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@PRai1ND1A Because triality will collapse into nothingness, balancing each other. That's why duality exists and triality doesn't. I don't even know how I wrote this as an answer.

I think this is one of the final frontiers before complete liberation beyond the dream. When I do yoga bandhas which you are supposed to hold the breathing, I go back to source, I stay that void nothingness trying to overpower any thought that might arise about 'needing to breath', until.... an explosion of fear-burning sensation in my chest happens and I automatically breath again. Is not a physical sensation, is literally the feeling of FEAR and Terror the body has. Is an automatic response built into the system.

I did about 6g's of shrooms yesterday. As I was peaking, I meditated deeply. As I focused inward, I was able to go very deep in meditation. Thoughts would come, I would acknowledge them, and let them go easily. Much more easily than my sober mind is usually capable. I have been listening to Shunyamurti a lot recently, who has helped me in that practice of not clinging. I entered into an incredibly blissful state. I forgot who I was in this state, and where I was physically. No ego death, maybe a sort of ego dissolution. Ego-death I have experienced in the past was much more intense, scary, and challenging, truly dying. In those states, there was no sense of ego or self whatsoever, complete non-duality. This wasn't quite that. It wasn't like 5meo-Dmt. It was more like I could bring myself in and out of this state. In this deep place of surrender, my mind would take me places, and I allowed it to go where it wanted. I just watched where my mind would go. It felt as if I was being shown certain things, and certain stuff was being communicated to me through a deep intuitive sense. This happens during regular meditation for me, but it felt so much easier now. For example, I felt intuitively that I could astral project very easily from this state. Then, I remembered my physical body sitting cross-legged in meditation in my living room. I got up from this position and walk around my living room. Then, I remembered I didn't actually get up, and found myself back in the nothingness of my mind, astonished and slightly scared that I was able to do this so easily. Again, same thing, I would convince myself I had gotten up, but then I would feel a sort of fear of this exploration, and return to my body. Like "Did I just get up? I'm supposed to be meditating cross-legged, not getting up. Oh wait, I didn't get up, I'm still sitting cross-legged." I have practiced a bit of astral projection before, but was never able to do it so easily. Also, I was able to explore other realms similar to n,n-DMT. I could enter this place upon surrender. Then, some thought would bring me back to my body. There was a bit of internal resistance and fear in letting go of course. As I would try to conceptualize the realm I was in, or even think about the realm, I was brought out of the realm. There were many patterns and there was an entity, but this realm is now hard to recall, sort of like a dream. I had been there before. I was aware that if I were to take higher doses, and do the same practice, I could explore these other realms very easily. Lastly, I felt intuitively that I could manifest objects into reality. Not just manifest good outcomes for myself in this material life, but literally manifest objects out of thin air, and will them into existence. That's where the strawberry came into my mind. For about an hour, I kept getting visions of a single strawberry intermittently. In my blissful state, I would leave my body through astral projection, have a thought which brought me back, dismiss the thought, drift away to some other realm for some amount of time, have a thought bringing me back, dismiss it, etc. Sometimes when I came back, there was a strawberry in my mind's eye. I dismissed it. Again, I drifted away, and back again I came, just to visualize a strawberry in my mind. This went on for quite some time. I wondered if I could will a strawberry into existence, right then and there. I knew I could wake up from this meditation with a strawberry in my hand. Intuitively, I knew this was possible. If only I could master this state of mind, this deep place, I could manifest a strawberry. After awhile, I felt like the effects were starting to wear off just a bit. Unfortunately, I didn't have a strawberry in my hand after coming out of the trance. I got up and looked around the living room. No sign of a strawberry. I checked my fridge for any strawberries. There were no strawberries, but there was an Arizona Iced Tea strawberry lemonade. I thought "Not good enough." I walked into the other room where my girlfriend was. She had taken a baby dose of the shrooms. She was having fun, but wasn't as high as me. I asked her what fruit I'm thinking of. I told her "Do not guess, think about it for a second. But don't think about it, just intuitively say what fruit I'm thinking of." She sat for about 30 seconds, smiled at me, and confidently said "a strawberry". Did she guess correctly? She said she kept thinking about different fruits, but kept coming back to the strawberry. She knew.

