Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Your intuition is skewed by insanely high states which just shattered your ability to reason in a sane way. I'm sorry.

No. My reasoning is rock solid.

A finite thing cannot exist.

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No. My reasoning is rock solid.

A finite thing cannot exist.

I know that logic trick, it's neat I must admit, but this is exactly how "infinite" things occur when you try to use logic to derive ontology. Logic is a great abstract tool of the brain, but it's only abstract.

A good example is Zeno's race of halves:

We all know that the race must be finite, but if you pose it as halving the distance you set yourself up for imagining an infinite race.

Edited June 11 by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

@samijiben

The mainstream will do as mainstream does, it will take a simple idea like take 5meo to get truth and will propel it in a simplistic and easily marketable way. 

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

I know that logic trick, it's neat I must admit, but this is exactly how "infinite" things occur when you try to use logic to derive ontology. Logic is a great abstract tool of the brain, but it's only abstract.

A good example is zeno race of halves:

We all know that the race must be finite, but if you pose it as halving the distance you set yourself up for imagining an infinite race.

God is not a logic trick, it is a direct experience.

Dozens of people here have experienced it. You are like a deaf man complaining that we are all crazy for dancing to music.

[RendHeaven]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are like a deaf man complaining that we are all crazy for dancing to music.

Good one

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Leo Gura 

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God is not a logic trick, it is a direct experience.

Dozens of people here have experienced it. You are like a deaf man complaining that we are all crazy for dancing to music.

I hope you don't think of me as just a critic for criticism's sake. I really do care about Truth very much. 

It's true that we imagine our birth and death, and so within experience we seem immortal, but our body that is facilitating that experience was born, and will die for sure. These two truths can co exist, it just takes humility and meta vision to see.

I don't deny that mystical experiences are cool and should be studied to some degree, but we should always take even direct experience with a just a pinch of salt.

So dance away, but just don't throw reason completely out the window 💫

Edited June 11 by Anton Rogachevski

[Leo Gura]

@Anton Rogachevski Reason is not your side, it is on mine.

Your position is irrational.

[samijiben]

@Anton Rogachevski

I was high and had misread what you wrote. 

I thought you meant the opposite, that Leo should be more public and open about his philosophy, to which I said it wouldn't matter

Leo's ideas ARE EXTREMELY THREATENING AND DANGEROUS 

Anyways, that's why it's not mainstream

Infinity and 5meo and all this....

It's not all butterflies & roses lol

[Anton Rogachevski]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your position is irrational

In what way?

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

In what way?

You have no rational explanation for how finite things can come into existence.

Edited June 11 by Leo Gura

[Anton Rogachevski]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have not rational explanation for how finite things can come into existence.

I hope you can see that both of these Ontological claims are very bold. And both carry almost the same burden of proof. Although to claim infinity is more bold i think, but can't say it's more than an intuition. A scientist might give a better explanation of why infinity would be very hard to have.

To even prove there are "things" in existence or to even define "existence" in the first place are a very serious philosophical questions.

The limit of the speed of light is showing a finite aspect of the physical dimension. 

Edited June 11 by Anton Rogachevski

[Nemra]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Anyone watched The Surfer? Curious on folks' opinions.

Watched it.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's an interesting commentary on toxic masculinity but also the need for toughening up soft men.

I also got that idea from the movie when I focused on the locals.

But Cage wasn't that soft.

He was being gaslighted hard.

He wanted to get what he wanted properly, like an adult, without resorting to violence.

Edited June 11 by Nemra

[zurew]

18 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

I hope you can see that both of these Ontological claims are very bold. And both carry almost the same burden of proof.

You are wasting your time, you wont see any epistemic humility here.

[Nemra]

4 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

A good example is Zeno's race of halves:

We all know that the race must be finite, but if you pose it as halving the distance you set yourself up for imagining an infinite race.

For you to be able to go from 0 to 1, there need to be infinite steps between them.

When you go from A to B, you are taking infinite steps by one step at a time.

So, the race is actually infinite, but when we only take countable steps into account, then it seems finite.

Edited June 11 by Nemra

[Davino]

The problem is that science assumes reality to be finite, given that assumption the explanatory offload, despite unsatisfactory, should eventually make all pieces come together and hold each other.

However, given that Reality is infinite, this process is futile to grasp the whole, as the finite keeps discovering more paths within Infinite Universal Mind. There will always be new pieces and the centre will give the illusion of relative stability but the edge is always groundless and it goes on forever.

[Rafael Thundercat]

5 hours ago, samijiben said:

@Anton Rogachevski if Leo was more mainstream, it would not change a thing. 

It does not matter if you can get this to more people. If you can even manage to get them to sit through an episode to its end & fathom what was being pointed to.............

This work is deeply personal. Most will unfortunately never come across Leo's work. But I am contending that it must be that way. If the Mainstream got hold of "this," it would be corrupt.

@Leo Gura  this is somehow true from my experience. Yesterday i gave a try to share your video about Actuality with a good friend. She already did psycadelics for years and Breathwork and many other practices. She just came back from a Vipassana Goenka style and so I felt she maybe would understand the video and the importance of Direct Experience . But when she heard the first part of the video when you called Earth a concept and imagination she said she dont want to listen anymore. 

Some people seems to be born for this work. No amout of explanation can breakthougth a stubborn mind that wish to be attached with concepts.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

No amout of explanation can breakthougth a stubborn mind that wish to be attached with concepts.

Of course. That's what I teach.

There is no cure to closedmindedness and lack of care for truth.

As I keep saying. Nobody cares about truth, so they will never reach it.

Edited June 11 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

I hope you can see that both of these Ontological claims are very bold. And both carry almost the same burden of proof. Although to claim infinity is more bold i think, but can't say it's more than an intuition. A scientist might give a better explanation of why infinity would be very hard to have.

