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@Brandman This is why I am a New Age Christian. It's even better than Islam. In Islam you will only ever be a slave to Allah according to the koran. I can find the verse if you like. At least with Christianity you get to be a son or daughter of God (God being a guide or an angel). You also get to contend with God (e.g. the Angels). Angels like seeing the fire of life in your soul, in your thoughts and actions. If you stumble you get to change their minds if you turn to the truth and turn you life around. And God (angels) consider you a son or daughter if you follow the path. And this is why Leo is wrong. He assumes that our growth as a world will always be about the same as what we have always known. But what he hasn't realized is that technological advances that will be discovered eventually through the merging of science and spirituality will eventually allow us to transform our spirit bodies so we don't have to reincarnate again. Regular spirits are yin energy, angels are yang energy, so we have a long way to go but it's totally possible to overcome and never have to reincarnate again. BTW Jesus did believe in reincarnation. I can prove that as well from the Bible. That is why the Bible says - Revelation 3:12 (NIV): This is Jesus speaking. "The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name." BTW I think the new Jerusalem is just a metaphor for a new age where science and technology will merge. And the new name is just symbolic of the transformation that you go through becoming the very elect. Elect by who? I think it's a network of beings that work tirelessly to help all life merge back with heaven. So when Jesus says my God he's just talking about his angel friends that are helping him evolve. Given all that Jesus is talking about being victorious through many lifetimes. But we are already in the top .00000000000000001 Googleplex percent of life on our spiritual journey back to source compared to most life forms. I think Leo needs to study the near death experiences, and astral projections that involve high level beings, guides, angels if you will. Especially with the ones with Jesus as he is the main guide that has been set in charge of helping earth enter a new age. The Bible is an obvious great source as well. I just know that it's got a bad wrap for many. You will never find a source you agree with 100 percent of the time.

Articles on twin sisters Gillian and Jennifer Pollock, whose family were convinced were the reincarnation of tragic siblings Joanna and Jacqueline who had died in a car crash a year back. Dr. Ian Stevenson studied the case and included it in his book titled “Children Who Remember Previous Lives: A Question of Reincarnation.” It was his research into 14 different cases involving reincarnation of children. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/twin-sisters-who-family-were-27568945 https://www.newsbreak.com/nik-1590556/2837260208621

Why are you so sure about reincarnation? And also how do you know this? If you are so sure about it then you already have your answers: being a human is a waste of time

I am not sure if I can do philosophical, just practical. As i've been in that place many times, more so in my earlier years, I'll share a few thoughts. I'll start with why someone might choose it and hopefully do so tactfully so the mods don't have to close this. As I've commented I've experienced emotional pain to the level of a broken rib, as if it were all over the body. I've had more physical pain than a broken rib, so I know more pain exists but if you were to want a scale. If you imagine the pain of breaking a rib, and then have that like a wave over you for a day, a week, or more. I am sure perhaps others have been in worse shape than me; I'm still here after all. So now picture that broken rib is either being avoided, shamed, run from, fought against, whatever and it's generating a lot of chaos, and resistance in your life. Sometimes it's all you can think about, multiple states come up that cause you to suffer most of the day, and this is for someone who is functioning, let alone someone who is bed or chair-bound. If you don't reach acceptance in life: Does the gamble become more attractive? Yes, it does. After the fallout of decades of that, or years of it it takes a toll on the body/mind/life, does that help you understand? I've saved this next bit so it can be ignored depending on experiences: Part of me wants to comment on reincarnation, past lives, and cycles that repeat. There is no guarantee that you will pick a better outcome next time if you've got unresolved issues in your life this time. As you are everything, the pain, suffering, denial, shame etc, that's still you, and running away from it won't help live in (not just with but in) that part of yourself. That requires an understanding or experience of past lives to accept, and also a lot of courage to face and heal and accept. It also benefits from a method such as the completion process, and preferably understanding that the emotional pain is causing physical symptoms on the body both directly or indirectly.