As you probably know, buddhists are against the idea that there are a permanent Ultimate Reality. The ultimate test for them is the state of cessation (nirodha samapatti) where everything disappears into nothingness. However, for Stephen Snyder, both cessation (unmanifested) and manifested reality are expressions of the Absolute. 01:18:40

I have been contemplating the safety of 5meo-DMT. I only have a bit of experience with the substance, and have only "crossed the threshold" once, experiencing a deep fear, a scary body response, followed by an eternal nothingness. Then, I was overcome with the deepest gratitude I have ever felt to be alive coming back, and deep appreciation for the dream we call life. I could tell that I was "creating reality", and that I loved dreaming, and that I chose to "go back to sleep". I knew I was alone. Fully alone. I now know without a question of a doubt I am God, and that reality is entirely mental projection. This has required much integration and understanding. Since then, I have used the drug in much smaller doses, usually as a meditative tool. My ROA was always vaping, or I would sprinkle some freebase 5meo with marijuana. I can not bring myself to try for a full-release again for multiple reasons. Every single time I do 5meo, I have a very similar response. An increase in heart rate, very shallow breathing, then what feels like very low blood pressure and a slowed heart rate. I always just convinced myself this drug is generally safe, especially in small doses. And these effects are no big deal. This seems to be the consensus on this forum. But recently, I experienced something very scary. On a very small dose, I experienced a distinct heart palpitation. My heart was already beating very slowly. It felt almost like my heart was remembering to beat. I felt intense fear. Like I could kill myself by going any deeper or letting go. In that moment an intuitive voice notioned to me, almost like a sort of divine intervention. "This drug will actually kill you, for real, not just psychological death, but real death. Cardiac arrest." I have experienced ego-death on other psychedelics before, and have had horrible trips, but I have never felt something like that. This was real, and there is no convincing me otherwise. In that moment I knew how deeply dangerous this drug could be. I still feel this, and in a sense, am looking to others to convince me I am wrong or just overreacting. I will preface this by saying I have not had any tests done on my heart before experimenting with this substance. I could have some problem. Also, I realize heart palpitations can be normal, and are not always a sign for alarm, but this intuitive voice needed to be heard. I truly believe this drug can cause serious problems with your cardiac or respiratory system. Right now I plan on never touching 5meo again. I know what most here will say including what Leo has said before- "You would not have actually died etc, nobody has died off that low of a dose" People will also say "low doses are harder on the body- you didn't do enough". In this thread, the user puporing claims to having almost died from boofing 15mg of 5meo. Leo responded: I can't help but feel like Leo was wrong. Without a proper facilitator, @puporing could have died. They could have passed out, vomited and choked, could've stopped breathing, could've had a seizure, could've tried to get up and fallen and hit his head. I feel they could've also gone into cardiac arrest. Puporing was also experimenting without a facilitator. I would go so far as to say you could die for real, even with an experienced facilitator, and they may not be able to save you. In the thread, people argue with puporing, saying that he/she would've been fine, that his/her former experiences of ego death were not ego death, and this was real ego death, etc. Puporing insists it was not just "struggling to breathe" but that he/she was suffocating. Puporing claims commenters were gaslighting their former trips and experiences of ego death in the past to claim "you were just experiencing ego death for the first time, you only thought you had experienced it before." I know ego death comes with a physical feeling of dying. This usually happens with ego-death. But part of the problem with 5meo-dmt is that the entire point of the drug is to "die". So in a sense, people will downplay the reports from people claiming to have "almost died". But I am trying to parse how much of this experience is actually BECAUSE you are dying physically, or are coming close enough to physical death that you are experiencing the ego dissolution, then as the drug wears off, you survive, and feel this "gratitude for life and appreciation for the dream" simply because you survived. Psychologically there are obviously dangers, but I'm more focused on real dangers to the body. A part of me wants to go back and explore this substance on a deeper level. There is some calling to try this again, or 5meo-MALT or DiPT if those are somehow safer. But this has freaked me the fuck out and I can't help but make this post. In Leo's video introduction of 5meo, he recommends snorting about 20mgs of 5meo for your first experience. I can't help but feel that this is incredibly dangerous, especially for a "normie" who might stumble across his video. Here is a link to the health problems reported from people on Erowid: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_5MeODMT_Health_Problems.shtml Seizure and convulsions from insufflation (15-25mg doses), Blacking out, flailing limbs, falling, Short term breathing problems during the experience, Long term breathing problems, Memory loss- short-term and long-term (think alzheimer's), Cardiovascular effects ( rapid heartbeat, slow heart beat, heart palpitations), Muscle spasms, Nausea are all reported. I will say most of these reports are from incorrect dosages or mixing with other drugs. DO NOT TAKE 5MEO WITH AN MAOI! DO NOT DO 5meo IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD PROPER SLEEP! There have been reported deaths from 5meo. Most people explain these away by saying it was in combination with other stuff, like ibogaine and MAOI's. Does anyone have an idea of the total number of deaths associated with this drug? There is at least one user on reddit I saw who claimed he died (for real) on 5meo. His heart stopped and he was resuscitated. I worry that there are many more associated deaths with 5meo that we simply are not aware of, and many more incidences of cardiac arrest and seizures that