But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Buddha said it. do you know what this is called? Pharisee

Are you interested in a "real" Pharisee story? Which I think is quite likely?

The historical Buddha probably never existed. Yes, right. His story (hagiography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagiography), is pretty much the same as the founder of Jainism. I think that this version is very likely.

Crowley, Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana

"It is customary to assume that the Buddha was a historical character (even iconoclasts like Trevor Ling do not question his historicity) but parallels with non-Buddhist systems raise a suspicion that this may not be so. It is no longer believed that there was an ancient Greek poet called Homer who composed the Iliad and Odyssey. These “Homeric” epics are now understood to be compiled and refined from the compositions of many individual storytellers. Might not the teachings of “the Buddha” be analogous? Could the teachings also have been an age-old body of wisdom, analogously compiled, refined and imputed to a single, fictitious author? These teachings would have been transmitted orally but eventually, when writing systems arrived, transcribed as suttas. The earliest Buddhist art does not depict the Buddha as a person, but merely in symbolic form. In these so-called “aniconic” images, he may be shown as a parasol, an empty throne, pillar of fire or a pair of footprints. Could this be an acknowledgment that “the Buddha” was not a person in the normal meaning of the word?

There is a strange feature of the Buddha’s biography which rarely receives comment and that is its similarity to the life of Vardhaman. Also known as Mahāvira (literally, “great man”), Vardhaman was son of a king, born with the 32 major and minor signs of his body. His father, the king, consulted wise men who foretold that he was destined to become a world-ruling emperor or a great spiritual leader. The wise men advise the king that to prevent him becoming a great sage, he must keep his son distracted with amusements. This the king does until, as an adult, Vardhaman escapes from the palace, meditates in the forest and achieves enlightenment. He teaches a non-Vedic path which, he says, is called Jainism. Anyone who knows the life of the Buddha will recognize all this as the same story. Even so, I have left out a lot of parallels such as identical personal names of characters in the biographies. Buddhism and Jainism also share many of the same symbols (e.g. a pair of footprints, the parasol, the cow hoofprint or nandi-pada, and the “śrivatsa” symbol). Curiously, many of these symbols are also found on Indus Valley seals."

Interesting conincidence, hm? Like Christianity and Mithraism (For that, see Brian Muraresku or Carl Ruck)...

And for the Buddhists: Anyway, lets get the copycats with the icepicks.... ( :

And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1...  . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all.

Anyway, I am not going to convince anybody by logic. And until the suffering stops, one will keep walking ones path, by definition. So just continue practicing in whatever way one resonates with (5 MeO, meditation, whatever), and stay open... Bon voyage!

How one gets to Enlightenment: I am very open to all paths. But I have never seen one psychedelic-afficionado who did this without further practices. Could be that there are, but I am not aware of one. If anybody knows someone, let me know. On the other side, I know quite some who are enlightened (not the n+1, the real thing).

So lets just continue watching the show evolving here, and lets see if its happy ever after, or continued however one wants to call it.

Water by the River 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1...  . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all.

In this very moment my suffering is zero. Am I enlightened? Right now I am truly aware that I am infinite, the separation between me and experience is zero. let's say there is no me, or everything is me, is the same. am i enlightened? to what point? completely? no, I am simply at a high level of consciousness, in which I realize that there is obviously no separation between anything, that this experience that is happening is completely direct, completely unlimited, that is, infinite, and therefore it is the total existence, the absolute, and everything is contained in it. since absolutely everything is infinite. But if tomorrow they tell me that my business is broken, they also have to amputate my penis and they deport me to North Korea, my level of consciousness will get down, to the survival point, and I will suffer. And?

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

depends when you draw the line

The line is: do you want to realize the truth, or not? 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I think that deep down everyone is seeking the same, which is the truth, but some people just haven't realized it yet, confusing their thoughts, feelings and desires for truth. So I don't think it's really as much of a division as it's people being at different stages of their journey.

What is untruthful about thoughts, feelings, and desires?

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@Yimpa There is nothing wrong with them, it's just that they're limited manifestations of truth, so I feel like you shouldn't limit yourself to them either. Truth is best appreciated for the sake of truth and if you limit yourself to, for example, your feelings you might never be able to appreciate it because it might not feel good initially.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, itsadistraction said:

I posted this entire post in the immaturity examples mega thread check it out ? it's definitely a mindfuck

Oh wow, I was considering doing that a couple days ago. 

Thanks!

[SOUL]

In a world where one trusts it is truth that alien insanity is real and actual life isn't real, people will endlessly argue about things that that take place in their imagination. /movietrailervoice

[OldManCorcoran]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Exactly. My question had a trick... 

It depends when you draw the line. If you guys want infinity so much (the other "minor" limited pleasures are not of interest for you), then you guys should have gone to a cave or an ashram already. Yet, you guys are here, in the material game. 

