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Because believing in something is essentially useless. You don't believe in God, you become aware of God, and then we tend to create a model and belief around the direct experience. Belief just isn't convincing enough because there's no basis to it, like direct experience. Is it really though? If I stare closely at my experience, there's nothing material about it to me. The "materials" are occurring in "nothingness"

since i have exhausted all my techniques i used to get here, i've find of realised that i have to start back at the bottom if i want to have life long practises - self inquiry, journalling , contemplation, kriya yoga are all tecniques used to question but i have never done a technique that has to do with simply being in nothingness do you have any lifelong techniques i can build and develop?

@PreetomUpon non duality, the realisation of and abiding in “nothingness”. Due to the nature of my experience itself and the path that led me to that experience. My teachers, advaita Vedanta and etc. I realized something. Something that was thought of and expressed in a contradictory fashion. “I am eternal and everything” & “I do not exist”. I thought nothing of this contradiction. My experience seemed unquestionable. More real than anything I had ever experienced. Time passed. I got and completed my kundalini process, got involved with esoteric vajrayana practices (that I would highly advise against), and proceeded to realise the massive difference in depth between teachings and teachers due to the immense change in the nature of my non dual experience. Some teachers and most people not in non duality describe this immense change in depth and experience as a “deepening”. I can only assume those that say that haven’t been through what I have been through. It is much more. Much much more. In each state, each level of depth, different conclusions and beliefs, and ideaologies were formed. Different interpretations of my experience. Of reality. Of everything. The Buddha went through this as well. He realized nothingness. That was the first step in his journey. This realisation wasn’t a glimpse. The full thing, but he was through it. As he saw through everything that came after. It wasn’t until full enlightenment that he gave up the ever so convincing eternal self up as another delusion. A misinterpretation of the truth of Anatta. *sadhguru tone* Anatta means... there is no unchanging thing that can be called a self. This does not merely apply to a human being. It applies to those who say they are the eternal self as well. Such people simply misinterpret and filter the truth of non self through their contracted system and come to a contracted conclusion. Far from true enlightenment all of them. Anatta also denies the reality of a soul, an individual essence, unlike less nuanced traditions, however it does not deny the reality of seperation, if you live as a separated self. That is your reality. This is just obvious. Denying it is foolish. Your separated self, however, is just a part of a process. Not an unchanging thing. That is the problem with some non dual teachings as well. They trade the unchanging seperate self for an unchanging “witness self”. Nothing is unchanging within this world. Including any sort of self. Which can become just another thing the seperate self that thinks it’s moved beyond tells itself. Just to clarify and to elaborate : Most that experience non duality, are still individuals experiencing non duality. Non duality is filtered through their karmic conditionings, and produces a state that is very convincing, but is ultimately another delusion. As a result their conclusions are half baked, their teachings one dimensional. Only those that completely move beyond the limitations of the karmic body, and it’s filters see the truth of Anatta.

There are ongoing blips of enlightenment in the slow and fitfull awakening process. It can trigger ego backlash. Good news Bad news. It happens to everyone repeatedly, eventually. We experience perspectives of enlightenment all the time but until integration of knowledge and Being create continuity, we remain susceptible to a unique amnesia that divides the personality against itself. The personal essence or Pearl beyond Price is discovery of Being and its continuity and the nothingness of personality. A continual return to Ordinary Idiot is a part of the method. The horizontal pendulum path and the vertical ladder occur simultaneously after a time Motion in Path of knowledge is on horizontal Pendulum plane of personality Ordinary Idiot Super Idiot Arch Idiot Hopeless Idiot Campassionate Idiot Squirming Idiot Square Idiot Round Idiot Zigzag Idiot Motion on Ladder of Being is in vertical dimensions resulting in yo yo of Being Enlightened Idiot Doubting Idiot Swaggering Idiot Born Idiot Patented Idiot Genial Idiot Polyhedral Idiot Master Idiot Perfect Idiot (Fully Realized Idiot) Holy Idiot Cosmic Idiot Unique Idiot - God All of this is true, if you're a striving Idiot. If you're not, it's not. The ups and downs of life are observed on the yo yo. The ups and downs of life are identified with on the pendulum.