we aren't aware of. I don't know if there are other deaths going unreported? It seems very possible. When someone dies from a drug OD, do they always autopsy? This is a genuine question. I don't know why it feels like most people think this drug is generally safe. They preface this by saying "If you don't have heart problems or epilepsy you will be fine." But do you really know how healthy you are? Do you know if you have a heart complication? I understand that most people understand the risks but I can't help but feel like it is downplayed a lot, when we really don't know how dangerous this stuff would be if it were more popular, if there were more clinical studies, how many people would be admitted for seizures or cardiac arrest, how many people would be dead. If you search online, it's almost all positives of this drug, cures depression, anxiety, PTSD, alcoholism, etc. I feel like some of these sites or publications are biased, present all the studies showing the benefits of the drug, without mentioning potential death/danger. This that what worries me about Leo: -Leo has also said things like "You can't throw up when you haven't eaten anything for 4 hours in advance" seemingly trying to convince people not to worry about doing 5meo alone. But others here have claimed that they didn't eat in advance, and still ended up throwing up. This is concerning to suggest people are generally safe to do this drug alone without a facilitator if they don't eat in advance. -There is a video somewhere of Leo talking about doing 5meo while in his bathtub (incredibly dangerous behavior and irresponsible). -Leo did 5meo-DMT every day for 30 days (that's his choice but people look up to him and replicate his actions. To many people he is their spiritual guru) -Leo has health problems he is not disclosing to his audience after a long history with this substance. He has not discussed whether his health problems have anything to do with his 5meo use or drug use. If it is regarding his drug use he needs to disclose more information as he has many people following him thinking 5meo is safe. ---------------------------------------------------------- Random links: This article lists the effects of 5meo dmt, on sheep, cats, mice, and monkeys. Effects include lethal effects- staggers, ataxia, mydriasis, head nodding, sham rage, stringy salivation, tremors, convulsions, hypothermia, tachycardia, and respitory failure. It's safe to assume all these symptoms are possible for humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028383/ Seizure after 10mg dose- https://www.reddit.com/r/5MeODMT/comments/owsol7/looking_for_insight_on_first_5meo_experience/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Neurological Damage/Epilepsy- https://www.reddit.com/r/5MeODMT/comments/s2e6o6/can_5meodmt_cause_neurological_damage_or_epilepsy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (This person claims 5meo is a poison, and caused neurological damage and epilepsy. He is wrong about the poison thing. I don't really believe his claims but don't want to dismiss his xperience either) Death from 5meo-DMT: https://academic.oup.com/jat/article-abstract/29/8/838/716730?redirectedFrom=PDF Death from 5meo-DiPT: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7366431_A_fatal_poisoning_with_5-methoxy-NN-diisopropyltryptamine_Foxy Rhabdomyolysis After Ingestion of 5meo-DiPT: https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)61905-8/fulltext Here's an article going in depth on Octavius Rettig, a gentleman responsible for deaths related to 5meo (he's a total psychopath). Be incredibly careful with facilitators who claim to know what they are doing. You may be going to a facilitator charging you thousands of dollars who could overdose you. They may not even know CPR. They could ruin your entire life: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/the-pied-piper-of-psychedelic-toads Dangers Of Excessive 5-MeO-DMT and How to Protect Yourself and Loved Ones From Harm | Chad Charles- Here is that same podcast criticizing Leo and his irresponsible approach. They mention a friend that died from doing 5meo- Any more useful links? ---------------------------------------------------------- I am trying to address this without fear-mongering. If it wasn't for this intuition I would just think 5meo is generally safe. But any drug that is playing with your heart, giving you difficulty breathing, and induces seizures is NOT SAFE! Does anyone have an idea of how many people have died from 5meo-DMT? I heard somewhere between 10-15 reported deaths. It seems incredibly difficult to get an accurate number. If I changed ROA would it be less intense and safer on the body? I thought this, and considered boofing or snorting, until I read puporing's report after boofing, and the report of the seizure after a 10mg insufflated dose. I am not a doctor or scientist. I am just some dude that likes psychedelics, so don't jump down my throat. But I feel completely insane when I see people talking about doing 5meo the way they do. Doing it very regularly at high doses or mixing with other drugs. Or doing it alone. People also like combining 5meo with MDMA. Seems incredibly dangerous. 5meo is addressed so casually here on this forum. I feel like we should stop acting like this is some magic drug for enlightenment that is "generally safe". I can't help but feel like this sentiment comes with a large amount of hubris. Most other psychedelics are safer than 5meo. I have experienced ego death on mushrooms and regular n,n-DMT. People sell 5meo as a magical "enlightenment drug" that will surely help your life and awaken you for good. This is not even true. I worry very strongly for the safety surrounding 5meo as this gets popular. P.S. I don't want to give Leo too hard of a time and had to edit to give Leo some love. Responsibility falls on the user, and Leo is navigating uncharted territory a lot of the time with these substances. He is a huge advocate for psychedelics, and he does an amazing job parsing this stuff. His intention is not to lead you into danger. It is your responsibility to be safe and have a proper foundation yourself. And if Leo is doing this drug alone, it is because he is particularly familiar with the drug. So as a listener or follower of Leo, don't just follow in Leo's footsteps, listen to your body and make sure you are doing it safely. You have to start at incredibly low doses and work up to a bigger dose. Get a mg scale, don't mix compounds, no MAOI's, and have a facilitator.

