Posted October 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, HMD said: @Breakingthewall okay so they became hostile due to a reason right? If you want to make things better then one would start by undoing whatever caused that hostility. But Israelis have refused to do this. They have failed plenty of times to let go of Gaza. Israel evacuate from gaza in 2005 letting them do all they want like an independent state. In 90's and 00's israel has suggested huge withdrawals including to 67' borders and part of jesusalem to be the palestinian's state capital. Non of the suggestion were accepted by the palestinians and the terror even increased after the peace negotiations. 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) @Nivsch “Following the withdrawal, Israel continues to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities“ that’s from 2005. Also, the terrorism was caused by Hamas. Hamas, an organization that Israel created. Edited October 21, 2023 by HMD "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) @HMD That couldnt be otherwise because egypt didnt want to help, and open borders would bring terrorists into israel. Edited October 21, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 @Nivsch Israel has been accused of violating or failing to fulfill specific obligations it had committed to under various ceasefire agreements on different occasions to alleviate or lift the blockade. “Crossings were repeatedly shut and buffer zones were reinstated. Imports declined, exports were blocked, and fewer Gazans were given exit permits to Israel and the West Bank. The blockade has been decried by human rights groups, international community representatives and legal professionals as a form of collective punishment in contravention of international law, specifically the Fourth Geneva Convention. Rights groups have held Israel mainly responsible as the occupying power. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 The reasons cited for Israel's refusal to allow passage of basic necessities are untenable. Israel claimed that its restrictions were necessary to put pressure on Hamas officials to halt or substantially hinder the firing of rockets into Southern Israel. However, there is no reasonable relationship between depriving Gazan civilians of subsistence items and the suppression of Hamas' rocket launchings against Israeli towns. Israel's duties to "protected persons" as an occupier of the Gaza Strip under Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention require that it allow the passage of all aid, foodstuffs, and water given the severity of the humanitarian crisis. The blockade appears to have clearly violated this provision of the law of occupation. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) Israel instituted the blockade against the Gaza Strip not in response to a violent attack, but rather in response to Hamas's ascension to exclusive authority in the Gaza Strip, and earlier in response to the Hamas victory in the 2006 Palestinian elections. Israel, in short, engaged in an act of war against an occupied people, and violated its legal obligations to them long before Operation Cast Lead had commenced. A multi-referenced University of California, Hastings College of the Law analysis in 2009 Edited October 21, 2023 by HMD "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said: Very interesting podcast with Sam Harris on Israel/Palestine conflict: It’s a nice decent discussion but in the end all that blablablabli all those concepts all that look at me i’m smart and can into exalted language and know what’s up…. what is it really good for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) Yeah, if you notice, Weinstein's solution to the problem is laughably unrealistic, despite all his fancy logic. Fancy academic logic is not gonna solve this issue. Which is why guys like Weinstein don't run governments or militaries. Edited October 21, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 Sam and Eric over intellectualised and got nowhere. Rationality is good but in over doing it you ration away the essence of the thing itself. Interesting analysis from Scot Ritter (ex marine corp) https://x.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1715620378520035510?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @zazen this paints a different picture https://youtu.be/OagYlYna75Y?feature=shared what is interesting is that he says even if troops invaded — to finally eliminate Hamas form their roots, others will spring up. innocent people being killed left and right in the middle of all of this, but “you should get sense in your mind b/c war is ugly and civilians die”. Between that and annexing some of Gaza, what is this looking like? Routinely killing people every number of years out of “we don’t know WTF else to do about it” gets ugly over time. Edited October 22, 2023 by Happy Lizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? It's like a chess game with human lives. Israel knows it's their move, as the world watches. Do they move without looking ahead? They seem to be... as I see it. Will they move, it's their turn. Could it come to a stalemate? The board ( Gaza) has been a little trashed already. Edited October 22, 2023 by Sir Oberon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sir Oberon said: Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? Stage Red terrorists may not think that far. They may just act out of bloodthirst, not strategy. If Hamas has the opportunity to kill 1000 Jews, they may just pounce on it without much thought of the consequences. The problem is that a Jihadist doesn't really care because he's ready to die either way. Edited October 22, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 Iran seems to be behind hamas and they seem to be quite strategical though, they aren’t idiots for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 maybe russia/iran want to open a kind of 2 front war against the west, ukraine, israel while china is eyeing taiwan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said: Iran seems to be behind hamas and they seem to be quite strategical though, they aren’t idiots for sure That is true. But it's unclear to me whether Iran wants Israel to invade Gaza. On the one hand it may bog Israel down. On the other hand Israel has a pretty good army and they might do some serious damage to Hamas. Edited October 22, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: That is true. But it's unclear to me whether Iran wants Israel to invade Gaza. On the one hand it may bog Israel down. On the other hand Israel has a pretty good army and they might do some serious damage to Hamas. "The New York Times was the first to report that the U.S. had collected multiple pieces of intelligence showing that key Iranian leaders did not know the attack was coming and were caught by surprise.Oct 11, 2023" https://www.reuters.com/world/initial-us-intelligence-shows-hamas-attack-surprised-iranian-leaders-ny-times-2023-10-11/ The scope and manner of the attack may not have been known. Who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 13 hours ago, HMD said: @Mesopotamian A very bad assumption that nobody gives a shit about them. Baseless assumption. People attach a lot of meaning to these sites. From your perspective, you see it as a delusion. Most people don’t. Every nation, or even individuals need to grow up at one point and stop their attachments to walls, rocks, buildings... etc.. When are Muslims going to grow up? Also same for Jewish people, their sentiment is used to plant a state where it doesn't belong, so here's what they get. I wonder how many decades now it might take for an Israili Jewish to feel safe again sleeping few miles away from Palaetenians Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sir Oberon said: Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? Israel is so much stronger than hamas and also more than any other country in the region because of its culture of learning from every mistake, survival mentality for 75 years and democracy level of development which allows variety of opinions and endless brainstorming. If hamas wants that, it is a suicidal desire. Edited October 22, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Nivsch 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Israel is so much stronger than hamas and also more than any other country in the region because of its culture of learning from every mistake, survival mentality for 75 years and democracy level of development which allows variety of opinions and endless brainstorming. If hamas wants that, it is a suicidal desire. True, at this point Hamas is much weaker technologically at least than Israel, I'm not sure what are they putting they bets on, maybe they thought about negotiating there way out of this with the hostages? yet again they might wanna try even if it looks suicidal at this point, stage red much? Edited October 22, 2023 by GabeN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, GabeN said: @Nivsch True, at this point Hamas is much weaker technologically at least than Israel, I'm not sure what are they putting they bets on, maybe they thought about negotiating there way out of this with the hostages? yet again they might wanna try even if it looks suicidal at this point, stage red much? Jihadists act only out of hatred and to go to paradise, but their leaders are strategists. I would say that the objective is to provoke a great massacre of Palestinians that unites and radicalizes the Islamic world and stop the conversations with the Saudis. one more step in the large-scale jihad by which its leaders live while enjoying luxuries in rich countries, and also earn points to enjoy privileged positions in paradise when they die. According to them, Allah wants this, it is written clearly in the Koran, and disobedience is punishable by hell. Edited October 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