Ohh boy where do I start okay? Problem – the problem is even after full enlightenment and one realises everything Is indeed an illusion, it is in itself is freedom from bondage as you understand yourself as the big self. Continuing along this notion even realising full enlightenment does not garuntee one thing. It is how to live life after this must be done according to adhering to the strict disciplines of methods and techniques one used to get to where they are now. The problem that continues to follow is there embodiment. If we consider non-duality. It means one … there is no need to go out there and solve problems and raise other you’s consciousness as you have declared that everything is beautiful and perfect. ON THE other hand, the problem I proposed above has not been solved. Let me continue with an example through method 1) Look at your watch or clock 2) Notice the tick moving in the actual present moment 3) Observe the illusion that is time 4) 1s 2s 3s 4s 5s 6s … 1m 2m 3m 1 hour 2 hour 3 hour 1 day 2 days 5) This Is direct experience and observation 2nd example 1) Look at the mcdonalds sign or your favourite food 2) Notice that it is just a pixel on a screen or the very thing infront of you 3) Observe the illusion that is what you are looking at colours, shape, etc.. etc. 4) Question what is the illusion that my mind is psychologically producing 5) This is the self-deception that leo is talking about 6) This is direct experience and observation You see the part that is missing for full buddahood is the that saying everything and nothing is an illusion in your conceptual direct experience Example … I see illusion , I see illusion, I see illusion is what your mind is probably conducing in these states of very high conscious levels that you are currently at. However, there are still millions of levels higher to go within your direct experience. The method I am talking about is the method of observing something for thousands of hours to see the illusion itself. Once you see the illusion , it gets embedded in your awareness completely and not conceptually. Yes it is true we are one thing but there are still alternating levels of seeing the present moment that is now To express this mathematically My consciouslevel I---------------I--------------------I--------------------I---------------------------I LEO’s current level I------------------------------------------------I------------------------------------------------I Yousefs current level I-----I----------I--------------I-------------I--------------I-------------I------------------I-I-I-I Nahms current level I----------------------------------------------------I---------------------------------I------------------ Ivankiss current level I----------------------------I----------------------I------------------------------I------------------I Anton current level I------------------I------------------------I------------------------I------------------------I------- Pretoms current level I-----------------------------I--------------------------------I----------------------------- (don’t take them personally, I have no way to actually state what they are, they aren’t even assumptions. Just merely using names for demonstration purposes) What this shows is that our conscious levels are varied even though we all know the same truth and are at the same exact place, I personally feel in our embodiment Buddah current level ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These I signs represent the now, we are all in varying degrees of now. The path to buddahood itself requires you to continue to break illusions by directly observing the illusions for hours on end until every self-deception is embodied at a cellular level. THIS IS DEVELOPMENT the stage after enlightenment- which we all know is not the final thing so per say. This is what it means by raising your consciousness daily - Eating 1 or 2 times a day - Sleeping at 10pm and waking up at 5pm - Continue meditating and self enquiring into nothingness This is one type of buddah because they are increasing all of consciousness by their very own practices, this is what true non duality means. There is no need to produce life purposes like the one I have chosen for myself to build schools in third world countries as some of you may have read. This is contradictory to true non-duality. BECAUSE you can do the exact same thing by being consciousness itself and raising your own consciousness. You will be going into a deeper now. What you will find is you will start to develop psychic abilities by definition of not knowing what it is but really it is just different levels of consciousness through development of self and direct observation of illusions. Consciousness is infinity and so is nothingness. But separating what is actual now from psychological nows will raise your consciousness higher and higher and higher and higher. Until well I can only hypothesis the more you let go and do this life long practice by yourself. You will discover consciousnesses that are not even currently available to humanity and be able to explain them as illustrations through your direct experience. My point or solution is: the road is infinite there is no end what ever stage you think you are at now, there is always a greater now to observe. Observation is awareness and the only tool by which direct experience can arise. So I conclude: it is a choice that one must wake. Dive into infinity or stay at their currently level to fulfil their life purpose. Some may even create the life purpose to attain buddah hood which is a term for the highest possible state that one achieved in this lifetime. The unfortunate thing is that if you stop, this is a self-deception you are implying on yourself. Enlightenment was seeing past the illusion Development is diving into the dark without knowing what to expect This is indeed the deepest insight I can give YOU guys, I have decided that I have gone as far as I need to complete my life purpose. But imagination is infinite, this is truly and is only the start of the road to infinity when you have broken the barrier to an enlightenment. There is always one more step you just have to keep inquiring to find out what it is ? happy new now. i can't help you past this point, its just down to your radical openmindedness and direct experience to see if its correct or not! aswell as the path you wish to take in your lifetime. ALL I KNOW is were all in this together by definition ahaha :') i love you all