That’s a straw man. Anyone can conceive of much worse fates. But suffering is a spectrum and that happens to be the worst I’ve got going on right now. It’s worse because it’s chronic and ruthless, unlike temporarily feeling hurt by some douchebag player who promised a relationship only to use you for a night.. Not only that but the game is rigged against us in such a way that we’re automatically assumed to be a threat until proven otherwise. Then there’s the valid worry of making one wrong move when it comes to physical escalation because it can cause legal consequences, pickup is supposed to be an act of flirting with women, not with sexual harassment lawsuits. When mistakes do cause us big trouble, we get fully blamed and told to improve instead of any attention getting placed on the sexist system itself. The issue goes far deeper than just not getting laid. No. Nothing at all. Same with everyone. What we call our “self” is just an outer projection of what we think we are, such as thoughts, feelings, preferences etc. But at the deepest level we’re nothingness, right? That’s what everyone who masters meditation says

The chicken, the road, and the crossing are all imaginary manifestations within infinite consciousness. There is no separate chicken, no actual road, and no real crossing - just consciousness imagining itself as this entire scenario. Leo Gura's Ontology: The Chicken Crossing the Road According to Leo Gura's perspective on reality, we could interpret the chicken crossing the road scenario as follows: 1. Everything is Consciousness: The chicken, the road, the act of crossing, and even the concept of "crossing" are all manifestations of consciousness. They are not separate physical entities but aspects of a unified, infinite consciousness. 2. Reality as Imagination: The entire scenario is imaginary. Not just in the sense of being a thought experiment, but in the deeper sense that all of reality, including what we perceive as physical, is an act of imagination by infinite consciousness. 3. No Separate Self: The chicken doesn't have a separate self that decides to cross the road. The chicken, as we conceive it, is part of the imagination of infinite consciousness. 4. Illusory Nature of Time and Space: The road, representing space, and the act of crossing, representing time, are both illusions created by consciousness. There is no actual movement happening, as everything exists within timeless, spaceless consciousness. 5. Radical Non-Dualit*: There is no real distinction between the chicken and the road. The apparent separation is part of the imaginary scenario created by consciousness. 6. Emptiness as the Ground of Being: The chicken and the road are manifestations appearing in the "emptiness" or "nothingness" of pure consciousness, much like images projected on a blank screen. 7. Infinite Possibilities: The chicken could potentially do anything, not just cross the road, because within infinite imagination, all possibilities exist simultaneously. 8. The Unborn and Undying Nature: The chicken was never really "born" and doesn't really "die". These are just concepts within the greater imagination of consciousness. In this view, asking "Why did the chicken cross the road?" is based on several misunderstandings: 1. That there is a separate chicken 2. That there is a separate road 3. That there is an act of crossing 4. That there is a "why" or reason within ultimate reality Instead, we might say: The chicken crossing the road is one of infinite scenarios being imagined by consciousness, which is what you truly are. You are not observing a chicken crossing a road; you are the infinite consciousness imagining itself as a chicken, a road, and the act of crossing, all simultaneously. This perspective radically challenges our conventional understanding of reality and identity, suggesting that the humor in the chicken joke arises from our misunderstanding of the true nature of reality. -- * Edit: Because the AI made a distinction between real and imaginary I emphasized that there is no distinction and this is what it gave: The chicken, the road, and the crossing are consciousness. The distinction between real and imaginary dissolves - all is equally real and equally imaginary within infinite consciousness exploring itself.

