New War In Israel / Gaza

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, HMD said:

@Breakingthewall God

That is what you believe because you are Muslim and that idea that the Koran is something sacred has penetrated you. It is not difficult, discipline, rituals, and transmission of belief from one person to another, belonging to a community, the feeling of being a good Muslim who is going to go to paradise.

Religion is an infectious virus that makes you hopelessly close off God, since you believe you have already found god. All religions are garbage, and Islam is the most seductive of all garbage, since it makes it easy for you to go to paradise and be a good Muslim, you just have to obey.

[thenondualtankie]

In my opinion it's rather stupid to treat Christianity and Islam as assymmetric. These religions largely fulfil the same purpose and came about due to the same survival incentives.

Both religions have the same ability to be warped in favour of a particular survival agenda. They can both be used to that regard equally. Christianity was used to teach black folk that they are inferior to whites, and that slavery is justified.

Likewise, Islam is used to justify terrorism. But this is because of the survival conditions that these people find themselves in. If you've listened to a single word Leo has said about politics, it's always about SURVIVAL. Survival agenda comes first. The religious justification comes after.

Edited October 12, 2023 by thenondualtankie

[Karmadhi]

23 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Please see also what Lila wrote. Israel actually takes care and hospitalized the terrorists it catches including from the last event! Also they have great condition in the prison they can even get a degree.

Many israelis complain that Israel is TOO humanic to them. This is an extremely common conversation here.

Yes this is true that the occupation of the west bank and the friction with the palestines IS corrupting.

But please be nuanced. Israel is much much more complicated than you think.

Yes and it also killed 2000 palestinians, half civilians in response to 50 of their soldiers being killed in 2014. Such nice humane government they are . It reminds me of Nazi policies during the second world war where for every 1 german soldiers killed by resistance, they killed 100 civilians in response. You see similar numbers here. It is not accident.

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can always treat others in a more humane and better way, but it is difficult to do so with someone who wants your disappearance and hates you on that level. If instead of Israel it had been another Muslim country, they would have solved the problem in a hard way, like Turkey with the Armenians or Iraq with the Kurds.

Well if you take 90 percent of their land what do you expect. See a map of evolution of land between israel and palestine through the decades and you can easily see the colonization slowly happening.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Karmadhi

[PurpleTree]

what if israel bought a piece/peace of land for palestinians in argentina or something? Obviously not happening from both sides but it could be niiice

[HMD]

@Breakingthewall All I hear is “ I am an arrogant person who has never been humbled, I like to make assumptions and generalisations about other people without knowing jacksh*t about them”. 
 

And that’s not how Islam works. You have been brainwashed by God knows whom. Look into wahdat al wajood and ibn al arabi if you want to understand Islam. Or else, stay ignorant and crude.

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall Two kinds of fools, those who take religion literally and those who see no value in it.

Pure religion acknowledges the shared essence of people at the level of depth, organised religion is a system to organise the differences of people at the surface.

Pure religion eludes to life and the transcendental, organised religion eludes to a way of life and the trivial - people usually conflate the two.

Culture and how to organise society isn't religious in the truest sense, its more structural than spiritual. 

Sometimes, structure can provide guard rails to the spiritual, other times it can hinder it. Organised religion done well would be seen for what it is - a tool for psycho spiritual evolution, a map to God realisation but not the territory of God itself. The map isn't the absolute, but just a path to the absolute.

Essence seduces, establishment created around that essence enforces and corrupts the very essence they intend to transmit through their established structures and traditions.

Edited October 12, 2023 by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

 

Well if you take 90 percent of their land what do you expect. See a map of evolution of land between israel and palestine through the decades and you can easily see the colonization slowly happening.

It is not that the Jews arrived one day and conquered Palestine, it is that for 170 years they have been emigrating there, buying land and settling. They were lands that no one wanted, a sterile desert. The serious problem began when they wanted to found a state, and they were attacked by a league of allied countries with the aim of destroying them. If they had not been Jews, but Muslims, they would not have been attacked for that reason. What offends the Arabs is not the appropriation of land. Borders change, wars happen, and then peace returns. but not in this case, since they can never tolerate the fact that they are Jews. They must disappear. It's not comfortable living with neighbors like that.

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Breakingthewall Two kinds of fools, those who take religion literally and those who see no value in it.

