Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Zionism IS the problem itself.

In the same way Nazism was the problem in Germany.

These isms create war.

It doesn't matter whether you call yourself such or not. What matters if whether you make excuses for, defend, and promote the actions of that ideology. This ideology is a material force in the world. This ideology fuels everything happening in Israel. It is the elephant in the room. Nothing can be solved without addressing the elephant.

The right-wing sector of the Palestinians, on the second side of the equation, also has an ideology with independent reasons to exist (not dependent on the actions and policies of the second side), except that these pre-existing ideologies do fuel and worsen each other.

[Breakingthewall]

The war Hamas has launched will result in the complete delegitimization of Zionism worldwide. This is a very significant outcome. Although the current American president is a unconditional supporter of Israel, public opinion rules, and a president who isn't will be elected. Hamas is running a long-distance race. Israel has killed 50,000, which is nothing to them. For every death, there are 10 new fanatics, or 100, and hatred of Israel throughout the Muslim world is reaching a critical point. Hamas has won this battle without a doubt, and I would say it has initiated Israel's downfall.

The stupid Zionists who take their children to cheer the bombing of civilians don't know what they're doing. The Jews, the most moral and victimized people in the world, have been portrayed as trash, and the whole world has seen it. Bad business.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Breakingthewall

[Twentyfirst]

5 hours ago, Raze said:

Please quit posting this guy, it isn’t persuading anyone and I doubt anyone even watches these links. 

I'm not trying to persuade anyone. She was calling me hateful and there is no way to respond to that other than videos that address exactly that accusation 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

The right-wing sector of the Palestinians, on the second side of the equation, also has an ideology with independent reasons to exist (not dependent on the actions and policies of the second side), except that these pre-existing ideologies do fuel and worsen each other.

What are the left wing and right wing of Palestine?

[Raze]

What I think will happen is that since the extreme right population has a higher birthrate then the secular population israel will become more and more extreme as they take over making it lose even more international support. Combined with losing international support deteriorating its economy and continued attacks from Palestinians revolting from the occupation this will cause a brain drain of seculars who comprise the wealthy more technically savvy clash which will create a spiral of more violence as they provide the backbone to the economy and the militaries competence.

As it loses international support it will be forced to rely on its nuclear weapons as a deterrent threat when it can’t rely on a potential US intervention. This will cause surrounding middle eastern states to create their own nukes and their enemies to create nukes creating proliferation of nukes in the Middle East. Unlike Africa and Latin America, requests to turn the Middle East into a nuclear weapon free zone were blocked by the US to avoid having to inspect Israel for nuclear weapons.

But the problem is due to other economic issues and climate change pressures more middle eastern dictatorships will have Islamist revolutions and be taken over by a government much more hostile to Israel, possibly with a belief in Armageddon like ISIS.

At the same time the right in Israel has a growing population that believes in messianic prophecy’s about israel taking its ancient land and having a climactic battle to bring back the messiah.

So it will eventually escalate into full scale conflict leading to them using the Samson option. 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Zionism IS the problem itself.

In the same way Nazism was the problem in Germany.

These isms create war.

It doesn't matter whether you call yourself such or not. What matters if whether you make excuses for, defend, and promote the actions of that ideology. This ideology is a material force in the world. This ideology fuels everything happening in Israel. It is the elephant in the room. Nothing can be solved without addressing the elephant.

Zionism makes sense when you say that Jews need a homeland and an army after the holocaust. Where it went wrong was picking a homeland that already had people on it

[zazen]

@Lila9 @Nivsch The problem isn’t that one side has more extremists than the other, it’s that’s one sides extremists (Israel) are enforcing a system of control and domination, in the form of occupation - while the other sides extremists (Hamas) emerge in reaction to that system, as a symptom.

Israeli extremism exists within a domain of systemic domination, Palestinian extremism exists within  a domain of symptomatic desperation. One side has the power asymmetry to end the cycle causing both extremisms, more than the other.

What underpins that system of occupational domination is a dark interpretation and implementation of the ideology of Zionism. Returning to a historically rooted home to coexist with natives is fine, but dispossessing them because of an ethno-centric fever dream isn’t.

A lot of the arguments stem around survival and national security. That’s something I’ve talked about regarding understanding Russias actions in reaction to Western containment that could threaten their national security at the border of Ukraine. The difference with Israel is that a besieged conclave of people with no tanks, navy, air or nuclear capability - aren’t a existential threat to a nuclear armed high tech power like Israel, backed by the collective West including a superpower like the US. It’s not the same level of national security concern the way it is for Russia.

Not only are Israels actions as an occupier completely unjustified, its reactions to those it occupies, reacting to that occupation, are also completely unjustified - because those resisting pose no existential threat. Israel was simply asleep at the wheel which caused a breach of the border on a one off occasion. Some say it was allowed to happen but that’s beside the point.

Even this notion of Israel being in a hostile neighbourhood surrounded by wolves is false. Egypt and Jordan have peace treaties, Saudi Arabia has been in silent alignment via the US and normalizing more recently (paused for now due to Israel’s psychotic behaviour), Syria poses no threat and has its own issues.

Hezbollah exists mainly as a defensive militia protecting Shias in South Lebanon, in reaction to Israels invasion in the past. The reason Israel breach Lebanese and Syrian air space / sovereignty is because of Iranian supply lines to Hezbollah, who came to exist because of Palestinian resistance in the first place.

Most, if not all Israels regional conflicts can be traced back to the refusal to resolve the ongoing Palestinian issue. Israels surrounded by countries reacting to its own system of control over a dispossessed people - it’s not innate hostility towards Jews, but circumstantial towards a state behaving dominantly in the region.

