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There is a difference between; "Why is there something instead of nothing ?" and "Why is there not nothing ?" The latter being the more important one. The fact something exists is irrelevant because it does. What's more intriguing is why nothingness isn't the standard. All else being equal, it is more efficient and logical for nothing (time, space, matter, energy) to exist.

@Holygrail Oh but the realization of nothingness can go deeper. You've just begun to get in touch with Emptiness and so far, your understanding is almost exclusively on an intellectual level. You still believe in "somethingness" if you're honest with yourself. Only because you have seen through a belief intellectually, doesn't mean that you feel it. But you can. You can feel yourself as nothing and the world as nothing, or both. You will lose your sense of weight. The world may appear like a dream or a hologram. It can be a bit frightening at first, but even that is only because you still think the world is supposed to be something?

thats what i thought, though i believe there's a deeper experience to be had on nothingness than my realization

@wildflower LOL metaphysical claim, his nothingness is no further then GOD. buddhism which is famous for atheism speaks about GOD and claim nothingness is beyond, dont you see the irony in that? It is atheistic and materialism in a religion form. He has no clue at all about GOD obviously. A life denying teaching is what that is.

Everything I talk about is Nothingness.

Fair. The only person in the world for me that speaks different then this, that seems to encapsulate these other teachings but transcends them is Ajahn Brahm, he talks more about nothingness then anyone else. He also is probably one of the meditation masters in the world. I wonder what your thoughts are on the way he describes it, I've timestamped it, it takes 3 minutes, he talks about different states of conciousness, ifninite conciousness, but in the end there is more beyond, I recommend the whole video:

You cant capture infinity and Reality and say oh it is this way but no that way, in the beginning NETI NETI is a great thing but one should see that even if Frank and Leo talks about differences, it is still A MIND who is doing the interpreting, like Frank, he is doing metaphysical claims all the time and he pisses at Leo for doing it too, lol it is unavoidable.. Infinity includes and transcends it all, it is impermanent/permanent, it is everything and nothing. In his stages with GOD / NOTHINGNESS / CESSATIONS etc, that is pure MIND who puts its "experiences" on top of others, making a claim that this "experience" is more important then another, YEAH for him perhaps, likewise LEO has another, i dont doubt the wokeness of any of them, they certainly are.

So my GF has never been big on perusing enlightenment or spirituality in general, but she's always had a keen sense for it. She's been going to school and working and her time has been so preoccupied that one day she experienced nothingness. True absolute nothingness. It was a beautiful experience at first but then the next day she said she saw all of time; past present and future in a sort of "donut" shape that infinitely collapsed in on itself like a strange loop. She knows I understand what she means but she feels like she's going crazy and can't turn off seeing infinity. I've helped her a bit by explaining some of what this means, but also telling her how to ground and be present. She wants to get into meditation but it's never been a big thing for her. I have a feeling that will change soon. Leo's video on The Many Facets of Awakening has been exceptionally relevant for this. I'm very proud of her, but I also understand that this is very scary for her as well as exciting. She's been crying a lot and losing sleep because she keeps slipping into the infinite. I haven't seen her in a week and tomorrow I finally get to be with her again, but if anyone has advice or words of wisdom to help her through this rude and involuntary awakening that would be great. <3

Stumbled upon this gem of a man, it seems he has some very clear nondual insight, in the spirit of the hardcore Christian mystics. Here he speaks on the point of God as Nothingness.

Yes, well I have an other example. I had never meditated or anything and had a full blown awakening, while eating. Eternity, nothingness, no self, no external world, this is a dream. I needed 6 months to "make sense of it" and what happened was I ended up saying. It was a change in perception that made me FEEL LIKE I was in a dream and FELT LIKE it was more true than anything else. The external world SEEMED like it didn't exist and SEEMED like a dream. Basically I integrated a real intense awakening into the materialist paradigm. Fortunately now I know that materiakism is just ONE paradigm, and not the best one for changes in perception/awakenings. Intuitive knowledge doesn't need paradigms I guess.

@Thought Art As far as most mindfullness teachers explain it: it's about the awareness of the absolute 0. Its recognising where everything comes from and where everything goes to. Shinzen Young said: It happens to everyone thousands of times a day, the difference is being conscious of it happening or not. Cessation, dissolution (bhanga) nothingness. It's all about that "0". I don't believe that what you mentioned (beliefs intentions etc.) play a role at all, because it happens through every culture with some people never having heard of spiritual practice, and it's a natural process. Apparently there's a correlation between no-self and age. That's why old people tend to enjoy having children in their presence because, post-egoic and pre-egoic stages are more about love than egoic people who are "serious" and "worried" all the time. Sorry I went on a tangent.