Bye guys, i cant take being here anymore. Leo's vibe and stances as a teacher are just too harsh for me. What he said in the monkey torture video thread was the last straw; the fact that you simply have to accept that you will go through all kinds of torture for eternity just for the sake of it, its simply unnacceptable to me that this is the best idea that God has and that reality is this way. Theres no rhyme or reason about it. Im already suicidal and if there is no consequence to my action in the eternal sense, which is the case if there is just infinite reincarnation, there is absolutely no reason not to kill myself right now, maybe there will be some karma but that means absolutely nothing if you will just be reincarnating forever as everything imaginable anyway. Basic personal development is also pretty much over for me due to health issues, i cant date or socialize for the most part, which is the biggest driver of my nihilism and suicidal ideation. I simply can't fathom the fact i have to suffer all this bullshit for absolutely no reason, if there is infinite reincarnation there is absolutely no meaning to any of your suffering or anything at all, including any awakening, since you are bound to fall asleep again, also there is an infinite depth to awakening that can never be reached, I mean Leo claimed to have had the deepest awakening 5 years ago, which he now dismisses as "human", even though he claimed in that awakening he transcended all notions of being human etc. Why should we believe this alien stuff is the final station now? It made me realize i fell into the trap of believing his stuff, when , it is all super contradictiory, another example of this is that in the 30 day 5meo video he said that in his final days of tripping he discovered a "2nd dimension" of awakening, what is that even supposed to mean, he never even mentioned it after that video, when you would think such a thing would be absolutely massive in consequence to metaphysics. It all just feels very snake oily looking back on it. Hence I will soon be converting to Islam, it makes the most sense to adapt that worldview, precisely because as humans we know nothing, but realize the infinite potential of reality and the eternity of the soul, if you only know those things Islam makes the most sense imo, it also makes sense of the suffering since this life is seen as a test, to eventually potentially make you reach infinite liberation and redemption of your manhood. I can also place my fear of hell in the worldview and work with it, it just feels natural to me. Im still blessed to be priviliged to be in university and have a great chance of getting a remote job that i can work with my health conditions, so i can probably get some nice income and move somewhere where theres a sufi order and live the sufi life, give most of my income to the poor and just live a life of worship and meditations. Its better than going fully hermit and fits my new conclusions about metaphysics and religion. Thanks Leo first and foremost, for all the amazing content, i would never have this respect and amazement for reality and life where it not for you. It seems you dont really care for my takes on this forum but that is okay. May your health issues and suffering ease. When my issues were starting in 2022 Leo was even so kind to gift the life purpose course to me. Harsh as he is, Leo is an extremely generous soul and he wishes the best for everyone. That is why when the new course will come out, I will pay for one course for one of you who cant afford it. When its time, PM me and i will do a raffle and pay for one. Ill log back in when its out to do this raffle. Thanks all the other ppl on this forum, Osaid, Princess Arabia, Emerald, Someone Here, Nilsi, Docwatts, and so many cool others here, this forum truly is a place like no other. Godspeed to all of you. i have enjoyed and learned so much from seeing yall speak and grow. Im sorry for my wacky and sometimes resentful posts in the past, if i posted something wacky it was mostly as a reaction to my own ego because i was so frustrated that i was no longer able to fulfill my egoic desires due to my issues. I hereby request @Osaid and confirm to have all my prior posts hidden except this one. I will end my journey here by sharing my favorite videos of Leo, one metaphysical and one about life. An absolute classic, that forms the basis of all spirituality and consciousness work, and is absolutely necessary to begin working towards any kind of truth. An amazing exposition of our conditioned mind and assumptions, and all other metaphysics are to be derived from this realization. My favorite video, the way Leo pulls out from you, your hidden and inner wonder for life, and reveals the wonders of life, how much is possible, how magical life and reality really is, i cant really describe whats so good about this video. It reveals to you the numbed , boring and fearful conditioning that you have lived with your whole life, the fact you know and knew nothing, and pulls it all together in an extremely practical video for all to see. This vid made me feel like this world is home, that zelda feeling like there truly is magic in the world. With this, i say you all goodbye. Godspeed.

From the absolute perspective, yes. Yes there is nowhere to go. However, you could describe a place you are sitting or standing right now. So what we are talking about is the illusion of reincarnation, into the illusion of a human life. I understand this, but both of us chose it this time around Do you think it's horrible because it's so far out of alignment with the norm?

