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Hello Friends This is my first time!! expercience with strong determination sitting (sds) English is not my native language, but i read a lot in english and i learn now words/vocabulary every day. Feel free to correct me if you see a mistake! I meditate every day (very few exeptions to be honest) since 8 weeks. Started with mainly breating and mindfulness-meditation lately nothingness-meditation. I already see positive effects. Beeing more calm/balanced, more productive (i did a LOT! of stuff in the last 2 weeks only, seemingly without effort and without forcing myself, i just did it!), less self-hating ^^(yes i told myself sometimes how bad my life is/ or how good it WAS before i srewed up etc...) less complaining and more pro-active behavoir, and i feel im on the right path! Work to do! I just did 80 Minutes of SDS. It was totaly different from what i expected, it started of quite underwhealming for me just to bring me to places where i wasnt able to get to in the last 8 weeks with my other medi-techniques! Now that i did it i can say im glad i did and i will continue with sds every day throughout march. I feel like maybe 10% of this firsttime i can NOT recreate, but 90% of what i expericed can be accuratly be recalled. here and there might be a small chronologic jump. Some of this protocoll is "direct speech" or "flow of consciousness-speech" and some of it i edited into correct sentences.^^ 1. THE START I was sitting on my chair, silent humming of my refridgerator in the other room, i put on a sweater so getting cold wont be a topic/additional distraction, since i expect the partice of sds to be hard from what i read about it. straight back sitting on my chair i close my eyes... after 10sec already ^^ omg! how long am i in this? 10sec maybe? shit! a THOUGHT!!... wait it is ok im alowed to think in this one. but i didnt think a lot i didnt try to think something actively most of the time but it felt comfortable knowing that if i do, it is not a problem. god! this is borring! and also way to easy i just sit here ..so what? how long now? 5minuntes maybe? ...im made for this. this is waaaay too easy slight pain in the back ..maybe a 2 on a scale from 0 to 10. i can ignore it. Thought occurs: probably becasue im a sportive guy i released all my body energy already by doing gym-work and badminton yesterday so my body feels realy calm, maybe those ppl who struggle with "sds" are all overweight americans ^^ (sorry guys!^^) they think it is so hard but actually im way better than them... (ofc you are) how long now? 10minutes maybe? this is so easy what´s the point? should i even go on? couldnt i use my time better? couldnt i use the 80minutes for breathing meditation or nothingness meditation (which i did the last week every day and felt positive about it since i did it even thou i found it extremly hard to do the first times) wouldnt that be a better use of time , maybe im not made for this? WOuldnt it be better to stop now and do something else something "harder" .... pain in the back goes up to 3 ..still i ignore it. OR!! now a different thought occured... since i find it so easy...can i do this even longer than 80minutes ? i could do 5 hours...i can just ignor my timer when it goes of and do it longer they will be so impressed on the forum if i tell them^^ wait isn´t it a realy bad reason to want to impress people? i realized that impressing is kinda important to me and it is no coincidence that i want to do it here in this practice too and this might be my first small realization. I was not thinking: I SHOULD NOT impress or swearing i will never try to impress someone again from now ..but just realizing / narrating to myself objectively that i DO have the tendency to wanting to impress ppl in the last months/years and i felt intuitivly that is not realy something im proud of ^^ and i should keep an eye on that! ..nothing more and norhing less for the moment then my handy rang ..shit! (the first call). who could it be? someone at work, they sometimes call me when they need something i must help them out with, or maybe i forgot something important...nah! maybe my friend is calling asking me if we go bouldering today? but i cant since i hurt my ankle at badminton yesterday... maybe my father is calling? maybe i did something wrong maybe my aunt asking me if i can go buy food for my grandmother? it stopped ringing. it is not imporant right now...i have my free day, i dont have to take calls. i wont die! if i dont take the call.. it is fine! ok back to: this is easy im made for this, then i felt bad : pain in the back increased to 4-5, still no problemo but it is annyoing. leo said it will be worth to do "sds" maybe he doesnt know that im different, that it is too easy for me. if he could see how easy i sit here for like 15minutes now he would recommend me to do "breathing meditation" instead or someting else. ------------- 2. BREAKING UP then my state kinda changed and i cant quite remember / reconstruct how it exactly came to be. i didnt feel a hard change while i was doing it, but recalling it is a bit foggy for me. i know it had something to do with this: for some reason i cant quite remember the cause (althou it is probably secondary) i felt guilty , maybe because i mooved a bit while i shouldnt? and i went like: you piece of shit! you mooved! you failed..you fucking idiot! and i sometimes talk to myself in that way always implying that i dont realy mean it, it is more to motivate me ^^ now i realized that it is not realy helpful if i insult myself for doing something wrong?! also somehow that everytime i realize something, learn something about myself, i feel like there is the old me (not knowing the new thing) and the new me (knowing the new thing) and then the 2 are getting into a kind of micro-fight with each other, who´s the better "I" ...i realized this is fucking tragic! WTF am i doing? i realzied and remembered that i do this on a daily basis never beeing able to see what happens...that 2 mini-egos fight each other over who is the boss! first i felt mooved by this realization ...it wasnt realy crying. just feeling realy mooved by realizing how i get into arguments with myself, beeing able to see how sad this is! 2 tears went from my eyes, 1 right and 1 left. It didnt feel like crying, just like water is coming out of my eye. both waterdrops went down my face to my mouth and the right one was bigger i guess and went further to my chin. i felt something changed, i knew this place where i am now. i realzied that i have so many unrealsitic ideas about getting enlightend or the way i can change throu meditation, i can become this new "super human" kind of guy almost godlike ^^ in a way , my goals are actually ridicoulous i realized now, it will make "click" and im perfect i will understand everything and be happy for all the time ^^ i know and i knew of course: that cant be achieved it is just a child fantasy but at the same time a part of me still wants that or wanted that, i also cant exclude that the wish wont appear ever again , it probably will but next time it comes i can see it from another persepective. because now that i have seen what it ACTUALLY means to learn something about myself, to starting to know myself better, i realized what i can actually get from meditation and how it is so much more worth to me than beeing perfect and happy all the time or even like beeing a super-alfa-male 24/7 ^^ i thought about how tragic humans are, how most of them try their best to be happy (like me) but they only cause pain in themself and others cause they dont know what they do and what they are. the difference between the human intention to do good and actualy doing harm without knowing made me cry. it was too much at that point. it seemed so sad, so heartbreakingly tragic that all those peolpe realy honestly want to be happy but they all fail cause they dont understand shit ^^ 2 more tears go down my face... (now comes a part which does not! represent any political standpoint on the question of how to treat criminals, but it is rather an experience in empathy and seemingly understand the suffering of a psychopath/murderer) the topic about why people do bad things without knowing it took me to the question about criminals. why do some people kill others. why do some people become insane killers. are those people realy evil, or are they just completly diconnected from their own inner life from their emotions. what is wrong with them? of course i want them to be locked away and in prison but also i thought maybe they are helpless. what kind of pain must have been inflicted on them in order to create such personalites that can´t feel for others anymore that are completly numb. i saw those killers as childern and feeling sorry for them getting beaten in fact i thought: how dare i - how ignorant of their suffering do i have to be to judge those people i have no idea what they went throu!! start crying again this time with opened mouth , couldnt keep it closed , felt like caughing in an emotional way realized i should return to my pratice to not moove now but it is fine i mooved affectivly couldnt stop it now return to pratice... i thoght this year had already had 8 weeks and in this last 10minutes i had more meaningfull personal realizations about myself and the world than in the last 8 weeks. even thou i did my routin, 1 hour meditation , breating medi, body scan sometimes, nothingness medi the last week which realy felt like stepping it up for me, but i usualy had only positiv feelings, i smiled i had moments of joy even bliss in the meditation, i even had moment where i went: oooh! THAT`S WHO i am , or Ohhh! right im not that (rather abstractions/ feelings almost autosuggestive