To even prove there are "things" in existence or to even define "existence" in the first place are a very serious philosophical questions.

The limit of the speed of light is showing a finite aspect of the physical dimension. 

Look dude. I figured all this out. I solved all those issues.

You would be wise to actually take what I say seriously rather than thinking you're too cool for school.

I can guide you to God. But you refuse.

[Space]

40 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Leo Gura  this is somehow true from my experience. Yesterday i gave a try to share your video about Actuality with a good friend. She already did psycadelics for years and Breathwork and many other practices. She just came back from a Vipassana Goenka style and so I felt she maybe would understand the video and the importance of Direct Experience . But when she heard the first part of the video when you called Earth a concept and imagination she said she dont want to listen anymore. 

Some people seems to be born for this work. No amout of explanation can breakthougth a stubborn mind that wish to be attached with concepts.

I feel like people need to be slowly coaxed into this type of understanding. The vast majority of people will not understand or want to accept the Actuality video. Some because of close-mindedness, but many, I think, from a lack of broader understanding. The materialist paradigm runs so deep in people's minds, one video isn't going to break it. It's not about stubbornness, its that the truth is so far away from most people's model of reality that it seems ridiculous to even talk about it. It's just ignorance. If your friend was forced to watch Leo's entire back catalogue of videos, she would have a much more nuanced, deeper understanding of the Actuality video. You ain't gonna convince someone the room they're standing in doesn't exist when they close their eyes, with just one video.

[kbone]

2 hours ago, Space said:

1- I feel like people need to be slowly coaxed into this type of understanding. The vast majority of people will not understand or want to accept the Actuality video. Some because of close-mindedness, but many, I think, from a lack of broader understanding.

2- The materialist paradigm runs so deep in people's minds, one video isn't going to break it. It's not about stubbornness, its that the truth is so far away from most people's model of reality that it seems ridiculous to even talk about it. It's just ignorance.

3- If your friend was forced to watch Leo's entire back catalogue of videos, she would have a much more nuanced, deeper understanding of the Actuality video. You ain't gonna convince someone the room they're standing in doesn't exist when they close their eyes, with just one video.

That’s a thoughtful post. Here’s a take on the points you’ve presented.

1- With respect to existential questions and the search for their answers, there are two interesting schools of life: the School of Necessity and the School of Futility. People will not seek to find an answer without the necessitated question at hand, which emerges within the mind and grabs the attention. Due to any number of biases, mostly cognitive and/or socio-cultural, one’s individuated consciousness is attenuated to projected likely ‘answers’, desired outcomes, or probabilities. 

2- Inconsideration of the above, yes, most peeps’ world views are formed by the ‘outward’ environment, the appearing world. The cognitive and the socio-cultural biases inform one another until a certain stimulus necessitates the search for a ‘new answer’ and/or revision of a previous one. Therefore, if one has grown up in a culture (family, media, social circles, school. etc) that is dominated by say, the scientific-materialist paradigm, many or most of the so called acceptable ‘answers’ are going to appeal to that world view. All good….. Until it’s not. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

3- In culturo-linguistic fields, this is called immersion. And yes, the more one is immersed in a new paradigm, the more one is likely to get a sense for, adapt to, and accept the validity of said paradigm. That said, this all with respect to cognition, language, and social settings. This message board is an example of one such paradigm. 

 

Note: Some of what Leo is on and on about is learnable, so he considers himself a teacher of it. The material is all researchable on the web and subjectively valid and/or experienced, subject to prioritization, re-organizable, revisable, etc. As with all knowledge, it is impermanent, subject to entropy, and changes.

When it comes to Truth, which he claims to have apprehended, one must understand that it is NOT teachable, as it is not learnable or cognizable. It is not a thing. It cannot be researched, revised, or restructured. IT must be Realized. 

• Many will exhaust their mind’s faculties in the effort of seeking to learn more about it, and die, perhaps with some degree of knowledge of the metaphysical, high end physics or ‘spirituality’, and the like, but will never apprehend IT. With any luck, they will fall to their knees, and in that moment of surrender, get a glimpse of, or perhaps a full on apprehension of Truth will emerge, but no one knows when/if. This often takes the form of inquiry into the nature of reality and/or the nature of the self.
• Many others will go the other route of seeking to subdue or subvert the mind via meditation and other practices, or take drugs (some of them purddy wild, to be sure), and woo woo experiences abound. All of this is done in efforts to create different mind states in which one might get glimpses or experience transcendental states, which come and go. As with any practice or effort, there's always the potential for failure, and with Truth, it is actually quite high, because the mind is that quick and sneaky. After the oceanic feeling, mind-blowing experience, woo woo, or otherworldly event has subsided, the mind kicks in with all sorts of ‘new’ theories and/or expressions meant to clarify what was seen, experienced, or understood.
• Typically what happens is that the essence of any potential depth of ‘experience’ gets, shall we say, corrupted by the momentum of the dominant paradigm of one’s mind/thinking. As with all trial and error phases in life, many give up and/or find their own comfy spot. That's fine; it's just hasn't found what it was looking for. One rarely notices or fully realizes the Absence giving rise to the sense of presence, or the Nothingness giving rise to Everything, the Absolute that gives rise to the relative, etc. Lots of ways to express the journey and/or the clarity. As one immerses the attention in Truth, it continues to inform the mind of its limited capacity for which it is mostly a tool to be used in the world.

 

But that’s the catch; states (which come and go) are always about mind, which changes. What comes and goes is NOT abiding non-dual Awareness of/as Truth: Peace, Freedom, Love, Beauty, the Good....right HERE, right NOW.

And IT's ALL GOOD.