If you become aware that spirituality is just a strategy for your avatar to gain/keep power (a persona) you understand there is no need for that in the absolute, because there is nowhere to go. Turquoise reincarnation can be horrible, actually.

"I Have Lived Before": The True Story of the Reincarnation of Shanti Devi. This is the first known book on reincarnation based on the recollections of a little girl named Shanti Devi (1926-1987) in Delhi, India, who claimed to remember a past life as a wife and mother in a different region of India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanti_Devi https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2016/12/STE1.pdf Shanti Devi persistently pleaded to her parents to let her go to the region mentioned (Mathura) and once even ran away from home at age of six to reach Mathura. When Mahatma Gandhi heard about the case he set up a commission of 15 prominent people, including parliamentarians, national leaders, and members from the media, to study the case. He also invited Shanti Devi to his ashram. The committee was instrumental in persuading her reluctant parents to allow Shanti Devi to go to Mathura with them. Upon reaching the place she was able to remember minute details of the place and her past life family, though she was seeing the place for the first time in her young life. A brief article on her life by Dr. K.S. Rawat can be found in this below link. https://www.carolbowman.com/dr-ian-stevenson/case-shanti-devi/ Sture Lonnerstrand, a Swedish critic, came all the way from Sweden to expose the “fake,” as he thought it to be, but after investigation wrote, “This is the only fully explained and proven case of reincarnation there has been." A book about her was published by Sture Lonnerstrand in 1994, and the english translation appeared in 1998 titled, "I Have Lived Before: The True Story of the Reincarnation of Shanti Devi". She was also interviewed by Dr. Ian Stevenson who stated, “I also interviewed Shanti Devi, her father, and other pertinent witnesses, including Kedarnath, the husband claimed in her previous life. My research indicates that she made at least 24 statements of her memories that matched the verified facts.”

Body and Mind can end, the cycle of reincarnation can end, the karmic cycle can end, what You really are cannot end because it always was, this dual body/mind complex game we play here on earth will end!

Thanks for the answers. All there is is a blank space, and we fill it. There is no end because there was no start. There is nothing, just what you put there. We can put a life there, and we have done several billion times right now. If anything, we are overcrowded! You are alive right now, what are you gonna do? Keep surviving. Keep learning. Keep growing. Fail a lot, Keep going. What I usually do. How do I know reincarnation is true? Teachings of Adepts, personal experience and ultimately asking the larger me. How do I know I'll be a human in the next one? I'm probably not going to be. That's why I've decided before now and why i've generated these replies. There is a small part of me still wondering. Does Turquoise exist? Is it a valid model? Is it something I want? Why waiting for it? I find the model useful when paired with an emotional scale also. We are what we are in the moment. I can't make you a millionaire, happily married, or enlightened by clicking my fingers. It's a process. It's obvious you're constructing a castle out of thin air. Get to your roots and foundation, question yourself Everything is a castle in the air. While I appreciate your questions. You are showing me your own resistance here. Question your own bias as to how anything is 'obvious' about a reflection of yourself that you also generated to interact with. Do you think you have a habit of attracting obvious conversations or interactions? If so why? Questions answer and shape the outcome of reality. I have some, but its like a dab of watercolor on a painting, I usually default to yellow. When I am around collectives who are spiritual, yes, because it becomes a collective experience more easily. Thank you for helping me answer my question that makes sense.

If there is no where, how would you even born, birth is imagined in first place, so forget about reincarnation, live this so called life with love till end. Because, there will be no more. This is the end.

No Forget about tomorrow, next birth or whatever You are alive right now, what are you gonna do? Challenge your assumptions: How do I know reincarnation is true? How do I know I'll be a human in the next one? Does Turquoise exist? Is it a valid model? Is it something I want? Why waiting for it? It's obvious you're constructing a castle out of thin air. Get to your roots and foundation, question yourself

There is no reincarnation, you will go back where you come from.

What would be three preferred ways for you to design or structure a stage turquoise reincarnation in your next life, if that was your main goal?