realizations) also i faced fear (in one of my first meditations in january i had the sense that someone stands behind me and wants to murder me ^^ i sat though that and made me face it ..it never came back or only in a softer form and then it went away) i never had concrete realizations about myself, what EXACTLY almost scientificaly it is that i am, what i do, how i behave. this time i had that and it made me cry i felt that having an epiphany that makes you cry because your realze how wrong and almost tragic your behaviour is worth more than smiling or feeling bliss... then again i realized that there is probably a time for each of them i wouldnt want only crying all the time ^^ but for now im realy glad i could get those insights! ------------------ 3. CALMING DOWN / JOY i hoped i can recall everything or maybe the most important things for people to read beacuase i also enjoy reading such protocols by others to kinda see what they saw. also i realized that by beeing prepared to narrate my experience it made the experience more clear for me. it reminded me of this psycho-therapy technique of just narrating what happend without judging, just objective desciption of events. i feel i was able to do this for the most part in the last 15minutes of this sds. i wished for it to end now and i felt like i realy enjoy it. i thoguht ok it was enough now. i have to write it down and let it breathe take a break now. OR! maybe i could go even deeper now...but there is still time the next weeks i will do this daily. so no hurry! i felt realy relaxed now, my back pain had completely gone and instead i felt warm and unified like ... you may laugh now: i felt like a banana it must sound horrible but it was realy funny and i had to laugh myself when i tried to explain to myself how i feel now and i came up with the banana comparison ^^ my body feeling was good i felt like one huge slightly rounded thing beeing whole. i felt like i expanded. i could still feel my body borders as a silouette but i was also in the whole room filling it up, it was realy nice! i felt refreshed and i enjoyed it. ----------------------- 4. LAST MINUTES / WORK TO DO... one time at the end maybe 5-10 minutes before the alarm went of i licked my lips and i thought ..awww np i wont tell them! wait what? im going to lie about stupid shit like that just to make me look better ^^ LOL i had to chuckle this is ridicoulous ..did i actualy just thought about lying , trying to make me look better even i realized earlyier in the sds that i shouldnt do that. that i should try to impress people. here i also had to smiled and realize it will take MORE! than only realizing things to stop bad habits in myself, bad habits have a momentum they are automatic almost and i have to be aware of them and stop them everytime they will occur in the next weeks/month. then i went nah ok...ofc i will tell becasue if i lie that makes me feel bad.. then i realized not lying just because you feel bad is also not a realy good reason isnt it? but i couldnt think of a better reason right now and i felt no urge to do so since im mainly supposed to sit still in this technique. then the second call came... i thought np. i wont answer it is fine... it stoped 1minute later the alarm went of. i did it! 80 something minutes... i waited the alarm to stop /wanted to do bonus time for some reason and then when it stopped i breathed sometimes in and out streched my back, and then started to open my eyes...eyelashes beeing glued together by dried tears ^^ i felt fine. i want to write down everything...here i am!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1612680208/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467541336&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=Guide+to+Investing+by+Robert+Kiyosaki&dpPl=1&dpID=41UqvEnLtYL&ref=plSrch Yes, true, but I prefer one on one especially with enlightenment experiences, or I like watching informative clips, like Leo's clips, and then researching. Once you find someone that could tell you a lot more, and it's actually informative and not just make-believe, there are a lot of discoveries. I know one can see more than just the no-self (everythingness/nothingness). Even Leo mentioned Ox's tail (Zen terminology) in one of his enlightenment clips. In other words, what I'm trying to say here is...you want to talk to someone who will not shed the wrong light. Both trust and knowledge has to be there. Leo did say in one of his clips-I don't remember which one-maybe it's his Graves model clip-not to get caught up in debates. I do agree with him. We need a lot of time for our life purpose. Yes, of course, it can be the same. Mine happen to be the same. I'm a bilingual teacher (career at a school). I'm also working online, have my own website, and wrote my own book (my startup). I wish you the best on your journey. Much success and peace.