Pure religion acknowledges the shared essence of people at the level of depth, organised religion is a system to organise the differences of people at the surface.

Pure religion eludes to life and the transcendental, organised religion eludes to a way of life and the trivial - people usually conflate the two.

Culture and how to organise society isn't religious in the truest sense, its more structural than spiritual. 

Sometimes, structure can provide guard rails to the spiritual, other times it can hinder it. Organised religion done well would be seen for what it is - a tool for psycho spiritual evolution, a map to God realisation but not the territory of God itself. The map isn't the absolute, but just a path to the absolute.

Essence seduces, establishment created around that essence enforces and corrupts the very essence they intent to transmit through their established structures and traditions.

Can i ask you where you from?

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, HMD said:

@Breakingthewall All I hear is “ I am an arrogant person who has never been humbled, I like to make assumptions and generalisations about other people without knowing jacksh*t about them”. 
 

And that’s not how Islam works. You have been brainwashed by God knows whom. Look into wahdat al wajood and ibn al arabi if you want to understand Islam. Or else, stay ignorant and crude.

My mother was Turkish, Muslim who was baptized and became a Christian, which is punishable by death in Islam, in the opinion if most of Muslim authorities. any Muslim has the duty to kill you for doing that. Maybe that's why I know Islam somewhat and see it as something quite violent and negative.

 

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

My mother was Turkish, Muslim who was baptized and became a Christian, which is punishable by death in Islam, in the opinion if most of Muslim authorities. any Muslim has the duty to kill you for doing that. Maybe that's why I know Islam somewhat and see it as something quite violent and negative.

 

Ok that makes sense. Often the people who were muslims and or had bad experiences become the biggest opponents. Which is fair. I’ve seen videos from a guy. He used to be a muslim extremist and then went to jail. Now he is one of the biggest opponents of islam and islamic extremism in europe and says they should be kicked out of europe. He became a christian. He always quotes the quran against muslims in debates/fights. To me growing up non religious all this seems quite silly

[Karmadhi]

6 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Iran is actively invovled in the killings of over 1 million civilians in Syria since 2012.

So is the west and russia. Everyone got involved in that war in 1 way or another.

6 minutes ago, Nabd said:

They also are involves in the mess you see i Iraq today

USA is by far the biggest reason Iraq is a mess today. How many sanctions did USA get when they invaded Iraq? 

Just to be clear, I am not saying Iran is good but that the international community has double standards when the west does something bad compared to non west doing something bad.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Vrubel]

8 minutes ago, Nabd said:

I think there will be alot of questions raised to how Hamas surprised the IDF and Natenyahu will try to prolong this conflict as much as possible to avoid facing the families of the victims.

Yes, Netanayu's days are politically numbered. A good reason for him to prolong this was as much as possible.

[Breakingthewall]

55 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ok that makes sense. Often the people who were muslims and or had bad experiences become the biggest opponents. Which is fair. I’ve seen videos from a guy. He used to be a muslim extremist and then went to jail. Now he is one of the biggest opponents of islam and islamic extremism in europe and says they should be kicked out of europe. He became a christian. He always quotes the quran against muslims in debates/fights. To me growing up non religious all this seems quite silly

Yeah, Anyway, my opinion on Islam is not for personal reasons, I have tried to understand it, I have traveled to several Islamic countries, I have read the Koran, I have met Muslims and be friends with them and my conclusion is that Islam is a disease for the human being. All religions are ultimately false, since they are mental structures. They are necessary for the psychological balance of humans and point to a reality beyond the material, which in some way is real, but of all, Islam is the one that subjects humans the most, castrates their spirit, turns them into a cowardly and submissive beings that can't think by themselves, liars and mean. Christianity can have the same effect, but it's more flexible, allows more freedom , and over all, in the christians countries we are not christian anymore, it has became an option. When in the Muslims countries it became like that, maybe the island could recover the spirit of ibn Arabi, one of the most talented místics ever

Edited October 12, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

Young ben

[zazen]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, Anyway, my opinion on Islam is not for personal reasons, I have tried to understand it, I have traveled to several Islamic countries, I have read the Koran, I have met Muslims and be friends with them and my conclusion is that Islam is a disease for the human being. All religions are ultimately false, since they are mental structures. They are necessary for the psychological balance of humans and point to a reality beyond the material, which in some way is real, but of all, Islam is the one that subjects humans the most, castrates their spirit, turns them into a cowardly and submissive beings that can't think by themselves, liars and mean. Christianity can have the same effect, but it's more flexible, allows more freedom , and over all, in the christians countries we are not christian anymore, it has became an option. When in the Muslims countries it became like that, maybe the island could recover the spirit of ibn Arabi, one of the most talented místics ever

Its true that structures that are too rigid can bring about rebellion, but it's also true that structures that are too loose or even the lack of structure can bring about chaos. 