I need time to write up my deepest insight, take it as motivation to any one who wants to go higher and i'll explain the method to do!! from there its up to you. I'll explain as much as i can and you'll see why it'll be my deepest insight. This is only for people that have reached infinite something/ nothingness , in other words, those who consider they have found truth. It is the last thing i wanted to contemplate and i can't go further because i see now that i only took this journey to see what was the best solution for others (my life purpose) the post will be called "why there is way more to go" give me like 2 hour ish.

@Key Elements on third thought, i understand what your saying now. The truth is the truth regardless of what way its dissected and life purpose is created. Theres only one direction to go to find the infinite. My answer is yes, i've been contemplating but only individuals who self meditate and adhere to strict routines of consciousness can go higher all together. It's like the purification process is still going forward to the highest human being consciousnesses. Only the person who travels that far can build the foundation at that level. The continuation of finding a deeper what is nothingness and self -inquiring. this is the path the independant buddahs choose for themselves, to let go completely to infinity. There are subsequently millions of consciousness levels higher than the one i'm at. But me personally, i only came this far through self-experiment to find the truth and learn how to guide other people in the correct way. this is personal development/ life coaching i realise now. thats why i want to set up schools personally. I understand the difference it's what i've been contemplating for the last couple of days i finally see it. So good luck on your journey's my old friends, theres still along ALONG way to guide people to infinity, but embodyment still needs to be done.

@winterknight once there is realisation of non-doership or no control or state of nothingness - mind immediately gets afraid and steps back into dream-fog and 'returns control' to itself. there is no one in no-control state. but once there is no control and no one there - mind interprets it as no control and as no one and steps back into dream and its never ending circle what to do? how to stay in state of no-control?

The idea is not to make a virtue out of emptiness. That would be just mere philosophy, and it's called nihilism. The emptiness that is attributed to the Self does not fully represent the truth of the matter. This idea predominantly comes from Nagarjuna's Doctorine of the Void, but somehow has been misinterpreted by many people to mean nothingness, or emptiness. It's more a recognition of the fact that awareness cannot know itself as an object. The void is supposed to teach us that no matter how much we try to ascribe meaning to reality, it will not be true. But you already know this yourself.

Oh, I see. If you're just here to agitate people's demons for the sake of agitation, then I can get behind that, bruh. Carry on, carry on. I reckon people call others delusional because maybe they see some of themselves in that person. Projection, you know. Though I don't go around calling people delusional myself, I can understand the sentiment. Whenever I see someone making the same mistakes that I did back when I was at a similar point in the journey--mistakes that seem so obvious to me now from this better vantage point--sometimes I get the irrational desire to smack them. I still haven't gotten past that stage yet. I dunno when I will. I point at people, too. As for why people call it "nothingness" or say that the truth is that we're "nothing" is because...that's one word for it, I guess. Personally, when I experience reality most acutely, one of the first things I notice is the lack of something that was there before. The voice stops talking. My brain stops editorializing. I start to get the sensation (not the thought, not the feeling) that there's space where "I" should be. Calling it "nothing" is just one way to call it. It either makes sense to someone or it doesn't. But of course it's silly to think that telling someone that they're "nothing" will help them see this at all. People really should respect all stages of the journey and realize that the only way to move through them is with personal experience. This is why I think debates are kind of pointless. Words can only vaguely, vaguely, VAGUELY approximate, so how do we even know that we're talking about the same things?

generally speaking in the widest sense it’s still about nothing. but i confess the word did not show. so maybe for the count of it... my first post had an enormous amount of condensed nothingness. so may it be forgiven. back to the initial content.