Yea we've been over this. You have yet to show any depth of understanding to match your level of self-aggrandizement. Last time we talked, you were still working on "combating" your thoughts. Unlike anyone else here, my thoughts are completely my own. I'm choosing and mixing multiple potential realities on the fly, while people are still stuck on nothingness, and other beginner shit. Also, don't think I haven't noticed you've recently started talking about your "core". I wonder where you got that from?

Consciousness doesn't really exist. It only appears to exist in the Absolute nothingness. I am nothing, you are nothing and awareness is also nothing. There is indeed no perceiver to be found. But we are not a perception, because if we are a perception there has to be a perceiver. What 'we' are is the same consciousness/nothingness as the Absolute. Our minds don't really 'know' anything for there isn't anything to be known, the mind can throw some vague concepts around trying to define this consciousness but it cannot. And how could it? These seeming thoughts appear in the thing that it's trying to define. It's like a single cell in your big toe trying to define what the human body is, it can't be done because it can never see past the toe.

Meh, that's kind of dogmatic. You might want to ease that stance a little, so you don't miss out on nuance. I'm assuming that was just an off-the-cuff response? Yes, when it comes to sharing information there are limits, in a lot of ways we can only be a reference for each other in that respect. Definitions without self-referential experience to connect to, won't have much practical application as it is, but in this case the definition, in and of itself isn't the problem. The issue lies in what action people choose in response. There is a difference between using another as a reference or answer that replaces or substitutes the transfer of understanding that comes with involvement and experience, versus using another as a reference for gaining perspective on how to enhance and enrich the developmental process in concert with an actual practice. It's helpful to have some one point out structures behind the mind, that over time they can work to sensitize themselves to. And just as precious, is sharing structures of accountability and self-balancing that protects the integrity of continued development. I assume that's what you attempt with your videos in a way? Anyways, speaking of limitations or barriers, Bruno, it is also very important to work on becoming aware of limitation and learning from it. Gaining nuance with your own personal, dynamic, context-sensitive, "ceiling and floor". Some people feel limitation and respond with frustration, despair, anger, but it can also be precious, and enlightening (I don't mean no-self enlightenment here, I mean clarity). For instance my internal awareness is so deep and sensitive, that I can pick up on very fragile things going on inside my body. However, placing my awareness directly on those things, causes damage, making me sick. Why? It's because awareness in and of itself has a weight to it, like how you can feel the weight of a person's eyes/gaze on you even with your eyes closed. That weight can disrupt or distort the integrity of those fragile things structures and patterns of movement. So, with that experience we learn that even awareness has limitations, but those limitations don't necessarily mean loss, but instead an opportunity for trust and synergy with another part of who we are. Instead of trying to be directly aware in isolation, I mediate the weight of my awareness, through multi-dimensionality and contrast. Connecting with the larger structure they're a part of and gaining deeper understanding indirectly, from the inter-relations going on within that structure. Actually here is a video that better describes the patterns and structures inherent to seemingly invisible things, that are made visible via contrast. Contrast in this case, being the use of salt or sand to create a chain of inter-relation with the vibrational frequencies to make visible, what we could not directly perceive in isolation. Much like dusting for prints, it is the synergy and contrast of the dust and skin-oil that affords us the opportunity to be more aware. In a similar way, this is how I learned and gained capability with 12/? of the invisible structures I balance at all times that work behind and in concert with "thinking". Relating with how they all work and depend on each other, provides me an inexhaustible supply of growth experiences that changes and develops as I change and develop, creating momentum of synergy. See, it is experiencing these kinds of realities first-hand which make me shake my head at people who dismiss difference and contrast. People who say that all there is, is nothingness or everything is an illusion. That's a fucking ignorant and irresponsible stance. Even the void has a purpose and creates contrast when it inter-relates with everything else. It's a dielectric material. The universe is filled with different patterns of motion and shape and they all interact and have different chemistries with each other. For instance, notice how in the video the higher the frequency the greater the complexity of shape, but also how that complexity impacts uniformity. Notice where the the thickest lines are, how the rising and falling of motion affects the activity of the salt and the porousness of shape. Which area's have the highest zones of activity and which don't. There are principles of reality and nature and working with ourselves right there for people to understand, if we take the time to feel out how these interactions work together and inter-relate. Everything has a shape or pattern, even thoughts. Each thought also has a patterned chemical cascade, which plays a part in supporting it's integrity of shape and fidelity of expression. Why lose out on all that beautiful nuance and detail with an extreme or ignorant stance? I hope this helps.

@Greatnestwithin Good, when you do not find yourself while inquiry remember that you are not failing. Remember, who You are is pure infinite nothingness, and this is quite impossible for the mind to grasp as it can only grasp somethingness, it cannot grasp nothingness, it wasn't made to. Leo explains this very beautifully in his Enlightenment Guided Inquiry @ 55:00. I definitely recommend you to watch it if you haven't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq4NDMNDzSs A self realized person would see life and death as an illusion because he would realize that "he" was never alive to begin with, ever. The body and mind was active, sure, however, there was really no one that operated it, and ever will. A self realized person when coming to "his" demise would not flinch an ounce of fear when death arrives of the mind and body, for he has already realized the very nature of one's self and reality. That you are the Infinite, Divine, that the body/mind experiences from. There is no more identification with the body/mind, only to the divine nothingness, so then what is death of the body/mind mean to the self realized person? Yeah, it means nothing! Aha!