With everyone's blessings and guidance, I would like to create a thread dedicated to showcasing articles and books on reincarnation/rebirth case studies so that people can judge for themselves whether reincarnation has a basis in fact or not. In India I have come across a couple of reincarnation case studies in newspapers and acquaintances, which helped to keep an interest in this subject. After accessing the internet, I found to my surprise that there are similar cases in the West even though there are no teachings of reincarnation in its dominant religions and belief systems. Here is an insightful article about a young boy named James Leininger remembering his past life as a fighter pilot in the second world war and who died after his plane crashed into the ocean. https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2017/04/REI42-Tucker-James-LeiningerPIIS1550830716000331.pdf https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1209795/Reincarnated-Our-son-World-War-II-pilot-come-life.html https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1550830716000331

YES Ero! The dismissal of science by those that are scientifically uneducated and inexperienced is a very serious handicap. It is like dismissing the alphabet under the claim that Poetry is evil; or dismissing the value of music under the claim that only snobs like opera - it is an incredible phenomenon that 99.9% of those that are under its spell have no clue of the impediment they are under and how it is affecting not only their mind but society. Of course science is a field affected by human weaknesses, and there is corruption that the average (non-cutting-edge) scientists are prone to - and like it or not - there is an aspect of science that has become a religion. As long as one is aware of that 'mechanism', one can benefit from science without falling pray to dogma. The true source of the dogma that is affecting part of the scientific community is the ideology known as Materialism and/or Physicalism. Which is a serious impediment to scientific advancement, as you mentioned. I keep my eye on the fields of science that fall on the cutting-edge of the limits of Physicalism - limits that have been challenged by Quantum Mechanics for over a century. Recently there is a new scientific movement focusing on Consciousness as an object of scientific inquiry- which has already challenged Physicalism to the point of its almost complete collapse. Science has a huge body of data from parapsychology research, Near Death Experience Research, Evidence of what we call 'reincarnation' research, lots of old research on hypnosis, even research on the placebo effect - ALL challenging Physicalism/Materialism dogma!

Its mostly about reincarnation and how consciousness continues.

"Clearly there you can not see an unique soul , you just see a bunch of conditioned configuration." How did you jump from this to "therefore reincarnation is real"?

Is very simple actually. Next time you go out when you see a Young kid, like 8 or 9 year old, notice the following: That kid is an unique configuration of the imprints of his father, mother, (and the herency of this father and this mother in lesser ways), and also the result of the imprints of whatever that body/Mind has absorbed from the hospital bed to now Now...for All of that "configuration" or specific kind of memory to happen, there must be something there more fundamental giving "Life" to It isnt It? Clearly there you can not see an unique soul , you just see a bunch of conditioned configuration. So thats reincarnation, the process of the Reality to unconscious replicate itself and pick Up memories and configurations of its own manifested Creation.

In 2008, I believed I was trapped in an abusive relationship. Believed the only way out was suicide. My third attempt was successful, clinically died. NDE brought me back, my life became mine. Reincarnation is a man made concept to help cope with death in my perspective. However, it is also true that all that can be imagined is permitted so your perspective can coincide and contradict while both are true and false...lol. You created your answers when created your questions. It's your ego that wants the answers right away, so if you kill your body...you kill your ego. And never get answers. lol Are you suffering? Are you able to see suffering while suffering without judging it? I know it can be hard to let go of suicidal ideations when they take hold, that energy is ancient. Be mindful and breathe, know you are safe, your are loved, all is well if your mind tells you otherwise. From suffering comes immense peace is your not afraid to curiously look in real-time experience. Take care, friend! XOXO

Fair enough. Multiple personality situation is one possible explanation here. But at the very least the video should make one question the existance of a soul as a real thing. The internet is full of such videos proving paranormal phenomena like this nowadays. Maybe the mystics were telling the truth when they were speaking about such things as reincarnation, souls, angelic/demonic possessions, speaking to the dead etc. If that video was not convincing enough that souls exists, maybe this will do. A well documented, medically studied case of a random dude who claimed to have another soul living inside of him, and that soul was performing surgeries on people even tho the first guy had no medical background. And was able to say things that he had no knowledge about. Also his medical methods were nothing short of a supernatural.