You cannot experience Absolute Nothingness! Your Ego mind can imagine Nothingness from its microscopic limited bubble of reality, but the higher Mind that you are, is consciously creating you from moment to moment, it maintains all your thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, and emotions. It maintains all the Atoms, molecules, organs, and electromagnetic field of energy that you are. You exist beyond your limited Ego awareness. Consciousness = Thoughts in Action! Thoughts = Energy in Action Energy can never be destroyed. Once a Thought, Idea, image, belief, and Emotion is manifested, it will continue to exist in Absolute Consciousness for eternity. Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

"spacious" is a better word, as opposed to the forms appearing within it. See for yourself; "nothingness" isn't as bad as it sounds.

@Goldzilla yeah absolutely. Nothingness is not what you think nothingness is in actuality. This is nothingness, the question is just how conscious are you of what nothing is.

@Strangeloop Hahaha, I like how you shifted gears real quick from "yeah, a bunch of demons entered of demons" to "focus on material development". It's not meditation in particular which lead me to this today, or what lead me to my experience 2 days ago of focus on nothingness. What it was, was that a conversation with a friend of mine where I talked about my feelings revealed something to me I had been ignoring/denying to trying to forget. At the age of about 13, I had some crisis of faith about Islam ( the religion I grew up). I went on a rollercoaster of belief and disbelief. I would stare at the ceiling at night and be in terror, contemplating the prospect of living forever in Heaven. When in belief, I felt very mystically high and in bliss. But I eventually realised Islam was false, logically and morally, and went into a depression about it. That crisis of faith and meaning, it's remained unresolved. "It left a massive hole in me ontologically". One year ago I had a random seeing of Absolute Nothingness, but I ran away. My entire life, I've spent it distracting myself from this "hole". I've spent it distracting myself from this nihilism and nothingness, despite those things being so palpable in experience. That I exist at all! That is insanity inducing enough! Stark, raving mad. Don't you feel it too? But I denied and ignored that feeling, trying to make myself forget. The only bigger insanity than that though is the pretending I'm not insane. And so, it was the realisation that I run away from myself that induced all this, not meditation. A psychological breakdown, I have no sanity left, although I can give the appearance of it to others somehow. I think it's maybe because I simply don't wish to talk to anyone, that would be self defeating if I'm trying to reclaim all authority to myself and be an adult, and stop projecting. I'm on a journey from absolutely nowhere to no thing; life is pointless. Urinate on everything sacred. Enlightenment is a myth, everything is false. Even if it's futile, I'll keep going, because it's the same either way

There is no way of no thoughts in the present moment. You are alive because you continue thinking, even tho you want to experience nothingness that is only another focus on other things than thought. But believe me, you can't stop the thoughts processes without losing your life. You can only switch focus on breath per example and let thoughts come and go. The total dissapearance of thought is a blatant lie of society.

@ivankiss very sure. reconciling with your past may seem impossible in many cases. From the case you mentioned about the child bullied at school, to or the girl sold to a brothel, to the Congolese boy forced to torture his mother, there is a whole range of difficulties. It's not fair, why to me? nothing strengthens the ego more. trying to realize god to forget all that, it never happened ... it doesn't work! first you have to make amends no matter how difficult it is. It is necessary to understand that what is is not subject to what it should be. It comes out of nothingness, and is, without judgment. If you take away his judgment, the trauma turns into a shining jewel. It's liberation from should be, and like you said, it takes courage

There is no "you." What we really are is consciousness (nothingness), which manifests into form (reality). Reality is consciousness. You are reality.

Thank you for the detailed response. I have to say that I struggle with the possibility of the second experience (life, fullness, joy...) being deeper than the first (nothingness, void). Please, don´t take this as a stupid verbal challenge. You were the one experiencing both, and the one who knows the flavour of those insights, but in my meditative experiences everything that has a taste of life, of light, of "somethingness", like in your second trip, is always a product of an aware space where that fullness happens, and this aware void is prior to any experience. So I ask you: if you felt that the Absolute was the fullness, shouldn´t it be also present in the first experience? Again, I am asking this with respect and with the desire to know better about what you experienced. I am fascinated with 5MeO experiences. It´s just that its insights not always coincide with mine, and I want to get to the bottom of it all.