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can help understand how the subconscious relates to the authentic, true self. For a long time I have been in the process of tweaking and refining both my lists of top values and strengths as well as my life purpose statement. Every time I feel something click on the "inside", I feel like I'm making progress. In my head I'm conceptualising this as trying out different thoughts and theories and "checking" them against my subconscious, looking for the "gut reaction" or intuitive understanding I'm on the right track. However, I've also read a lot about how your subconscious seems to be largely constructed from your own life experience and can be re-programmed, through various mind techniques (which I've also been practicing), which makes me wonder, am I "checking" for a gut reaction or intuition against some sort of arbitrary state of thoughts / currently buried in my subconscious? I guess my questions are: 1. Is the subconscious where intuition or that "gut feeling" comes from, or does that come from somewhere deeper, like your "true self" or "highest self"? If the subconscious is constructed on the fly and prone to change, then it does not seem to me like a source of truth. The subconscious also seems likely to harbour as many negative thoughts as positive, if not more so. 2. Does the feeling of knowing your life purpose and your top values ultimately come from being in tune with your subconscious, which just happens to be configured to be a certain way, at a certain point in time? Or, are your values and purpose resonating with you on a more spiritual level, stemming from your authentic self - the true self that is essentially nothingness? Is there a distinction to be made between what's "true" for the body / mind and then a higher level of truth which does not care about life purpose or values? 3. What is the relationship between the subconscious and the true, authentic self? Does anyone have any insight into what kind of role the subconscious mind would play in the life of an enlightened person, or how it might operate? Would it operate in the same manner as it does for an unenlightened person, or would it simply be reduced to purely managing the workings of the body; digestion, heartbeat, breathing etc.? I've been struggling for a while to reconcile these questions, any help would be greatly appreciated!

@governor Dharma means the Buddah nature as far as I'm concerned. From what I understand we need an embodiment in human form, because how can "nothingness" be otherwise expressed of it were not through a teacher?

The ability of the brain to create objects within awareness from raw data (sight, smell, touch, etc) is so fundamental to truly understanding the breadth and scope of awareness itself. As an experiment, do the following: 1) Pick a mug 2) Now describe the mug using as many adjectives as you can (hard, shiny, smooth, etc) 3) Now, ask yourself: "Are any of the words I used to describe the mug an objective description of the mug?" Most people would agree that a mug is hard, but that is not objectively true -- from the perspective of someone that works with titanium drill bits all day, a mug is soft. From the the perspective of someone that makes disco-balls, a mug is rather dull in its appearance. Notions of soft/hard, shiny/dull, smooth/rough, light/heavy are all dependent on your frame of reference (and how your brain is currently wired). In fact, you can easily adopt the view that a mug is soft: imagine it just crumbling under the weight of a 10 tonne steel block. This view is no more false than the idea that a mug is hard! But here is where the interesting part comes in... Since a mug can be described as hard or soft, which is it? Both? Neither? What starts to emerge is that there are an infinite amount of ways to describe a mug. At the same time, the mug is objectively none of these things -- that is, the mug is in reality 'empty', only taking on characteristics once a mind comes along and gives it 'life', so to speak. To truly understand this is to see nothingness and infinity in a flower -- it is the ability to hold paradox in ones mind without cognitive dissonance. To truly understand this is to see how your own mind is sitting in a particular frame of reference to the world. Hard mode: Is the object you call a mug, really a mug? What is the purpose of a mug? To a young child, maybe it is a cave for a toy dinosaur? Which one is true? Play.

Awareness also only exist at the present moment. It exists only after the senses and thoughts. Without a sense, will you have the awareness which know the sense? They happened as cause and effect nature. Awareness has to be trained. So that later it appears naturally right after all the senses and thoughts. In enlightenment experience, that awareness sees everything is not permanent and also sees itself that it is also not a permanent nature. So the mind prepare itself to let go of everything. Then.... become NOTHINGNESS.

