New War In Israel / Gaza

[Mormegil]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I was also interested in understanding Hitler when I was young. When I was 17 or so I bought and started reading Mein Kampf to try to understand Hitler.

I think studying standard history books about WW I and the politics of Europe and especially Germany of that era will give you more insights into understanding Hitler^^ His book is a joke.

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

 

30 minutes ago, zazen said:

But the main regime that needs changing is the one that goes around trying to change everyone else's

Yes, with the small nuance that it is not a regime, it is the natural evolution of a free society. Are you afraid of freedom and prefer a prison where there is only obedience? Not me. Freedom can lead to loneliness, madness, emptiness, but death a thousand times sooner than the prison with which the fearful lock themselves in, without the slightest doubt.

[MsNobody]

 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I was also interested in understanding Hitler when I was young. When I was 17 or so I bought and started reading Mein Kampf to try to understand Hitler.

I think hitler is interesting

he was into the occult and more sensitive it seems than other dictators like stalin, mussolini, jong uns, pol pot etc

a failed artist ? also too much drugs

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Mormegil said:

I think studying standard history books about WW I and the politics of Europe and especially Germany of that era will give you more insights into understanding Hitler^^ His book is a joke.

Of course I didn't just read his book. I also read other books.

Yes, Mein Kampf is a bad read. But I didn't know that at the time.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Peo]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I've seen, leftists are split on this. Some are so blind they support Hamas out of their love for Palestinians. More reasonable people on the left condemn the terrorism as much as people on the right.

Norway condemns attacks on Isreal, but is the only western country that refuse to call Hamas for an terrorist organization. It has created a lot of split in nowegian poltics. 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Peo said:

Norway condemns attacks on Isreal, but is the only western country that refuse to call Hamas for an terrorist organization. It has created a lot of split in nowegian poltics. 

Intresting

but Norway is only like a five million country

what about Ireland (another 5 million country) weren’t they very supportive of the « palestinian cause » ?

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Here you have to differentiate between countries and even regions imo though. Places like Iran, Saudi etc in that regard extremely backwards and repressive. While other places are more forward. You could say the more they take Islam serious the more backwards/repressive though in a way

The problem is the trend, you can see photos of Kabul in 1970 and it looked like Europe, with women dressed in fashion, but the disease called Islam has an evolution in a clear direction 

https://www.gettyimages.es/fotos/afghanistan-in-the-1970s

[zazen]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's normal, 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/08/saudi-arabia-drop-ludicrous-conviction-and-death-sentence-against-man-convicted-over-social-media-posts/ 

Islamic countries repress with extreme harshness any sign of freedom

Demeaning an entire religious group of 2 billion people because some of them incompetently perform their responsibilities and abuse their position to cause undue harm is foolish and short-sighted. 

Most muslim men are not monsters looking to cause harm and it's ignorantly offensive and unjust to characterise them as such. 

In Islam and in their patriarchal structure the conduct of wives, sisters and daughters is regulated by fathers, brothers, uncles and husbands - incidences of mistreatment from a man towards the women in his family or community is dealt with by other men.

Men do not just exist to control, but to guide and protect. It's not as if every man she knows is conspiring to make her life hell. Such a notion is a ridiculous caricature of patriarchy. 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem is the trend, you can see photos of Kabul in 1970 and it looked like Europe, with women dressed in fashion, but the disease called Islam has an evolution in a clear direction 

https://www.gettyimages.es/fotos/afghanistan-in-the-1970s

Well seems mostly because the soviets came and the u.s. started supporting the extremists

[Mohammad]

9 minutes ago, Nabd said:

But sadly I just don't think its as simple as Israel vs Iran. The Egyptians, since they have spies/connections in Gaza, warned Israel 10 days ago that an attack is near. Yet Israel did nothing, this means that Israel wanted Hamas to force them to go to war. Which means Israel either fooled Iran or they did some kind of deal.

This makes sense to me, and I think this is true to some degree. They definitely fooled mullas, because israel is smarter, and they will do damage to iranian regime. The iranian regime is afraid, although they pretend that they are happy about the attack, but the narrative has shifted, world powers are supporting israel, and this spells trouble for IRGC and hence the mullas.

[zazen]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem is the trend, you can see photos of Kabul in 1970 and it looked like Europe, with women dressed in fashion, but the disease called Islam has an evolution in a clear direction 

https://www.gettyimages.es/fotos/afghanistan-in-the-1970s

Wahhabism is a particular strand of Islam that isn't effective in human flourishing, correct - neither are particular strands of any philosophy, religion or lifestyle.

 

The strand of liberal progressivism that now occupies the West hasn't been effective either. An excerpt below remarking on the state of the West as it stands:

 

''Westerners are more mentally ill than they've ever been before and there exists a dearth of rationality in public discourse. Everything's hyper emotionalised and exaggerated, reactive + bereft of stoicism.

Westerners are, quite simply, going nuts, because the natural order has been disrupted, and because the disruption of that order has taken the steady political and communal functioning of their families away from them, and the stability that provides.