😂 lol. Well..everything is literally liberation..everything is absolute perfection and it will never be anything else. But does that mean that from the perspective of a human everything is equal ? Hell no . Yes you can spend your whole life going to the pub and fucking bitches and sniffing Cocaine etc but that's only gonna create negative karma and when you die you will be pulled back into a new body via reincarnation. And there is never gonna be an end to suffering for you. You will probably say it doesn't matter either ..but in fact it does matter to you as a human . If you are in god-mode 24/7 high on nothingness then you can speak of everything being already liberation 👍.

Jung didn't understand what is happening here. He uncovered that we have a shadow, but he didn't understand that the whole human mind is a shadow. The good part of the human mind is a mask the shadow puts on, not the other way around. He also didn't understand that it's unreal, a figment of the imagination, a shadowy identity, made out of nothing and doomed to return to nothingness. You can analyze the ego for all of your life and you will find infinite quirks, because it was born out of error and doesn't have a source. It's a bastard child.

It’s impossible to desribe a formless experience outside of all experience. Cessation as a word is accurate. Talking more about it would just remove us further from that non-experience. Cessation is a dead-end anyway. It’s a trap Buddha fell into and all those who follow his path. It’s just an “experience” of nothingness. Sure it feels like the mind and all the universe reset - so what? You will have to reincarnate again with this level of atainment. clowns like Frank Yang, Shinzen, Spira and most other teachers reach it and then preach it as enlightenment. Lol. read ACIM and start to learn true wisdom what enlightenment is. All other teachers are the messengers sent by the ego and will lead you only to death, a thousandth time.

Anger? Compassion! Sadness? Empathy! Supine? Calmness! Fear? Caution! Disgust? Relation! Anxiety? Faith! Embarrassment? Humbleness! Love? Detachment! Detachment? Love! Confusion? Openness! Falsehood? Honesty! Fakeness? Authenticity! Masquerade? Playfulness! ADHD? Breath! Autism? Awareness! Bipolar? Integration MPD? Harmony! Spiral Dynamics: Beige? Community! Purple? Confidence! Red? Faith! Blue? Freedom! Orange? Awareness! Green? Effectiveness! Yellow? Holism! Turquoise? Peace! Paradox? Transcendence! Limitation? Dissolution! Matter? Mind! Mind? MIND! Duality? Non-Duality! Non-Duality? Duality! Trinity? Unity? Infinity? Nothingness? Infinity! Infinity? Nothingness! God? _! _? God! God? God! God God | GodGod | Goddog | Godog | GooG | GG | | God | God Integrate the opposite, transcend and include, raise awareness, I am a robot, now I became conscious of that, what's the next stage? Experiential integration and harmony!

Is the part of the worldwide game they live in, there are complex causation chains that create that particular vortex and lets not assume we can ever know all the threads of events that took and take to that situation maintain itself as I is. In maybe 400 years from now all that an many other aberations of human nature will vanish. Do you remember the dark ages in England? People cutting each other heads and dirty cities? Jack the Striper?Dark Alleys? No, none of us will ever see even if that lifes were so dark as history paint it. So, this is what will happen with all that suffering life stories, vanish into nothingness, like a bad dream you have at nigth.

@Zeroguy Very good! Altough i would say, More than nothingness tricking us, is just that we trick ourselves. 😊 But dont worry, There is indeed a clarity to arrive.

God is Infinite Love amongst other infinite things.I experienced God/Infinite Love but I died from experience now I transcended all facets of awakening by realising it's just product of Nothingness.Nothignrss tricks us into becoming all these things and creates intense euphoria just so that we keep getting invested in dreaming forever.

nothingness

It literally does come from a vacuum. Reality manifests it's infinite expressions through extracting it from nothingness (which is pure infinity). This is the only way you can explain higher complexity and novel information generation as demonstrated by evolution and the human mind. Now, novel information is of course necessarily contextualized within the given system in which it expresses itself. Given a physical system, any form of complexity naturally will be physical. But that does not mean that novel information was not created. Each limited set of existence contains a near infinite amount of possible configurations. How to arrive at particular complexities is achieved through interfacing with nothingness through free will. To ask something like "Can you create something truly outside of this world?" would be like asking if you can find a physical expression which is not physical. The question makes no sense and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the nature of infinity and creation.