Why are we talking about all these? Nothing has a form, form is empty... this forum is emptiness Enjoy the nothingness of the forum Oooooohhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Good question! But no, don't worry that when awareness rises you will feel more shitty. It's the opposite. It might seem that way if you just think about it logically - like you do - but it is more like this: When awareness rises you literally become aware that everything you do is like a play. Sometimes you play the "good" side (when you are in your higher self and for example learning you for studies) and sometimes you play the "bad" side (when you are in your lower self and for example smoking pot while binging on ice cream and watching a netflix marathon). Not only your action separates in these categories (good / bad - white / black) but everything goes on in a similar way. For example you try to live your whole life (very passionately) not to die, because you have the sense in you that dying is something that just mustn't happen. Through awareness you begin to acknowledge how everything can bee seen as games, cycles and similar patterns. Not only that, but you also begin to see how you began to involve yourself so passionately in trying to make the one side win that now you are terribly afraid that black might win. Moreover, you know back in your mind that black will win in the end so you structure your whole life to get so involved in all kind of bullshit (other games) so that you don't have to face the fact that black wins in the end. And you just make too much of it. Awareness shows you that you are nothingness, incarnating itself in all kind of different games and patterns and that you are white and black, life and death and really can't die. If you begin to see that, you might still come across pains but it won't fuck with your head any more. It is by far one of the most cleansing and nice things to experience that you as the great self are immortal. It feels like being let out of yourself. And now ask yourself this: Isn't that really what you try to accomplish with all your bullshit involvements you make in your life? Cheers from Berlin,

During a SN Goenka vipassana retreat last week I experienced something very new for me. I was lost in unconscioussness, sleepyness and completely insane thoughs during a morning meditation. Suddenly a though popped and there was no reaction to it. As it dropped back to nothing I 'latched on' to it and dropped with it. At first nothingness seemed really far away but then just miliseconds after it was right at my face. Then for what seemed like 3 seconds my experience resumed itself to whiteness, silence, discrete joy and immense peace. No body, no world. Then body came back, and with it extreme contraction back into it. This left me excited and puzzled, very much. I wanted some feedback on this. How can I interpret this? Can I hold myself in that space for longer? Can I recicle this event for more growth? Thank you for your time

@Lorenzo Engel I can relate to that experience. It may be that the mind transcends all thought. Mind comes to a dead stop and only awareness remains. You can actually watch a thought coming out of nothingness and arising into consciousness like a bubble. It is a very blissful state of mind being at rest. Sometimes it is referred to as the state of Samadhi.

actually the idea of no self should be dropped, its an idea, a thought, a philosophy, it serves no good purpose. its about experiencing ones core being, what is your core being, it is the source of life, the creator of all things, the ground of all being, all knowing, all powerful, it should never be looked at as nothingness or no self, because it is all there is, everything else arises out of that.

@Bronsoval After life is all depending on your nature of this life. Did Leo say it's nothingness after life? Maybe he meant something else. All physical existences and mental existences are supporting each other and happening together at the same time. For example, your body is changing as well as your mind. When a person is stressful, his body is also affected by his mind and causes illness. Also both body and mind are happening or renewing again and again according to cause and effect nature. If there's a cause, there will be an effect. Every mental state, Buddhist called Nama and physical state will appear at the same time depending on each other. The quality of mind and body must be equal. If not the weaker state will adjust to be equal to the stronger state. For example, if stress level is stronger, body will also turn stressful and weaker. If the mind is happy and full of energy, body will also be energized. Or if the body is very sick, a person will be stressful if his mind isn't strong enough to lift the physical state up. That's the connection between body and mind and how they are supporting each other. So... when the body is very weak to the point where it cannot continue to renew with mental states or mental state is just to weak or stronger than physical state, a person dies. Because the mental state has to seek another physical body that fits well. By the way, we also should know that there is no distance or separation in this universe. So don't be thinking how the mind travel. So... as soon as a person dies, his mind will attach to some other physical body that fits well with the nature of the mind. That way, a human can become an animal or human again or something higher in the universe. Christian refers as angel, Buddhism refers to other beings in universe. You're responsible for everything you have now.

I would like to challenge the idea of nothingness after life. According to Leo, afterlife is the same as pre life, nothingness. This, I think, is based on the lack of information we can recall about pre life. Inability to remember an experience does not negate the experience.

Negative voice and emotion = fictional ego...the thought that helps you to solve problems, go for your life purpose, go for transendence morality, seek for enlightenment that is coming from the "everythingness" and "nothingness" is your true self. This is what "you" call being enlightened. In the end, "you" want to contribute to peace in this world. Having enlightenment experiences is different from being enlightened. Enlightenment experiences are outer body experiences or any wisdom that you get that gives out of the ordinary/meaningful info in life. It helps you understand your fictional ego. This is what Leo's clips are about. Nice story @Philip. I like your story on the ego.

be your own teacher, there is a master awaiting you within yourself, unleash it, this idea of nothingness, and no self, i would drop that nonsense too, the real you is all knowing, all power, ageless, experience your core being more and more, everything you need is there. following others is a long journey to no where most often, cut your own trail, your destination is self realization, don't let other people hold you back with their ideas of what you need.