I have been studying NDE's (Near Death Experiences) since the end of the 70's. I have read, and listen to a few hundred testimonies. I also read many books on the subject, especially those written by researchers. There are a few NDE testimonies from suicide attempts. The first thing I would like to explain which result from all that research on the subject of the afterlife - is about Karma and Judgment. A phenomenon reported by great number of NDE'r is the phenomenon of the Life-Review. In almost all cases when one is having his Life-Review he/she is in the presence of a very Loving being or Beings - who maybe is a Guide or an Old friend or a Family member that has been on the other side. The experience of receiving unconditional Love from that Being or those Beings is remarkably consistent in testimonies explaining their experiences of the Life Review. During the Life-Review the only source of Judgments is You as in the one who is reviewing his life. This is important to understand. It is your Judgment that determines not only if you are to experience a karmic-debt but how one is to find peace with himself as a result of his action in this lifetime. The concept of paying a karmic-debt is only the means chosen by You to achieve Peace with yourself. Karma is not just about reincarnation - you can process your Karma without experiencing a human life again. We are here experiencing human-life as an effective mean to LEARN - a learning process that we usually plan before our birth. After we leave this body, our spiritual evolution is not any different than before we left the Earth-plane - so for most of us it means we still have some LEARNING to do in the afterlife. 'Learning' is one of the main activities of the afterlife. As far as suicide is concerned - the consequences will depend on you and how you will judge the 'decision' you made of cutting short your human journey. What is different about the Life-Review and how we see our life here while in it - is that during the Life-Review we experience every feeling and emotions of OTHERS. How our words and actions impact others - we not only feel every feeling but also in some cases experience how their life would of been different if we had not said or done a certain action. Suicide is usually very bad for those you leave behind - and even if you are old and alone - suicide has a very negative impact on others in your community; those that find your body; neighbors; etc... Of course this is a generalization, and today we have more and more legal euthanasia - which in this context of the Life Review - would be different than a suicide.

@Salvijus posted a video in another thread about a person, or I guess a body, that is inhabited by two souls. I was very skeptical but watching the video, I am not sure what to make of this. Is it fake, a lie? Is it some sort of neuological condition? Or maybe an actual spiritual phenomena? Could this be related to reports of people switching bodies in India, and various reports of reincarnation? If it is just completely fake that is some genius level stuff to pull of. Maybe it isn't as impressive as I'm thinking, given someone were to practice this all day every day for years.

Umm again I say this with all humility, I know really nothing of Death because I haven't Died:) But I trust the sources I researched, so from what they say, if You are in a Suffering of sorts at the moment of Death, then that is what You will feel in the afterlife and it could be for a long time.. The only time You don't get that, is when You die a Happy Person, then in afterlife You feel very happy, and to have Union or Liberation, Not like heaven stories from Bible, but non individuality, then that is Muhkti or Dissolution, like a drop in the ocean going back into the ocean, its no longer a drop but merges with the entire ocean, its the same with this.. You are just a Bubble, the lining of the Bubble is Your Karma, you think You are this lining/karma, but Your what is inside the Bubble (LIfe itself), Spiritual practice and its ultimate goal is to burst the bubble completely, not reform it again and become another bubble (reincarnation).. So Suicide although I can see why ppl do it (I have experience with it as a family member died by suicide in 06') does not end the suffering sorry to say!

Thank you Ishanga Desire is the WILL functioning under a specific thought-system. The Desire is driven to achieve something BECAUSE of a 'promise' that the object of desire represent. This 'PROMISE' is just that and nothing more. This fact is related to the concept of the Devil as the 'great-deceiver' because it represent what drives a soul to seek but not to find - perpetual seeking - which is also related to the "wheel of reincarnation". What all object-of-desire ultimately promises is 'Happiness' - which is WHAT all souls ultimately seek. To seek is to 'Want' and 'wanting' is always an expression of a state that is fittingly define as "NEED". The entire experience of Life on Earth is driven by 'NEEDS'. All biology is a mechanism fueled by NEEDS. Every soul that experiences physicality and mortality is pulled in that drive to respond to NEEDS - and seek and seek - over and over; one life-cycle after another... this is UNTIL the soul REALIZES ...