Those that reflexively go against all structure and wish to deconstruct the structures that failed them, make the mistake of Godifying freedom. And freedom for people who can't handle it are instead destroyed by it. Freedom requires the responsibility of the individual to structure himself rather than borrow the structural guard rails external to him.

Those lacking the disciple of structure and equating freedom with licentiousness undo the glory they think freedom could have brought them. As the saying goes - discipline is freedom.

We can't escape structure, even if we get rid of mental structure we are still beholden to a biological structure that if given in to and lived by alone will lead us to hedonistically destroy ourselves.

It's easy to say religions are false and fictional, and this is true partially - but from a higher understanding we can approach them to see their value also.

Fiction is an ordered art form that triumphs chaos, and that makes the order of a truth that is too chaotic for the logical mind. We could say everything is a fiction or 'maya', but that doesn't mean it has no functional value.

The key is in not ascribing a divine value (Life and Love itself) to things that have functional value (Lifestyles/ways of life and lust). 

The function of lust for example is to pro-create, the value of love is to be one with creation itself. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by zazen

[An young being]

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, Anyway, my opinion on Islam is not for personal reasons, I have tried to understand it, I have traveled to several Islamic countries, I have read the Koran, I have met Muslims and be friends with them and my conclusion is that Islam is a disease for the human being. All religions are ultimately false, since they are mental structures. They are necessary for the psychological balance of humans and point to a reality beyond the material, which in some way is real, but of all, Islam is the one that subjects humans the most, castrates their spirit, turns them into a cowardly and submissive beings that can't think by themselves, liars and mean. Christianity can have the same effect, but it's more flexible, allows more freedom , and over all, in the christians countries we are not christian anymore, it has became an option. When in the Muslims countries it became like that, maybe the island could recover the spirit of ibn Arabi, one of the most talented místics ever

As long as any person from any religion believes religions exist for their welfare and not that they exist for the religion's welfare, all religions are well and good.

[Breakingthewall]

51 minutes ago, Nabd said:

There was a tiktok by a female IDF soldier who served on the wall surrounding Gaza before. She was explaining how not even a pigeon can cross without them noticing.

If somebody have the link please post it.

The matter is very mysterious. This absence of surveillance on the border seems impossible, especially with a rave with thousands of people nearby. But on the other hand, how can Hamas plan an attack knowing that not even a pigeon crosses? Mossad called him and told him: guys, this day we leave the passage free, you can carry out a massacre, and then we will destroy Gaza. deal? it's very strange

[Breakingthewall]

@zazen  

Look, the thing is simple, if you want to be a Muslim, or a Christian, or worship Satan, perfect, it is your life. The problem is if the government forces you, and if you draw a drawing of Muhammad they kill you. then you live in institutionalized schizophrenia 

But the problem is that the nature of Islam is such that it requires it to be a state religion. freedom is not tolerated

Edited October 12, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@zazen  

Look, the thing is simple, if you want to be a Muslim, or a Christian, or worship Satan, perfect, it is your life. The problem is if the government forces you, and if you draw a drawing of Muhammad they kill you. then you live in institutionalized schizophrenia 

But the problem is that the nature of Islam is such that it requires it to be a state religion. freedom is not tolerated

Je suis charlie ?

it’s not necessarily that islam is the problem, extremists are the problem. But Islam seems to produce many extremists

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Je suis charlie ?

it’s not necessarily that islam is the problem, extremists are the problem. But Islam seems to produce many extremists

1 hour ago, Nabd said:

 

A Dutch politician organized a Muhammad caricature contest (obviously the guy has a 24-hour bodyguard), and for this reason Pakistan threatened to cut off international relations with Holland. At the end the contest was cancelled to avoid a massacre. Institutionalized madness, mandatory schizophrenia. It's so ridiculous that it seems impossible, but it's reality. Pakistan, nuclear power

Edited October 12, 2023 by Breakingthewall