Thinking is still here but you don t identify with it. It Is just belonging to the body/mind phenomenal world. It Is not of your concern anymore. Connect with the nothingness of your being. The one wich is calling your dead thinking conceptual mind to wake-up. Let it be. Stop associating the Truth with the non-thinking or meditation.

The only difference between this moment and "nothingness" is the direct experience. What I mean by direct experience is the physical senses, with no meaning (of the neuronal paths) attached. In other words, remove what it is felt through body and what it is thought through mind. That is nothingness... and that is who you really are

I learn something from every post I read... or better said, I unlearn everything that was programmed randomly in my idea of my self. That what you are saying sounds correct to me... the thing is that I think (I didn't experience it yet) that once you arrive to that point (it is also true that there's no point to arrive) you won't need to build anything. You will find yourself. But that's my opinion, we have to experience it and to do it, we have to go to the nothingness you were talking about. :-)

@abrakamowse Well I dont know anything about the real self.. Kinda get the feeling that just being is better than looking for the true self.. To be , do we just need to strip everything away and then start from scratch consciously??Really cautious about listening to a devine or higher self.. I would just be happy If I could get back to nothingness and build on that.. whatever it is that is deeper than that .. well Ill deal with that when I get there.. Seems pretty evolutionary.. I imagine once I get there Ill know what to do.. I dont really want to get somewhere, I just want to go.. if that makes any sense??

Maybe you came across this on the internet since it's kinda going viral. Beautiful short story. http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html The Egg By: Andy Weir You were on your way home when you died. It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me. And that’s when you met me. “What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?” “You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words. “There was a… a truck and it was skidding…” “Yup,” I said. “I… I died?” “Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said. You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?” “More or less,” I said. “Are you god?” You asked. “Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.” “My kids… my wife,” you said. “What about them?” “Will they be all right?” “That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.” You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty. “Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.” “Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?” “Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.” “Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,” “All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.” You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?” “Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.” “So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.” “Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.” I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had. “You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.” “How many times have I been reincarnated, then?” “Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.” “Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?” “Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.” “Where you come from?” You said. “Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.” “Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.” “Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.” “So what’s the point of it all?” “Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?” “Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted. I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.” “You mean mankind? You want us to mature?” “No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.” “Just me? What about everyone else?” “There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.” You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…” “All you. Different incarnations of you.” “Wait. I’m everyone!?” “Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back. “I’m every human being who ever lived?” “Or who will ever live, yes.” “I’m Abraham Lincoln?” “And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added. “I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled. “And you’re the millions he killed.” “I’m Jesus?” “And you’re everyone who followed him.” You fell silent. “Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.” You thought for a long time. “Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?” “Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.” “Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” “So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…” “An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.” And I sent you on your way.

Well "enlightenment" as it seems to be understood around here is about there being no-self and thoughts/beliefs are illusions or the enemy and what you want is "nothingness". Their idea of enlightenment is based on pushing away and disconnecting from thoughts, identification, internalization, and self-reference in order to maintain that void (that's their aim of course, yet despite that, they still have beliefs about belief being an illusion and self-identify as not having an identity. It's cognitively inconsistent if you ask me). That is extreme and one-dimensional, taking the pendulum all the way to one side, rather than working on being capable with the pendulum, so you can chose which direction it swings and the degree of swing along whatever direction chosen. In this case, the pendulum being the ability to choose the degree of void and the degree of attachment. That degree, is being capable with attraction and repulsion and being capable with the ability to hold the tension of attraction and repulsion as it pulls you one way or another. So rather than being afraid of thoughts, beliefs, the self you can differentiate the natural pulls and pushes that arise from the chemistry of our bodies and share that space with your own choices. That road is more expansive than "enlightenment". You're healthier, more expressive, capable, have greater choice, and deeper connections. You can build rather than just, reject, reject, and sit there in a void, that ends up dissipating anyways for them, because the greater the emotional intensity, the greater the charge of attraction, and real life is stronger than any practice of mental rejection (the void is actually a gap or vaccum that happens when your mind isn't fused/immersed within a thought).