Proton, electron, neutron Particle, anti-particle, potential particle Positivity, negativity, neutrality Man, woman, child This trident completes us You cannot take one part (neutron, void, nothingness) and make it your identity which is why Ivankiss is mad You cannot take only the light (proton) either and pretend love is all there is to it We integrate light, shadow and void/infinity, with that we form a family, an atom, a seed, a cel, a reality

This. @ivankiss Although, don't allow the conceptual nothingness and somethingness to become just another dualism in the mind that causes separation. It's unity.

You may want to contemplate the distinction between radical acceptance and extreme endorsement. We can accept the divergence of expression in experience and explore it fully without having to identify with the expression in experience by endorsing it to an extreme....or at all Although, your point is going to completely lost on the 'nothingness' gurus because of the dogmatic adherence to what they believe is 'truth' according to their dualism mindset. Don't let them steal your joy! If you are experiencing genuine liberation in awareness of just being present it will be obvious......right now it appears not quite realized.

@ivankiss Do a piece on negative space. Here is a bit inspiration thanks to Alan Watts The system as a whole appears to be a distribution of solid entities or modes of energy in the midst of emptiness or space. Human consciousness preoccupies itself with these entities, and virtually ignores their spatial background. We consider it "nothing" in the sense of that which has neither importance nor significance, forgetting that without the spatial field, none of these entities could be manifested or distinguished. There is, however, between space and entity the same polar relationship as between crest and trough, for which reason "nothingness" is not simply the contrary or absence of "being", but rather its ground and origin. We believe so firmly in the maxim "ex nihilo nihil fit" – "nothing can come out of nothing" – that it is almost impossible for us to see that emptiness is the essential prerequisite for every form of being,

I was thinking about this topic yesterday, since you bought it up. What if you could define bodhisattva as nothingness and buddahhood as your laughing joyful state. I have began questioning whether the term "the buddah went to the highest levels of consciousness possible" but if it was infinity then in a sense, its just an analogy for the action "too seek higher" but eventually one has to pass through bodhisattva (nothingness) either way to get to buddahhood!

@Aakash When Ken Wilbur was describing it to her, he sounded like he was metaphorically speaking of an enlightenment. There is the nothingness phase, the everythingness phase, and the void phase. Instead of going through something, like the void, and thinking of it as a phase, the nothingness and you are already the same. Even the transformation is an illusion. It's good to know what is the transformation so you know where you came from, but you are already it. In other words, you're always that Space = Nothingness, and things are transforming within that space. But, if you happen to catch hold of a temporary embodiment, it sucks. You rather be the space. Temporary things are meant to be released, let go of, detached.

@Mu_ yeah it makes sense, Its prepping for the now.. almost like a mantra of some kind that directly connects your being to nothingness/ infinite something! in your present experience

I found a very interesting diagram: If anyone would like to share some good insights into this, please do. If you could share some info that most ppl don't know, that would be great. Here's something interesting: bo·dhi·satt·va /ˌbōdiˈsätvə,-ˈsət-/ noun (in Mahayana Buddhism) a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings. Question is: What do we do in life to achieve full "Buddhahood," peace, no-self? Maybe, perhaps, one way to do it is to realize that we are everything and reduce suffering (through life purpose or something), and also just "Be" while going through the process.

