whoareyou

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Posts posted by whoareyou

  2. Posted

    3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

    Well, for the reasons I laid out in my previous post, this makes zero sense.

    You’re commenting without actually understanding how or why therapy works. When a psychedelic enables someone to play the violin without ever having picked one up before, or learn German without studying, you can make these sorts of claims. 

    And I’ve had trips and have talked to people who have had many, many trips.

    Have you done any 5-MEO? I doubt that you have done 5-MEO even once. I agree with LEO 100%, no therapy comes even close to a 1 solid trip. 

     

  4. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

    I am not enlightened. I just had such an experience of how I grasp this state. 

    When do you think is the liberated state?

    Is it turquoise?

    Or a state (without connection to any level)?

     

    By liberation, I am talking about a lasting liberation and personal transformation, where an individual is free from the restraining and persistent confines of the energetic structures of the ego. 

    Some of the things to describe an individual who is liberated: 

    1) Authentic - is able to freely express themselves without being locked into EGO. A great sense of variability is there - energetically they are able to shift from non-dual to the character. They are not locked into EGO all the time.

    2) Free from Egoic Projections - A person is able to see through their own egoic projections. A person in a liberated state can see that these are just their own egoic projections, attachments, and are not true. A person who would be locked into EGO, would not be able to see this and for them those egoic projections would be true.

    3) Universal Love vs Personal Preferences - Living with an open, unguarded, unconditionally loving heart. Loving everything but not liking everything - an individual universally loves everything, but still has their own preferences.

    Keep in mind, spiral dynamics is just a map and is not entirely accurate. Is there a correlation between the most advanced stages though and liberation? Absolutely. If you read what I wrote above, you will see how lower stages such as blue would not be compatible with liberation.

  5. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    @Nivsch  This is why it is best to avoid using the word "enlightenment" all together. You are using the word "enlightenment" in a very vague way. What happens, is many people who experience small fraction of liberation, or have a powerful nondual experience, start running around claiming to be "enlightened", which can't be further from the truth. The ego sneaks back through the backdoor.

    Many here (including LEO), just don't understand the difference between having many insights, and nondual experiences vs actually living in a liberated state. This is a very nuanced point, and requires to you to have a lot of direct personal experience to understand this.

     

  6. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    @whoareyou Of course

    But what I'm telling you is, awakenings can occur at any stage. They will then be filtered and understood through the lens of that stage.

    This notion of "full enlightenment" that you guys like to use is absurd. It's sloppy and creates many foolish conclusions.

    No it is not absurd. Your definitions are causing a lot of confusion.

    You need to differentiate between nondual experience, vs liberation.

    There are many more people who have had nondual experiences, and very few people who actually ever were fully liberated.

    Nondual experience or many nondual experiences/awakenings =/ Liberation.

    Do not get attached to the word "experience" here, it is only used so it would be understandable for people.

    When one is liberated from the EGO, the things that you mentioned here would clearly be out of question.

    There is a bigger fish to catch as you like to say.

    Of course at any given stage, a person can have an "awakening" or "nondual experience"  - they could very easily be on their way to liberation. But do not confuse this with total liberation - which very few individuals have ever been at.

    The best indicators are not the labels of "master", "monk", etc.  The best indicators are what the person embodies. Liberation comes from being very conscious, and when you are that conscious - the things that you mentioned here would be out of question.

  7. Posted

    18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    You guys are conflating enlightenment with other things.

    Love is part of enlightenment.

    The fact you gotta face is many serious Zen masters were stage Blue.

    Have you ever contemplated that the so called people that you view as "Zen Masters" were not actually fully enlightened or liberated? Try to be open to the possibility, that your view of what is enlightenment and who you view as enlightened could be wrong.

  8. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    @Leo Gura The problem here is your vague/loose definition of "enlightenment" and who you think is "enlightened" and who is not. I told you about this in the past, and will once again tell you to really re-evaluate what you think enlightenment is and who you think is enlightened - you are off the mark here, and this has been causing a lot of confusion for yourself and to your students.

    I agree with @How to be wise  I don't see how a person who is fully liberated can be at stage blue for example. To me, being liberated comes with being very conscious and when you are conscious - it would be very hard to support fascists/nationalists. 

