mind the context of this thread. A wealthy guy trapped in decadence, not a guy like you who is struggling to get by.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[gengar]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@gengar You have a unique medical situation so my generic advice may not suit you.

Pretty much.

Look, if you don't find it appealing, don't do it. Do whatever appeals to you. God is not for everyone. Most people don't want it. Remember that these are niche teachings that most of the world does not care about.  You have to find what you care about in life. Just because I care about certain things doesn't mean you should.

Sounds like what you need it not hardcore spirituality but some basic self-help, success, and good feelings. It's hard to get a struggling person to do advanced spirituality/philosophy because you have more pressing emotional issues to resolve. I suggest you look for solutions to those issues before you concern yourself with God.

Keep in mind the context of this thread. A wealthy guy trapped in decadence, not a guy like you who is struggling to get by.

You patronizing me like I don't care about God when I do and have had 2 awakenings/spiritual experiences that rocked my world, one of solipsism and one of God. I've cared about truth all my life, and especially since age 16 when I started to philosophically deconstruct my materalist reductionist worldview thanks to your early videos. I've already "concerned myself with God" my entire life.

I know God and truth is for me, I care about it deeply. You're not getting what I'm saying. There is no "basic self help" and success and good feelings for me anymore. I'm basically about to end it because I've went through all the options.

I'm asking what is the point, if you're really hardcore about truth, and if the human form is only a limitation to your ability to see truth, why not end the human form at all? I'm already close to it due to wanting to end suffering, and if in truth seeking there is only benefit in shedding the human form, what's the issue?

I'm asking you also, do you think there are any karma points to sticking through it all, or is that all fantasy? Why would infinite intelligence go through so much pain if there is no reason to cut it short to get to truth?

My entire point is that there are no solutions anymore to my worldly problems, so can I see that as an opportunity to go towards the real gold? I'm not a little boy anymore, I went through this shit for the last 4 years and there are no solutions anymore. I'm fucking ready for a monk life, but what is the point? why meditate with discipline when all human form clouds truth even when you meditate, and I don't want to live human life in this fashion anymore anyway?

[Deziree]

10 minutes ago, gengar said:

You patronizing me like I don't care about God when I do and have had 2 awakenings/spiritual experiences that rocked my world, one of solipsism and one of God. I've cared about truth all my life, and especially since age 16 when I started to philosophically deconstruct my materalist reductionist worldview thanks to your early videos. I've already "concerned myself with God" my entire life.

I know God and truth is for me, I care about it deeply. You're not getting what I'm saying. There is no "basic self help" and success and good feelings for me anymore. I'm basically about to end it because I've went through all the options.

I'm asking what is the point, if you're really hardcore about truth, and if the human form is only a limitation to your ability to see truth, why not end the human form at all? I'm already close to it due to wanting to end suffering, and if in truth seeking there is only benefit in shedding the human form, what's the issue?

I'm asking you also, do you think there are any karma points to sticking through it all, or is that all fantasy? Why would infinite intelligence go through so much pain if there is no reason to cut it short to get to truth?

My entire point is that there are no solutions anymore to my worldly problems, so can I see that as an opportunity to go towards the real gold? I'm not a little boy anymore, I went through this shit for the last 4 years and there are no solutions anymore. I'm fucking ready for a monk life, but what is the point? why meditate with discipline when all human form clouds truth even when you meditate, and I don't want to live human life in this fashion anymore anyway?

It seems like you want to escape this human form but is this what you genuinely want or just a coping front? 

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura what do you think about people who don't want god but just some good mental health. Don't you think a strong connection to god could fix their mental state?

If god is so awesome, should not god be for everyone?

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, gengar said:

I'm asking what is the point, if you're really hardcore about truth, and if the human form is only a limitation to your ability to see truth, why not end the human form at all? I'm already close to it due to wanting to end suffering, and if in truth seeking there is only benefit in shedding the human form, what's the issue?

I'm asking you also, do you think there are any karma points to sticking through it all, or is that all fantasy? Why would infinite intelligence go through so much pain if there is no reason to cut it short to get to truth?

I don't think there are karma points. The universe doesn't keep score of what you do.

However, you might regret harming yourself. So that's not to be taken lightly.

Quote

I'm fucking ready for a monk life, but what is the point? why meditate with discipline when all human form clouds truth even when you meditate

The point is that higher consciousness can reduce suffering and increase satisfaction with life. Although it can take a lot of work to reach that point.

