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Sorry but what’s the argument for that? Euthanasia can be morally justified in cases of hopeless unbearable suffering. It’s easy to underestimate the kinds of suffering that exist in this world until you witness them firsthand. If someone as intelligent and self-aware as Leo contemplated suicide because of some stomach or digestive problems imagine what people with far more devastating conditions might endure. Think of elderly people who are completely disabled and have lost all independence or those who are incontinent and require constant care. Think of someone who has lost both arms or legs in a war or someone who survived a fire but suffered catastrophic burns over most of their body.ther are also children born with extremely rare and severe genetic disorders like two heads stuck in one body Go spend some time in a hospital’s emergency room or intensive care unit. You’ll see that unimaginable suffering is a reality for many people. euthanasia can be morally valid in certain extreme cases where there is no realistic hope of recovery and the suffering is unbearable.

@Zenterus To me, it seems like you are the only few here who actually understands what it takes to go out there to meet random people. Being 100% authentic is social suicide in most social situations (especially if you are deep into spirituality and self-actualization). As you said, you will alienate 99%+ people. And overall, I agree with you. That is what must be done. That’s why I also don’t optimize my IG for max stage orange girls. I have slow art, and art that requires you to be able to feel deep. I write pholosophical texts. Texts that asks you to reflect on your selfishness and biases. All this is to screen for the few rare individuals who actually resonates. So I agree with you. That being said, it is hard to accept that and be so alone. Which is what I am struggling with. I am being vulnerable and humble by admitting all this here, yet I get attacked with ”you think you are superior, better than others”, which I find weird. Kinda disappointing to be honest. Also, this thread wasn’t just about me, as I made it very clear, yet many of you are just making this about me and my ”superiority complex”.

There is evidence to support the claim that open, responsible conversations about suicide are generally more protective in the long run, over silence or non allowance. Blanket bans on these sorts of topics can lead to possibilities of inducing shame, isolation and mistakenly creating beliefs we are not allowed to speak on these topics. The evidence does NOT show talking about suicide always prevents suicide, or that any discussion is beneficial. A lot of this topic is tightly woven into questions around sovereignty/agency, personal responsibility and ethics. Terminal health diagnosis that cement us into a slowly declining quality of life often lead to suicidal thoughts as a possible solution. I know my relative who was recently diagnosed with MND is seriously considering assisted suicide. At the end of the day it's always how, by whom, and in what context suicide is talked about.

I once had a bad trip that was so bad, I literally almost committed suicide. I had asked God to teach me why evil existed in the world and why anyone would want to commit suicide since life is so precious. God responded by answering my query by hallucinating Satan and Satan tormented me by hallucinating situations that showed me that I had no control over my life. Basically I lost control over my mind, and got to find out what Insanity is. Since your mind is the Universe you can literally hallucinate events like people doing things, technology doing things for example I went out for a drive and I hallucinated my GPS refusing to work and I got completely lost and couldn't get home. Also since I was hallucinating Satan, Satan would hit me with painful sensations in my body and then laugh and mock me that it had control over my life and my life was ruined. So in my anger and defiance I drove to a gun pawn shop (found it by chance) and walked in and asked for the cheapest gun and bullets. The store owner lied and said he was out of ammunition. When I walked in, it was like they KNEW I wanted to kill myself without them knowing. Anyway I eventually was able to get to the hospital and get some anti-psychotics. I now know why someone would commit suicide. First of all you cannot blame ANYONE for that decision. The only reason a person commits suicide is because they believe they have zero control in this world of survival to create a life for themselves that they can at least tolerate. No matter who you are, you are NOT above suicide. All that has happened in your situation is life hasn't gotten bad enough for you that you think it isn't worth living. With that said, I don't regret the experience I had because it taught me ALOT.

Catholic church already castrate enough the individual freedom with their philosophy of absolute terror , nothing happens if some voices of freedom sounds sometimes . Leo maybe should be, let's say ambiguous, but not because the suicidal people, because his interest and possible responsibility. Anyway, for me suicide is absolutely impossible unless being so sick without hope that your life is hell. If your health is ok, just fight, anything else is being an absolute coward imo. I don't know if there is reincarnation or anything similar but intuitively I feel that this life has consequences.

People looking for reasons to off themselves read past this and focus on this: I left it out because I don't want to have to explain how your little disclaimers are useless when your whole point is basically "suicide is okay if you're suffering enough". And obviously, most everyone contemplating suicide seriously will think that their suffering is enough. It's not that I've not thought about the truly stuck minority. It's that you have no way to target them specifically, which means your rhetoric is net-negative. Obviously.

Which is why I said: "Life is a gift. Figure out how to make it work." You deliberately leave that out. My position is the nuanced one. Not yours. You only think about the majority but not the truly stuck minority. Telling people not to commit suicide does not stop suicide. This misunderstands how serious suicide is. Suicide is so serious that talking someone down from it is not going to work in a serious case. Your words do nothing to ease their daily suffering. "Don't do it, brah" is not a serious solution.

You don't have to lie, you just don't have to contribute. And it's not about pleasing me. I'm pointing out your immaturity such that you might reconsider your position and see how your rhetoric contributes to the suicide of people in temporary suffering. But we do know the vast majority of suicides are not the rare cases your framing targets. The vast majority contemplating suicide are in temporary states of suffering that will pass. Maybe for every 1,000 people reading your suicide rhetoric, one of them fits your framing. But the other 999 are using your rhetoric just the same as the one. It's obviously a net-negative, and it's not even close.