    Those so called Zen Monks have been far ahead of your average person, but clearly not enlightened in my book.

    There is definitely a correlation between your values, and your level of consciousness. 

  9. Posted

    54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    That's an illusion. You'll see.

    She is precisely replaceable. Not only that, but you WILL replace her.

    But for a short while you'll suffer. Because that's the nature of irrational attachment. Notice that when you put something up on a pedestal in your mind, you create your own suffering.

    The whole key to dating women is: Don't get attached to her AT ALL until at least you sleep with her. Any attachment you create before that will only create needless suffering and usually ends up ensuring you never sleep with her.

    All romantic love is pure illusion. It's as illusory as jerking off to a celebrity in your mind. Only here you're using a real person to jerk off into -- which allows you to fool yourself into thinking it is real. Nope. Still pure fantasy.

    What do you mean by "all romantic love is pure illusion"? 

  11. Posted

    On 7/8/2019 at 3:06 PM, SQAAD said:

    How Do You Distinguish Truth from Delusion when Tripping on Psychedelics?

    When i am tripping everything feels so real and truthful but afterwards i start questioning many things and also oberve some delusions. This has made me doubtful about the psychedelic spiritual path .

    Any insights would be highly appreciated.

    Start by observing your delusions, and egoic attachments when you are NOT tripping. And apply it during your trips.

    The ego likes to make a lot of projections during the trips, which have nothing to do with reality.

  12. Posted

    10 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

    The map exists inside of the territory. It cannot exist anywhere else because there is nowhere else. The territory is everything, including all maps. Words can point to the truth, and are the truth.

    What is the truth?

    You seem to be lost in a web of concepts, which is what happens when you mentally conceptualize too much and don't have enough of direct experience. 

  13. Posted

    11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    This is false.

    Insight goes beyond thought.

    But also thought can carry truth, and must itself be a part of Truth, otherwise it could not exist.

    False. Map is not the territory. Words can only point to the truth, but are not the truth itself.

    There will be a point, when you will no longer need to chase insights, and will instead just be. 

  15. Posted

    There is absolutely no need to follow anyone, or to even have a "guru". Gurus, and ashrams are outdated.

    As been said, he would never endorse psychedelics - it would not benefit him in anyway, and plus he works with the government. 

  17. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

    @whoareyou i exposed him as a troll.  I knew what he was the moment i saw his posts.  

    I didn't stalk you down...i had a discussion with you and you spent the entire time insulting me.  Go back and read it.

     

    This confirms that you are a troll. I never insulted you. I ended the conversation with you that went nowhere, and you continued to try to start it up again.

    You also replied on a couple of other threads in a snarky way, attempting to again engage in debate. Like I said, and I will say it for last time - do not bother engaging in anymore discussions with me, you will be ignored and any further trolling attempts will be reported. 

  18. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    User @Umar_uk has been banned.

    The ban hammer is coming around, so watch yourselves.

    Why did you ban Umar_uk only in this case? Inliytened1 always starts non-duality wars, spams threads, and also stalks people down - he stalked me down several times by seeing where I post and tried to start shit. My gut says he is a troll of some kind 

  19. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    Dude, chill. By shamanic work I was simply referring to Martin's sessions where he guided clients.

    You get really hung up on technicalities without seeing the bigger picture of the conversation.

    What Martin was doing is just a variation of shamans offering medicine. Call it what you will.

    This is not me getting hung up on technicalities - there are significant things here which you are not aware of. If you haven't skimmed it, but actually read it carefully, contemplated, and had your own direct experience - you would have a different perspective.

    What Martin was doing, was not a variation of shamans offering the medicine. The shamans offer the medicine in a ritualistic way by creating ceremonies. There are lot of dualistic beliefs attached to it. And they offer it to larger groups, anywhere between 10-20 people. Usually the person there smokes Bufo only once. Martin was doing non-dual therapy, and only 1 on 1 sessions. Per session the person would consume it 3 times. Martin clearly stated that what the shamans do and what he does - are very different approaches.

    How do I know this? Because I have had experience with the shamans, and have also done things the way Martin W Ball described. 