Edited March 30, 2025 by zazen

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Lila9 @Nivsch The problem isn’t that one side has more extremists than the other, it’s that’s one sides extremists (Israel) are enforcing a system of control and domination, in the form of occupation - while the other sides extremists (Hamas) emerge in reaction to that system, as a symptom.

Well said. The only real solution is for the extremists who are enforcing the conflict (Israelis ) to stop what they are doing BEFORE asking Hamas to stop being extreme

[Nivsch]

@zazen The history does not agree with this simplistic categorization. The Palestinian side commited brutal acts against Jews long before Jews began to have military advantage on them. What is refused to be accepted here is that the Palestinian side can and most likely has ideological roots to this land, just like the Jews have those, and the consistent trial to draw reality like Jews are only the ones who have Biblical aspirations, but Palestinians are just innocent reactors, is going against the commom sense and the nature of conflicts and to some sense human nature in general.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@zazen If someone takes now only one city from your country, you will start to develop emotions towards this piece of land and won't be able to compromise with him. You will become ideological just like him to take your city back to your hands, even if he will be satisfied with this one city and won't do any occupation or any oppression on you at all.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

31 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen If someone takes now only one city from your country, you will start to develop emotions towards this piece of land and won't be able to compromise with him. You will become ideological just like him to take your city back to your hands, even if he will be satisfied with this one city and won't do any occupation or any oppression on you at all.

You think that the Palestinians deserve only reservations AT BEST on their own land. With no army, currency, or say in the overall culture inside what is their holy land

Just like the Native Americans. Just small pockets of land here n there but a fraction of what is truly theirs

You never talk about Palestinians getting their own legitimate state because you are afraid "human nature" will cause them to do the same thing to Israelis that Israelis did to them. Why didn't the Jews go after the Germans if it's human nature to get revenge?  

[Husseinisdoingfine]

18 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Serious question for those who know a thing or two about military tactics, maybe Israeli people here who have done mandatory IDF service.

But are the Hamas Yassin RPG's actually effective against IDF Merkava tanks?

Because Hamas keeps publishing these GoPro footages where they hit tanks with RPG rounds. But does that actually do anything? Tanks are really heavily fortified, and Hamas rarely shows the aftermath of vehicles they hit. 

Do these RPGs actually decommission tanks? Or is it just for show?

 

Two extra vids, really shows the brutality of the situation, and of human survival.

 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Nivsch]

@zazen It is not that your view isn't valid or not presented in an interesting way, and surely has points, but its about their partiality, not about being true or false. Another example is that Israel's military advantage is not accidental, but rather an overcompensation for its initial disadvantages on the macro scale of the Middle East. What this shows is that having a military advantage over someone does not necessarily mean a more self-confident position than theirs.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Zionism IS the problem itself.

In the same way Nazism was the problem in Germany.

These isms create war.

Most of the world did not support Nazi Germany but was disturbed by it. The only ones who did were countries with the same ideology like Italy or Spain.

Meanwhile most of the "Western developed countries" including green countries support Zionism.

How come?

How does Zionism fuel the survival agendas of Orange/Green countries?

Look how France, Germany, UK, Netherlands etc which are Orange/Green countries kiss the ass of Israel to the point where some of them said they will not arrest Bibi from the ICC warrant if he goes to those places although they are signatory to the ICC (outragous violation of international law).

 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

How come?

1) Guilt over Holocaust. Zionists are masters of milking the Holocaust.

2) Zionism is nowhere as bad as Nazism. It isn't aggressive towards other nations beyond the Middle East. Zionism is a much more subtle and sneaky ideology that slips under the radar unless you research it deeply and know all its tricks.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Leo Gura

[Twentyfirst]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Guilt over Holocaust. Zionists are masters of milking the Holocaust.

2) Zionism is nowhere as bad as Nazism. It isn't aggressive towards other nations beyond the Middle East. Zionism is a much more subtle and sneaky ideology that slips under the radar unless you research it deeply and know all its tricks.

Zionism has been causing trouble for at least 8 decades but technically longer. How long was Nazism causing havoc for? Middle easterners are about 12.5% of the world's population yet make up 50% of the world refugees 

[gettoefl]

14 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen It is not that your view isn't valid or not presented in an interesting way, and surely has points, but its about their partiality, not about being true or false. Another example is that Israel's military advantage is not accidental, but rather an overcompensation for its initial disadvantages on the macro scale of the Middle East. What this shows is that having a military advantage over someone does not necessarily mean a more self-confident position than theirs.

Agree with what you're conveying. Perhaps it's helpful to recall that one side denies the other's right to exist, period, and the other has recently come to deny the one's right to exist, as their neighbor. Both have such extreme entrenched positions that make it hard for any rationality or humanity to emerge. Things are worse than they have ever been. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

The kind of news all the "human rights organizations" won't mention and probably won't see because it's not even covered by any left wing media:

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/chris-kenny/retaliation-has-begun-antihamas-protest-leader-tortured-and-executed-by-hamas/video/ce38c0234fe29204b14d65f384b58aa2
 

[AION]

AI getting crazy 

[hundreth]

On 3/30/2025 at 1:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Zionism IS the problem itself.

In the same way Nazism was the problem in Germany.

These isms create war.

It doesn't matter whether you call yourself such or not. What matters if whether you make excuses for, defend, and promote the actions of that ideology. This ideology is a material force in the world. This ideology fuels everything happening in Israel. It is the elephant in the room. Nothing can be solved without addressing the elephant.

I think for most Jews, Zionism is Israel's right to exist. We are here now, we aren't leaving. We can do our best to deal with the wrongs of the past and create the best possible outcomes for the future, but within the parameters of reason.

What is Zionism to you? That's the issue with loaded terms like that. You label them bad, and then those with differing criteria and opinions get bundled in. You've now pushed them further towards the other side and increased extremism.