Combine that with Godlessness, and you have mass misery. There is no purpose, nor sense of connection to anything - just an endless hedonic treadmill of capital pursuit - an obsession with money. That's all that remains to fill the gaping void left by social breakdown.

And so a high trust culture becomes a low trust culture, and the height of civilization becomes the global laughing stock. Loneliness is greater than ever despite connectivity being greater than ever - a dark and poetic irony. People are miserable, but they think is normal.

And our governments try to export this to you. They try to break you like us, to destroy you in the way they destroyed their own people. And if your government tries to preserve your culture and defy their social edicts, they subject you to regime change to impose their ways.

But the main regime that needs changing is the one that goes around trying to change everyone else's. The regime that broke its own people, then exports its dysfunction globally and labels it progress, when not doing as they say leads to punishment and lack of foreign investment.

As a westerner, I would like to think the west is a force for good in the world - but I struggle to see it. I am not treasonous or self-loathing, I love our heritage, but I am observant. And the culture we are exporting is poisonous. Where we once civilized we simply now corrupt.

The most ardent anti-westerners will of course deny we ever civilized anything at all. That the western man was always evil, never did any good for the world, and deserves the current doom befalling him - I don't believe that, but I appreciate why they might hold this sentiment. ''

 

[Mohammad]

6 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Saudis don't work. They bring slaves to work for them and they take their passports so they can't leave. They call this system "Kafala" which they introduced in 1960s after the UN forced them to abolish slavery (literally), they still kept slavery but with makeup.

I used to live in Dubai. Same system is in place over there as well. People from India, pakistan, bangladesh. Modern day slavery.

[zazen]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

One of the most important aspects that don't get talked about much when discussing why Muslim countries are backward today is slavery.

Up until the 19th century or maybe a bit earlier, slavery was rampant and Muslims took slaves from Europe and Africa by the millions. This kept them economically ahead of everyone.

I remember one sheikh said "do you want to end this economic crisis in Egypt? Just allow us to Jihad and take European slaves! We raid them and everyone comes back with a blonde and some money". He wasn't wrong.

Interesting take on this.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Saudis don't work. They bring slaves to work for them and they take their passports so they can't leave.

The US is run on Hispanic migrant labor too.

Of course Saudi is gonna be worse because it's much less developed.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Mohammad]

1 minute ago, Nabd said:

I honestly think this is just a deal between Israel and Iran. They traded Gaza and Hamas in return Iran would be safe in Syria and Iraq. Because the US brought huge ass amount of forces into Syria recently and it looked like they will do another Saddam Hussein against Assad.

This could be true as well, but i think it's unlikely. The situation in Iran will change. European and Americans are just waiting for the right opportunity. The Iranian regime cannot last for much loner, sanctions has crippled the country, and they are infighting all the time. The problem is their presence in the region, in the form of quds force, hezbolla, houthis, hashad shabi in iraq , hamas to some degree etc. Their proxies. If their proxies get weak, they have no upper hand in the region anymore. And then the western countries can increase the pressure on them much more. And then they will collapse

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, zazen said:

Men do not just exist to control, but to guide and protect. It's not as if every man she knows is conspiring to make her life hell. Such a notion is a ridiculous caricature of patriarchy

Obviously they are not aware of what are they doing. bury themselves in a mountain of fear, sadness and hatred.

What you say about there being depression in Europe is very funny. The situation of women, who make up 50% of the population, in Muslim countries, is one of submission. There is no depression because it is normal to be depressed. sadness is its natural state. Obviously if you have to take care of 7 small children, that keeps you busy, balanced, with a sense of purpose. but if that's not the case, you're in hell. University women who wants to be open are in no man's land, you find some very brave ones who are strong, normally their dream is to leave the Muslim world. All of them that I met say: never with a Muslim. My experience is only Morocco and turkey, maybe another countries are different

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The US is run on Hispanic migrant labor too.

Of course Saudi is gonna be worse because it's much less developed.

I would say that the Saudis are at the head of the Muslim world in terms of moral tyranny, repression of women and extreme racism. They have Filipino slaves, they can kill and rape them and they will not receive punishment. They sleep overcrowded and are prisoners without being able to leave the country.

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The US is run on Hispanic migrant labor too.

Nah you can’t compare it.

US is creative see bill gates, jobs silicon valley, hollywood etc. Saudis and Emiratis etc are not

even the burj khalifa highest building was designed by americans not arabs (and built by indians probably for almost nothing)

Edited October 11, 2023 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Nabd said:

Yes.

Saudis barely work and you will hardly find them on creative or highly educated jobs.

Even their education system. They bring Egyptians, Iraqi and Syrians to teach their kids. They bring east asian maids to raise their kids. In university most professors are also foreigners. Only recently they started "Saudizing" these jobs and they fired many people but they got a shortage because Saudis dont work.

All these projects people see of Neom and almukaab or almurabaa are run by foreigners, not that these projects reflect any real development though.

Yah that’s why i said oil is holding them back. It’s like a handout by god/the government, can make you lazy and complacent

Edited October 11, 2023 by PurpleTree