I am not going to lie just to please you. Humans have the right to commit suicide. You do not have the right to tell them it is bad or wrong just because it offends you. You have no idea how difficult their lives are.

Even if it's not true, the correct position on suicide is "It's always bad and you should never do it under any circumstances." Your need to demonstrate your sophisticated, nuanced philosophy or metaphysics matters so much that you'll broadcast tacit endorsement to susceptible people.

Authentic here? Or authentic socializing? Here I am being 100% authentic. 100% authentic with normies is a social suicide, as leo made a blogpost about recently. I try to be as authentic as possible but there is no way I can be 100% authentic. Perhaps 75-85% max.

@HojoI am too coward to suicide anyway, I decided to live my life till the end of this perspective.

I can understand someone committing suicide if they have a shitty life. Like being particularly ugly, mentaly ill for some reason, disabled, and/or sick.

I’m not sure if this applies to everyone but it did for me . for anyone struggling with depression or thinking of suicide I find expression highly curative . Talk to someone you know and let it all out. Say everything. Don’t keep it pent up inside . That hurts more than death itself.

Surrendering your attachment to being a human is distinct from dying by suicide.

He obviously must give a diplomatic enough answer. You know that certain people on this community have committed suicide in the past and we don’t want this tragedy happening again . Obviously it’s a sensitive topic and Leo has to be careful not to beat you over the head with the truth . the truth is god doesn’t care about your suffering. God has bigger concerns than soothing the pain of a little speck of dust lost in infinite desert. He clearly stated that existentially speaking there is no ought and especially no negative value to suicide . He also said you can’t generalize it like that and say suicide is always a mistake . Obviously if you are in chronic incurable pain you are better off dead ..but not the case if you have some silly first world problem or something . It depends.

Obviously I am not going to endorse suicide. Life is a gift. Figure out how to make it work.

btw. did you just establish your public position to be morally against suicide in almost any case, or is there a non-obvious deeper meaning to it? I‘d understand if you just decided on the first. But how cool would it be, if there was an ultra deep reason as to why suicide is metaphysical inferior to dreaming on. feel free to share your thoughts.

Nobody knows how reality works. Maybe you're living simultaneously in 124 dimensions, and every time you grab your dick thinking dirty thoughts, baby Jesus cries and sends you one eon to hell (because he loves you) Or maybe when you die, it doesn't matter if you're a serial killer of children or a saint. The point is, there's only one guide: your inner guide. If you feel that suicide is truly the right choice, the integral choice, the one that will allow you to open your heart to death without fear, without shame, and with joy, then suicide is perfect.

"WAKE UP, YOU ARE DREAMING" is a very pro suicide thing to say🤔

My perspective is this: Life is a precious gift, so do everything you can not to squander it. However, suicide is not some evil thing that humans make it out to be. Death comes for everyone. But if you are considering suicide, I strongly suggest you exhaust all other options first. You are free to commit suicide, but those that do are probably making a mistake. Although not always. Bottom line is, you never know if someone doing it is making a mistake or not. Be careful not to assume.

I'm curious. Does solipsism mean it won't affect anyone? Is there a soul, progress lost? How bad is it overall? Or can it be good? What if you're a human working on polarity vs a wanderer here to help, or is that outside Leo's scope? I have my own views as Bashar, but am curious.

How do you know that? Seem a religious idea. Are you absolutely sure that it's real? Maybe it's a manifestation of your inherent need of control. Or maybe is true, who knows. But the question is: how do you know? A lot of people live in extreme suffering, wishing never have born and looking suicide as the most wonderful liberation. In fact a lot of people commit suicide and much more don't do because they don't dare. Agree, liberation happens when there is not inner resistance anymore, but this is not easy, there are many subtle ways to resist. For example need of control. Absence of inner resistance implies openess, and openess implies the realization of the unlimited in every moment of your life.

If Messi wins this time again and won the golden boat of this year’s World Cup..Ronaldo might commit suicide. Lol I’m impressed how he can carry such agility in moving in this age . He plays like he has been in his prime .

Mystical stuff is career suicide in places like Harvard. Some may do it, but they do so mostly in the shadows. Math is a special case where how you get it done doesn't matter as long as the proof gets delivered. This can sorta work in math but it cannot work in informal fields like science where stuff is way more messy, murky, and no proofs per se exist. I am not going after math, I am going after science because they are the ones who invented the "but this is unscientific" defense. "Trust me bro, I know what real science". With regards to your point about my tone and style, I understand that point and I am experimenting with what tone best to take. Basically, the ideas I'm presenting are so fucking radical that science will not accept them. So my tone reflects that. In math you have proofs. In my science what I am saying cannot be formally proven. So what I'm facing is quite different from your math situation. The notion that if I'm just more polite and nice that science will embrace these ideas is just not how it works. Science will fight these ideas to the death. And yes, science is long overdue for some shaming because they are shameless. Is it ideal to shame scientists? No. But it is deserved given their overall behavior. I am not just writing dry academic arguments, I am sending the world a passionate wake up call. For better or worse. If I am going to demonized and slandered anyway, I may as well not pull any punches.