I can speak based on what I experienced with LSD and what Leo said in his "What is death?" video. What you're saying is probably the most accurate outcome of life after death. Leo says it, forum users say it, other sources say it, and LSD showed me it. It's completely lights out. No mind, no thoughts, no feelings, no attachments, no memories of life on earth, no human senses, no self. You cease to exist. One thing you're missing here though is that, with non-existence there's this state of pure bliss. Leo mentions this in the video, and it happened in my LSD trip as well. This is probably the best thing that ever happened to me, it was so peaceful that I actually wanted it to last for eternity. This is probably where the concept of heaven came from. Another thing to add is that, in a way its similar to us as humans, being asleep. But when we're sleeping, we don't really know we're asleep. We sleep on our bed, have some dreams then a couple hours later we're awake in our human body. And so, from what I experienced in my trip, you have complete awareness, awareness of nothingness. As humans we're aware that we exist as humans, but through ego-death you're aware that you exist as nothing. I wouldn't know if this lasts for eternity when we literally physically die and if we reincarnate into another living being but I would say there's nothing to fear if our memory of our current life is completely gone. Of course we don't have our current thoughts and feelings after we die, so there's no regret or wishing that we came back to life after we die lol, those thoughts don't exist anymore. Nothing is permanent. People talk about being afraid of death because they have so much to live for but what does all that matter if the illusion of life just completely disappears as if it were just a human's dream? That's like a human in his dream saying he's afraid to wake up because he has so much left to do in his dream.

Laser focused on emptiness I am. Mind and body slow down, but within next 2-3 weeks I have work deadlines to do, and you spiritual sages can mock me for not just being dedicated on one or the other if you want. But there's the calling to laser focus on this being/nothingness and I don't ignore. Staying with it staying with it I will be. It changes me. Can I still function in the world? Must a retreat be the only way? What the fuck am I asking you guys for though is the real question maybe. This question makes absolutely no sense obviously and is meaningless. Wow I'm full of shit

Comments after 12 mg vaped: first, sorry for my nickname, you don't have to break, you have to make love with yourself. now I understand: when everything disappears, there is no mind, the void opens ... and suddenly everything, the experience, the reality, is a negation. This denial is not the nothing, it is me. Saying no, you don't go beyond here. The universe is one, and that one is a no ... ufff and I still do again and again, because i forget, i remember like void, the nothingness, but that void is closed. Today I have seen through the no, the door, the one that I myself close and do not open even with a breakthrough of 18 mg, the door that is me. I have seen unity, limitless, love. I have not become it, but I have been kind to myself. I ve seen me, what I am, what I'm doing. I am someone who at one point had to take serious control. Now is the time to let it go. It is not a thing to do 25 mg vaped, it would not work. It is to leave it, to let go. I'm around. 5 meo is magic, it's an invaluable tool

I'm trying to make the case for why you should never, ever take psychedelics. I speak from my own experience, I have just recently discovered that I have "schizotypal personality disorder". If you would like to know truth, you have an inclination to want to know stuff 'correctly' and experience so called "truth" or to get out of the matrix etc., continue reading: 1. Why do you want that? -Because you suspect that there is more to reality than what you were told. -Because you already had glimpses that make you want to go further. 2. Why shouldn't you do it? -Because of suffering: It's pretty simple, you either open the gate to heaven or to hell. If you do it with regular practice, you can always back out and change direction. If you take psychedelics, you open the gate to either heaven or hell. 3. If you want more because life is shit, it might be hell that's awaiting you. 4. Psychedelics can make you schizophrenic or psychotic. -"Oh but that's just under the materialist paradigm, sane people who take psychedelics, without risk of developing psychosis can take it, it's only people that are at risk that shouldn't take it". NO. NO. NO. That's not true. It's schizophrenia-russian-roulette. Before you develop schizophrenia, you don't know if you can develop schizophrenia. If you're at risk, you don't know it. And if you have schizophrenia or psychosis, the thing that defines it is NOT REALISING THAT YOU HAVE IT. If you have it, you don't know you have it. 5. Oh but that's just the materialist paradigm, identifying and grouping symptoms and saying you're crazy, because you're neurodivergent. That's true, psychology and DSM-5 are just grouping symptoms that are common for certain types of extreme. Materialists and Psychologists/Psychiatrists don't know "Truth". However I have spent 3 years studying psychology, have had the exam on personality disorders and was blind to my symptoms corresponding exactly to "schizotypal personality disorder". I don't disprove the claim that psychology is wrong and spirituality is right. However what I can guarantee, is that SUFFERING occurs with those disorders. If you get close or into the schizophrenia spectrum, you're gonna suffer. You're gonna suffer really bad. Because you're going to believe every shit you're mind can imagine. 6. Realisation into the nature of consciousness isn't liberation. If you're not already liberated from the ego. If you don't already know that you're consciousness and only consciousness, than you're not ready for nothingness. 7. "Once I go through the dark night of the soul I'll know truth and then it's going to be over. I'll be enlightened." BULLSHIT. That's not true. I have been nothingness by accident, I didn't even take psychedelics, I just had a panic attack on too much weed. I have been through nothingness, eternity, dream-reality and countless other awakenings for 6 months straight. Every day ego death. It was painful, but apparently it wasn't the worst part. Afterwards I had years of bad bad social anxiety, general anxiety, paranoia, depression, anhedonia. And I'm not exaggerating when I say I couldn't understand why I suffered 1000times more than other people on a regular basis. 8. Suffering is just imaginary/illusion of the ego. It's not important. It isn't. I don't want to give bad ideas to people that are convinced that suffering isn't "real". It might be illusory from the absolute, but not imaginary. 9. Liberation isn't enlightenment: That's it. Get liberated. Liberation is easier to achieve sober, because it's gradually stopping suffering. If you get more than you can take, God's going to metaphorically rape you until you give up everything because you can no longer take it. That's not the way. That's not what you want. 10. "So what, I want enlightenment more than anything else. It doesn't matter if it goes through hell and suffering and psychosis." Okay good. so if suffering doesn't matter, it shouldn't take more than 2 weeks of strong determination sitting. You eat once a day, you sit in perfect lotus 3 times a day for 7 hours at once without moving. (Move your muscles in between so you don't get thrombosis). I have heard of people doing that for decades. Having no bed, just sitting all the time. So it's possible. The only good thing is: you can always stop doing it if suffering gets too bad. Get voluntarily raped by God until you can no longer take God's dick (metaphorically). Don't go down a pointless rabbit hole of suffering. I speak from personal experience when I say that no awakening is worth the suffering. Liberation is real, however glimpses of the nature of reality/consciousness don't guarantee a reduction of suffering! "I don't know anyone who got enlightened from psychedelics, but I know some people that got psychosis from it" -Shunyamurti. "No amount of objects of consciousness can lead you to know who you are" - Rupert Spira. "Meeh, I prefered the sober awakening because I was much more grounded" -Adyashanti. "I'm going to prove to you that I am an alien: ' hong kong, hong kong, hong kong, beijing beijing beijing, weep weep weep, korea, nosik nosik nosik, ouijikimininini, canada, canada, canadacake. eyfrey toray DVD toray. Deee Deeee Deeee' " - Connor Murphy