I would call this group contemplation as a single unit! we all write abstracts with no intent of having meaning, we discover in our now.. we write those words that we think make sense THEN! someone else will recontextualise it, after our aggregated recontextualisation forms it into a spritual word I.E absolute nothingness. We all understand what that is, or enlightenment... these are spiritual words

this very post i posted has no logical sense to me... its almost like it contains no meaning from my point of view.. although i'm trying to put it in an coordinated manner ... still the meanings are infinite because you leave it to the imagination of the individual of the infinite on your sides of the screen. Its like a magnificant social-complex as @ivankiss once said to me.. I just think if i was to forecast future that lets say everyone was enlightened then what ? the world would stop in absolute nothingness lol there would be nobdoy to enlighten. At this point enlightened ego's would develop ?? they would be from the truth which is absolute nothingness and so you could call them true egos or ! true-trues!

@Serotoninluv , @Preetom I propose reversing the all duality paradox's all together AT current i feel like 1 and 2 become 1 then that 1 becomes 2 (by natural phenomena) and that becomes 1 then becomes 2 again, the strange loop never ends. YOu are left with paradoxs with no answer at all. Given you reverse all paradox's you create new terminological meaning and then you can rearrange with your true ego this time. Its basically what i feel leo is doing. You can't read into a situation properly unless your enlightened to some degree thats one issue The second issue is that if your enlightened and you end up being content with absolute nothingness or what ever position you are at then thats completely fine as we all know. But it , itself , to me that is. Does not signify it's the end but only grounds for a new landmark to take place. Since i believe something is changing. even if something is nothing. nothing is changing to or non are changing and this is where you end up with @winterknight negating dualities. I think here all thats left after this is imagination. Not the imagination of the false ego you create out of unconsciousness but the true ego you create out of consciousness and then you split back into 2 and then go to 1 ,2,1,2,1 and it's a never ending cycle for the whole of infinity.

@Hellspeed although i don't critise your expressionism; IT is very abstract :') @purerogue comment had me in stitches; none the less i can see both sides of the arguement; i think what ITs saying is there's no hidden meaning of nothingness in your words; your just throwing out pure expression of imagination and its difficult for unenlightened people to grasp and so its so called scyfy looooL!

Hi fellow integral fucks I wanted your take on this. In Judaism, most of the practice is about proper attachment, rather then detachment. There are so many guidelines! like 613, some of them are in form of `don;t be a woman`, etc. A third of the Buddha's teaching is about proper attachment, which is the morality part, Sila, which is basically about living life for the benefit of yourself and others around you. I'ts often said, concentration and wisdom( of nothingness) can be mastered, but the morality part cannot be and goes on forever. I'm pretty sure all tradition include some form of `proper` attachment, growing up in Israel, I hated the guts out of the orthodox Jews who were so strict with their Kosher and shabbat and that shit. But now come to think of it, how valuable this can be? Live consciously, any question about the behavior and morality is answered by the holy books, and you just follow and concentrate on being with God on the way. We here, at actualized.org often here that we are God, but yet to be aware of that, that we are nothing, but the infinite one-ness suchness that prevails all of everything and anything and absolutely infinite and benevolent. Imagine coming to terms with that, physical reality ceases to exist? everything disappears? Every time you have a conversation will you deny everything and claim "No no no, we can't have global warming because there is no planet, and warmth is a dualistic concept" I take a guess that it doesn't happen. We are stuck in this physical dualistic world so long as we are aware of it. So, detach all you want, but perhaps it will be much more beneficial to attach properly, as the Jews do, not necessary in their style, but you get the general idea. Thoughts?

@SOUL Love it, haha! I look at it this way; I am unable to tell if there is a mind besides my own. How could I possibly know that? I can recieve no evidence of these "minds" through my direct experience. All I know is that there are thoughts, beliefs, actions, appearances. And something that claims those it's own. This core idea; belief. Ivan. And than there is also awareness. Nothingness. Infinity. Aware of all those. Of itself. What do I compare the sanity of my mind to? How can I know my mind is less or more deluded than any other? There is no way to tell that. Therefore, my conclusion is that, from where I stand, there is no other mind who can be trusted. Sanity is insanity.