@Dodo In my eyes crypto is bullshit. You’re not creating value in the world just making bets on artificial nothingness I would extend that to stock trading more generally which is mostly bs too. I have a very low approval of the whole trading game. It’s all bullshit. Share prices are at an all time high and it has nothing to do with the actual real world economy but the people fawn over it

I was smoking weed.I experienced cessation with Infinite Love.Then I experienced complete cessation and realised Infinite Love is product of cessation state.When this dreams ends I will experience Infinite Love and new dream will appear.I am nothingness before all facets .I was a bit sad but I am ok now with cessation.

It's a nothingness that is no-thing.

If nothingness produces something, then it's not nothingness

I realised Infinite Love is just product of this nothingness to keep me dream again.There is no more fear of experiencing nothingness now.

Niroda-style cessations going blank from concentrative meditation in the waking state and then "rebooting": No. I didn't push the concentrative path/Jhanas path much, Mahamudra & Dzogchen -practice is different. On that path, these states don't need to happen, nor are they considered that important as in Theravada. I have experienced the causal states from the states & transitions during the sleep cycle. "Seeing" the rotation of waking/sleep/dream, the causal states that can show along that rotation, lucid dreams, and also the "Reality" of deep sleep. Which is exactly what is supposed to happen according to the tradition when Awareness has become strong/trained enough in the waking state that it continues in some forms into the sleep-phase, and stays during the state-changes in sleep/dream/waking which then "roll by" "before" ones True eternal unchanging Infinite Being. As a sidenote: In the Mahamudra-system there is the so called Nondissolution-Experience that opens up the boundless and eternal/timeless/always here/impersonal nature of Infinite Mind/Infinite Being and how everything emerges from "THAT", including all thought/feeling-arisings, which arise in an impersonal clockwork-like process ripening/arising from the groundless ground of Being, emerging fully formed and then being elaborated as a second step so slowly that one wonders at some point how that could have hypnotized earlier. And how time is constructed. Which I experienced as predicted in this system at the point where its supposed to happen. Which is a very valueable experience, since it shows how the separate-self, time, basically everything is constructed and emerging. Not only when "rebooting" from cessation, but in real/daily life. And that then gets stabilized with further practice. Brown, PotgW: "Though comparable in profundity to the Theravada dissolution experience, the Mahayana experience of nondissolution or unelaboration is very different, both experientially and philosophically, which is why the commentators are careful to refute the nihilistic dissolution position" "Once the practitioner gets some sense of emptiness (mere appearance,WbtR) pervading the interconnectedness of all times and realms, it becomes easier to persist with a continuous focus on emptiness when leaving the samadhi state and reentering ordinary daily experience.'" I assume that if I trained for some time in hardcore concentrative meditation that cessation-states become accessible in the waking state. I know the techniques that have to be practiced to achieve that. Yet, there seems to be a genetic/karmic/whatever factor if the long form of cessations is accessible (Niroda) or not. But I don't need these states since I have accessed the experiences/states and insights they give from other ways, as described above. And I don't need concentrative meditation to keep/access Infinite Nondual Being. Jhanas 1-7 are given anyways at that point, since its hard to "get" Infinite Space or Infinite Consciousness or Nothingness when that is already the case before any meditation during daily life. Jhana 8 (neither perception nor non-perception) / 9 (Cessation and/or Niroda) need "induction" via concentrative meditation.