    There is a difference between just reading something, and actually understanding it. 

    Quote

    I have read his books, I'm just not hanging on his every word as you seem to be. I read his books and quickly moved on to greater things. I am not interested in following his books as a step by step instruction manual. Precisely because I have other perspectives to consider and I saw problems with some of his methodology, including the dismissal of insight and intellectual integration of trips. I was also not interested in energetically overloading myself. I asked him about the possibility of energetic overload in an email a long time ago. He said it wasn't a problem at all. And I decided for myself that I don't believe that. It is a legit problem from my POV. And I take that into account whenever I trip and with how I suggest others trips. Because it's pretty obvious to me that disregarding energetic overload can be dangerous and reckless for other people if not for oneself. Which is why I developed the plugging method.

    I don't blindly follow people, I learn from them and adapt it to suit myself. I recommend you do the same, otherwise you might end up following someone off a cliff.

    Your EGO clearly got scared, and you backed out. You don't have any direct experience of this - just a limiting belief. Why even ask him, if you are not going to believe him - given you already have opinion which you will not change? You preach open-mindedness, but here you got blinded by fear.

    Energetic overload is not a problem- I can personally confirm this as I have verified it for myself. This is actually one of the beauties of 5-MEO, it can provide that energetic overload that no other psychedelic can.

    You don't have to blindly follow anyone, but you got to verify things through direct experience, as you have been doing with other things.

    The fact that you haven't even done it once up to this point - tells me that there is a lot of fear (nothing wrong with that, very natural with this work). You will say that you don't have the time, or the interest, but that is all excuses. It's much easier to not go all the way, and continue to get insights ,and convince yourself that you are going deeper, and deeper - then to face yourself right on.

    When you are ready to move "deeper", you will have to drop the chase for the insights, and the need to intellectually understand everything. It's a trap, which is very evident for me, as I have been there before myself. Few other users on this forum have pointed this out.

     

  20. Posted

    3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Esoteric I specifically asked him how many trips it took him to have his awakening and it was not a lot. Not as many as you mention above.

    Then he started being a shaman. Which is what he describes in that vid above. And yeah, I stand corrected, seems like he did a lot of it at that point as part of his shaman gig.

    So he did much more than me then in total.

    I did not realize he was smoking it in every shaman session.

    Also, taking on other people's bad energy could be very problematic if that's what his shamanism involved.

    You told me that you have read ALL of his books, yet you are saying here that Martin W Ball was doing shamanic work? Wtf?

    I asked you specifically if you read his latest book(you said obviously yes!) and you clearly haven't. Martin W Ball specifically states that shamanism is not compatible with the work that is requried for liberation because it is dualistic in nature. He talks about these things in detail.

    The way that shamans use psychedelics and the way that Martin W Ball did, are very DIFFERENT.

    Also, without taking into account Martin W Balls' sessions with clients, he individually has done easily over 100 trips alone. It may have taken him a few to get an "awakening", but far more afterwards that he described as "full liberation".

     

  21. Posted

    58 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

    Yes. But there are also moments of genuine connection with Truth, which feel like Truth is simply contemplating itself, verbalizing to itself and amazing itself. It's like the difference between arguing and composing poetry.

    Don't get me wrong, though. This is not a wrong thing to do. It's just the natural path on which Truth becomes fully aware of itself through human beings. We gradually become less conceptual and more experiential.

    Out of all the people on this forum, you are one of the few that totally gets it.

    Once you really KNOW the truth, conceptualization goes down significantly and eventually it's most just experiential. 

  23. Posted · Edited by whoareyou

    3 minutes ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

    hmm I wouldn’t be to sure of that. Plus the fact that he doesn’t seem to be enlightened anymore. Seems like reason for some concern

    If you followed his situation closely, you would know that his sleeping problems go all the way back to childhood. He met with different professionals and they confirmed that to him as well. He had them long before using any psychedelics, but things escalated the last 2 years - the years when he did NO psychedelics at all.

    Any "enlightened" person would be like this, if they had such a problem. Enlightened people are not immune to suffering from such issues, especially that have messed up neurochemistry