If you have reached a suicidal point, I would definitely suggest trying a hardcore spiritual practice first because maybe you will have some breakthrough that changes how you experience life. Similar to Eckhart Tolle's biography. He was suicidal and turned around to have a good life.

Unfortunately chronic health problems can be very serious and seriously affect quality of life. I have struggled with that and it can feel like you're trapped.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura what do you think about people who don't want god but just some good mental health. Don't you think a strong connection to god could fix their mental state?

If god is so awesome, should not god be for everyone?

Yes, but such people are usually too weak to do the work necessary to reach God deeply.

The problem is that spiritual work is some of the emotionally hardest work there is. Many need it but few are willing to stick through it. Spiritual work requires exceptionally strong character to reap its fruits.

It's like running a business. Poor people need money real badly but they are not in a good position to launch a thriving business. But of course running a business is the ultimate solution to poverty.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Spiritual work requires exceptionally strong character to reap its fruits.

It can also be the process that produces this strong character.

Extreme levels of transformation will require an extreme dislodgement of ego and all belief. The process, for myself, has required constant destruction and then restitching myself back together again. Resilience was discovered there.

But it is sink or swim, as they say.

[Leo Gura]

@Natasha Tori Maru I would guess you had a pretty strong character to begin with. And the process makes it even stronger.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I would guess you had a pretty strong character to begin with. And the process makes it even stronger.

Yes I think you are correct with that assessment. 

Although, I never knew this. It was revealed to me through the spiritual process. 

Which is the reason I continue to persue it, as the process reveals hidden parts of us we aren't aware of. This is why I think there is hope for those such as @gengar 

His challenges are almost insurmountable.

But I believe in you all 😊

Much love ❤️❤️❤️

[Miguel1]

I have only recently in the past couple of years really realized a few natural things about me that I thought were developed from scratch with hard work:

1. Natural ambition

2. Natural visionary

3. Natural strenght of character (I am ENFJ 8w3, which gives a ton of strenght, ambition & seriousness to the otherwise very warm and easy-going ENFJ)

4. Natural social, people, & communication skills, & charisma and emotional intelligence.

Looks also mostly due to my genes, rather than ”looksmaxing” & ”everyone can be as good looking if they just want to”

5. Natural care for Truth & Spirituality

6. Naturally good with sports, body movements, and rythms like dancing & football (soccer)

And more..

7. Oh, and since there was a thread about this the other day, I am also naturally very high in energy, and healthy.

These are things that were natural to me all along, and hence it was natural for me to care about all of them + put a ton of work into cultivating them even further.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

3. Natural strenght of character (I am ENFJ 8w3, which gives a ton of strenght, ambition & seriousness to the otherwise very warm and easy-going ENFJ)

Probably the most important keyword in this section that I forgot to add is: natural Leadership.

I have always found it easy to lead. I have always usually been the one leading my social circles & work environments (even when I wasn't in a manager position lol).

I was also always made the captain in my soccer teams growing up.

And to this day, I am usually the one leading the football teams & games (hobby, for fun) where we play together with my friends.

I remember in my early 20s, I was always buzzled as to why it is so hard for other football friends to take the charge, and why do I always have to step in to take the charge? To add to the fuel, Finnish men and people in generally are shy and withdrawn people.

I am one of those leadership types that don’t mind stepping down to let someone else lead, and oftentimes even prefer to just relax back and enjoy the ride. But I just often find myself in situations where I have to step in, or everything goes to chaos.

I wonder how much I would like to lead and how much I would like to just relax and enjoy the ride, if the world had way more leadership types?

Quote

7. Oh, and since there was a thread about this the other day, I am also naturally very high in energy, and healthy.

To this I have to add natural high libido as hell. To the point where I am seriously considering not being in a monogamous relationship again until I get older and my libido goes down or unless I find a great woman with exceptionally high libido (yay, something about the original conversation of the thread ).

- - -

Anyways, sorry for moving the conversation away from the original conversation of the thread.

Sharing all these was just to confirm the above conversation about naturalness of things to begin with, like strenght of character + share more about me to ya’ll + for me to articulate things for myself.

Please feel free to move the conversation back to its originality.

Edited June 29 by Miguel1

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Looks also mostly due to my genes, rather than ”looksmaxing” & ”everyone can be as good looking if they just want to”

Yes piccolo we see the fit