Mostly. There are different versions of what Wilber calls Causal States. Cessation/Nirodha: Totally appearanceless "film-break" like cessation. Timeless/always here/Nothingness nature emphasized. Time needs appearance/objects/"movement"/change, no appearance/objects is timeless/always here. These states also clearly show that if nothing arises there is no self-consciousness. ( https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=pistol&author=Water by the River , thx Benthino for the water pistol). Pure Infinite Awareness/Being with the potential of sentience, but not self-consciousness. That comes later. Which is pretty much a shocker, since it shows that any form of self-consciousness ego/separate-self is a) arising/appearing b) temporary c) True YOU is always "there", existence itself. Even if nothing arises/appears. That empties out the remnants of the separate-self/ego as appearing/constructed and removes the remaining separate-self-identity pretty effectively when coming out of cessation. Nirodha is the big/longer brother of cessation. Causal states with awareness (Infinite (timeless) Darkness suffused with light): Then there are causal states that are infinite/timeless, but self-aware. For example what Tibetan called the Clear Light state (Tummo, Bardo, Near Death). For example something a Neurologist (who had an NDE) for example described as "Infinite Darkness suffused with light". These states can also be experienced passing from dreaming to causal states to dreaming to waking up. One can have these states also with psychedelics, see Chris Bache Diamonds from Heaven. Aware Deep Sleep: Then there is Deep Sleep as not loosing awareness (and hence timeless, no duration experienced) as described by Thisdell, above. Causal States eyes open. And then you have totally empty impersonal states with no separate self arising WHILE the visual field appears. These are also linked by some to Nirvikalpa since there is no separate-ego-anything left, its the totally impersonal Totality/Reality arising by Itself. That is why Ken Wilber called the total empty/flat-lining state (EEG) some kind of Nirvikalpa "eyes-open". These are the true nondual IMPERSONAL states of Enlightenment. Only when having passed these causal states is it truly nondual impersonal Enlightenment/Infinite Impersonal Being. Before that, it is a Unity with the Infinite Nondual Field, and the character/ego hijacking that experience and interpreting it. Very common with certain substances, and easily confused with the final outcome of the total transcendence of the ego/separate-self purified by the experience of these totally empty states (hey, "I" wasn't there, what am I really? For sure not that temporarily appearing character-gig, because that wasn't there. And what I really am has to be the case always, even if there is no self-consciousness or consciousness OF anything at all, aka cessation or deep unaware sleep. That paves the way to true impersonal Enlightenment, realizing ones identity truly is this Infinite Nothingness which can never be any arising/appearance at all. The Infinite Absolute Being/Reality beyond any expierence/arising, timeless and eternal). And the Awareness of that Infinite Reality/Being can also be kept alive if the character reappears, the EEG shows something again. But then, this character/personality has a similiar status as for example your car: It appears in your Infinite Being/visual field, you look "out from it" while driving, but most definitely you are not (only) your car, but the whole appearing show/Infinite Being/Infinite Existing, the screen and the appearing show. Wilber Nirvikalpa eyes open/eyes closed: But the term Nirvikalpa has been used for millenia, so you can for sure find cases where its used for cessation/Nirodha and eyes open causal impersonal states, deep sleep, and anything in between. What is more important is what these causal states really can do: Kill the ego/separate-self-arising-illusions for good, because they show that these are temporary arising illusion-clouds, nothing more. Not by having these a few times, aber after experiencing them often and coming out of them and seeing the ego reassemble itself in real-time often enough can even get the hardest ego-illusions to wonder about their "reality". See below. When training via concentration meditation, it is easier to reach Cessation than reaching True Nondual Enlightenment while the visual field still appears. Because the mechanism of the ego-cloud-separation-arisings is not yet fully transcended. The mere appearance character, the Infinite impersonal field, the eternal/timeless background-nature of True Being is not yet reached while the visual field is there/daily life. That comes later. Later developed forms of Buddhism (Zen, Mahayana, Tibetan Buddhism, aka Mahamudra/Dzogchen) directly aim for the Nondual Realization. They know cessation states and achieve them, but don't value these as ultimate goal. Which makes sense, because if one can enter Nirvana/Nirvikalpha on command, its nice then, and later on the still well and alive ego and its cycles of contraction/suffering kill all the oh so nice Nirvana again. But shutting the whole enchilada including the ego down in causal states is a very good tool. Not necessary, but very useful. These statements are in line with the statements and experiences of modern Theravada-teachers and realizers like Ingram, Yang, Burbea, Taft, Thisdell and so on. And that is why I prefer Mahamudra/Dzogchen (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). More on that below in the footnote 1. The relations of these states get clear once the timless Absolute Reality/Being is intuited as always here. Deep Sleep is so to say is always right here. Since what you really are is always right here, as it is in deep sleep. Infinite eternal Consciousness/Being which is totally empty and impersonal if no separate-self illusion arises. The tree watching itself, fully aware of its temporaray/passing/illusory nature. And that which is always the case, eternally so, True Being, fully understands itself then. Because there exists nothing else that could understand itself besides THIS of which nothing can be said, only pointed towards. So what is it that reads these words right here, right now? What is IT/You truly? Starting out to write a short answer answer, ending up with a Filibustero. Oh well, maybe its helpful for some. Selling Causal States as the final coup de grace for the separate self-character-gig/ego by The River Ok, it had to be coming: WtbtR now with footnotes. Guess not for the faint of hearted. Footnote 1: The original "Buddhas" Enlightenment-doctrine was Cessation/Causal-based, not Full Nondual (impersonal) Enlightenment in daily life. The original Buddhas Enlightenment was Cessation/Causal-based (Nirvana-based, "Nirvana separate from Samsara"). Which is still a conditioned state, bringing a lot of liberation from grasping, but not fully and in daily life. Separate-Self/Ego not fully transcended/dead in daily life. The breakthrough to True (impersonal) Nondual Realization in official doctrine came later with Nagarjuna and Madhymaka/Middle Path: True Nondual impersonal Enlightenment which could be sustained in daily life/with visual field. And while Madhyamaka tended to not say anything at all about the Absolute (neti neti, no concepts can be applied for the Absolute, which technically is correct), later forms of Buddhisms like Yogachara said that (in truly enlightened impersonal nondual states) Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Being IS an expression of the true state of things, and everything appearing is mere appearance (or "imagined"). See for example "Consciousness only school", for example Huang Po's Universal Mind, or the (very humble) Supreme Source "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe". God-Realization (TM) approved. Forms of Buddhism stemming from the original buddhist teachings (causal teachings, sometimes called Hinayana school, which doesn't exist anymore), like for example Theravada/Thai Buddhism Forest Tradition (and Ingram/Yang/Burbea/Taft) mainly trace themselves from these forms (although all are adding some form of Dzogchen and similiar stuff), don't stem from the the Mahayana Revolution of Middle Way/Madhyamaka/Nagarjuna), and YET end up at Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation. And for sure in the original Buddhism some realized Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation, but that didn't find its way into the official doctrine until much later. And that (besides that the original Buddha probably didn't exist because its the same story Jainism tells about its founder) makes me smile when there "Buddhism"-trashing. Its like trashing "religion". Which kind of religion? Polytheism? Ancestor-cult? Monotheism? Polytheism? Who cares, lets trash the rodents... So, now WbtR made it: Neither "Buddhist" like him anymore, nor the no-rodent crowd. Guess its "Viel Feind, viel Ehr!". Something we Germans are quite talented in. Oh well...