Came to share recent events in my life with regards to enlightenment and other personal matters. Took a week off work and did some contemplation. I was writing an essay on limitation and contemplating what it is in my direct experience. This has led me to a question "do things that cannot be experienced, exist?" which obliterated me. I made this thread to gain some insight into the matter and all the big boys came to help. I understood that I lost ground in my contemplation and started asking questions about things I have not experience of. In the process of tackling this question, I became conscious of the nature of abstraction and became acutely aware of how it dominates my experience. I understood experientially that every existence is unique and abstractions are a mode of thinking that is ultimately unsatisfying. After some more contemplation, I started reading "the book of not knowing" with hope to gain more insight into limitation. I read it once in the past and gained insight that I am the absolute truth from the first few chapters of the book that outlined the principles of contemplation. With every book, I start by glancing over the index and seeing which topics resonate with me. For the longest time I thought that this particular book is ought to be read from back to back. I mustered the courage and went straight to the last chapter about the true nature of existence because it sparked the connection with the relativity and limitation. With Peter's written guidance, I started contemplating what difference is, and I realized that it is not a thing and it does not exist. Yet, at the same time, I became aware that difference gives existence to "things". I became conscious that the true nature of existence is emptiness. I also became aware that it is impossible to understand it and it makes no sense whatsoever. Whoever claims to know infinity is full of shit. The intellect is entirely relative and it cannot grasp Nothing. Only not-knowing can bring about consciousness of nothingness. I was experiencing a lot of fibro-related pain at the time and I used this opportunity to contemplate what pain is. I quickly became aware that pain is an emotion and that true nature of emotion is survival and that survival is love, which is absolute. Again, only genuine, shocking, not-knowing can bring about this realization. I am Love, I am Existence, I am Nothing, I am Absolute. There is no such thing as a mind. As of yet, I was not able to properly shock myself into seeing the true nature of time. Today, in a dream, I understood that I have a belief that the present moment is beyond and around reality and contains it like a box. I know intellectually that it is a belief, but I am not currently able to access genuine not-knowing in this matter. On a more personal ground, my relationship with my sister rekindled after we spoke about numerology. I offered to show her more about it thanks to the books that were suggested to me by my friend @Zigzag Idiot. For the past two weeks, we've been meeting and I started teaching her I-Ching and showing how to consult the Sage. I am very happy that we are able to connect again and I will not let the ego appropriate this Cosmic Gift.

Who told you this to become nothingness? ? Laser focus on your breath, is the only way to stay focused.