https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/let-s-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/throwing-my-hat-in-the-jhana-ring and some more stuff from Roger Thisdell: https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/centrelessness-boundarylessness-phenomenology-and-freedom-from-the-cage-of-the-mind https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/maintaining-awareness-during-deep-sleep-how-to and: Cessation is a large focus of Theravada/Early Buddhism, helping on the path to Enligthenment. But it is not (yet) Full Enlightenment, see for example modern voices of Theravada like Ingram (Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha)/Frank Yang/Thisdell.They state the same. In Mahayana Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism/Vajrayana, this dissolution/cessation experience is considered valueable, but not more. Not the final goal. Experiencing Absolute Reality/Infinite Impersonal Being WHILE visual appearances and the mindstream arises as Infinite Impersonal Being/Reality is considered the Final Enlightenment. Because Ultimate Reality has to be constant, always right here. If its not accessible, clouds of separation are still arising which are not seen through. Cessation= Absolute Reality with no arising/appearance/anything at all, hence timeless, but also not self-consciousness (since that is an arising too). Helps seeing the illusion/separation-layers arising on the "reboot" while getting out of the cessation/Pure Nothingness, but does not necessarily destroy all the clouds causing duality. Normally it doesn't do that, that is why it takes lots of cessations on the Theravada path. No cessations are necessary for Enlightenment, it can also happen without them. In Mahamudra, instead of the Dissolution experience of cessation, the so-called "Non-dissolution" experience, or the insight the Infinite Mind/Being is timeless/eternal and boundless (but not yet fully impersonal) is considered of equal or even higher importance. Since that paves the way for the constant realization of Infinite Impersonal Being/Reality while the visual field arises, or Full Enlightenment. It is a difficult topic, needing a lot of reference meditation-experiences in order to start to intuit the differences. Maybe this is helpful for some.

Imagine you're the surface of the ocean, from outside the ocean, one can observe waves, but from the perspective of the ocean, there is only one surface, no matter the local shape, from the absolute point of view, it's perfectly level. It's kinda strange, cause the surface of a sphere is really level from its own point of view and dimension, it takes a whole other dimension to loop it around and see a distortion. All this to say, when you are everything and everyone and your ego also, you are not alone, even though you're a singular thing overall, but nothingness has no room for judgements and infinity has room for all contradictory judgements simultaneously rendering them arbitrary. Now on another layer, you might imply that you're the singular source of your experience, that you are an entity who creates others but is itself objective, but that doesn't really make sense since you are a creation of yourself also, including the distinction, including your mental ideas, including the notion of individuality and collective, to even say you are 1 is really an arbitrary focus since you are 0 and ∞ also, you are whole. And as long as you believe yourself to be an absolute entity simulating reality, you hold that distinction, but its an arbitrary one, you dissolved the notion of others but not that of self, now you believe that there are others and simultaneously that they don't exist, but if you actually believed there were no others, then you couldn't access that as a concept to feel lonely through.