Why? 

Having said that, is not even fair that you guys reduce everything to your infinity experiences and everything else.

Some of you guys think that you have seen it all with psychedelic peaks. And indeed I could say that if one could resign from material life, probably what a psychedelic or 5-meo peak offers is the best peak.

But if still playing in the material game, then there are states of consciousness to be really at ease and at peace *while playing the material game.

So my question is, why rejecting this. At the end of the day, 99% of humanity is seeking this states, just in unconscious ways: sex, smoking, speeding the bike at 200km/h, etc...

So unless you guys are special, or you guys are bullshitting in some way...

What is the biker seeking throttling to 250km/h? The same the monk is seeking! Total intensity, time collapses, dissolution of body.

There might not be a conscious recognition like in a 5-Meo trip, but the seeking of breaking the bondage is there. Everyone is going after it.

There is a WHOLE universe of states between sober lame anxious state of consciousness Vs Peak Infinity total liberation. If still playing the material game and not wanting to go to a cave yet, you might as well know how to bliss yourself while doing normal stuff. (But not speeding, that would be also an unconscious way)

 

As you pointed out earlier... I can't help but notice the amount of "muh feels" in posts by people seeking enlightenment. Seems so much focus is on being "blissful" or "escaping suffering" for people who turn to weird spiritual paths out of desperation to get away from extreme pain and mental illness.

There are some people who have top tier lives here. There's an intellectual drive to discover what reality is, too. That approach is going to be very different because those people simply do not care at all about emotions or suffering. They are content as they are.

I experimented with psychedelic drugs through curiosity alone, and out of the many experiments encountered something real and genuine which I was not expecting (in total ego death). All this following is trying to understand or verify what happened to me.

[Javfly33]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

The line is: do you want to realize the truth, or not? 

I don't know what is Truth. So I can't say if I want to realize it or not, since I don't even know what it is.

After some time I completely changed my focus in spirituality, I stopped trying to achieve any object of knowing, that being the so called "enlightment" or "spirituality". Maybe I was not spirituality gifted, and this Truth is possible for other beings, but I'm not interested.

Something as enlightement or truth I have never seen or met, except the ego or mind, trying to say that "THAT" is truth or enlightment. But that is a trick I have seen too much times and I don't fall anymore. Careful with the mind and is obsession to try to "grasp" reality.

I just know states of being. 

There are better states of being and worse. As a human, I seek higher and higher states of being. I don't feel guilty for this, just really smart for having realized this lol. All humans are doing this, the question is are you using the right tools or not, are you doing in conscious ways (directly activating consciousness-intelligence) or compulsively (sex, drugs, experiences). Etc.

 

6 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

 

There are some people who have top tier lives here. There's an intellectual drive to discover what reality is, too. That approach is going to be very different because those people simply do not care at all about emotions or suffering. They are content as they are.

 

The thing is, top material life does not necessarily mean ACTUAL Exuberance/Joyful experience of life.

A homeless in L.A. that just injected Heroin is having a more Top experience of life during the next 30minutes than most TOP CEO's in the world.

This is not to tell go become homeless and drug addict. This is just to say, that you telling me they have great material achievements doesn't tell me a lot.

Well, it tells me that they are at a certain baseline, and I applaud that. But chances are, they haven't touched certain intense blissful and relaxation states, then they would not be typing in a forum with such complacency about their state of consciousness. Once you touch Gold you won't ever say "I'm Ok with Bronze!". Impossible. 

You guys can't just talk about Blissfulness if you haven't had a true experience of feeling a King within your own skin and mind. And, psychedelics are not the usual chemicals that can give you a peak into this "Feeling Like a King" states of consciousness, unfortunately (but they can definitely provide Euphoria and is certain Loving/Release states that also are very good of course) And no, this is not exclusive to drugs. I have verified and lived this states with and without drugs. In fact I encourage always people to have faith that sober methods are more powerful than people think.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Javfly33

[Anon212]

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

[OldManCorcoran]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The thing is, top material life does not necessarily mean ACTUAL Exuberance/Joyful experience of life.

A homeless in L.A. that just injected Heroin is having a more Top experience of life during the next 30minutes than most TOP CEO's in the world.

This is not to tell go become homeless and drug addict. This is just to say, that you telling me they have great material achievements doesn't tell me a lot.

Well, it tells me that they are at a certain baseline, and I applaud that. But chances are, they haven't touched certain intense blissful and relaxation states, then they would not be typing in a forum with such complacency about their state of consciousness. Once you touch Gold you won't ever say "I'm Ok with Bronze!". Impossible. 

You guys can't just talk about Blissfulness if you haven't had a true experience of feeling a King within your own skin and mind. And, psychedelics are not the usual chemicals that can give you a peak into this "Feeling Like a King" states of consciousness, unfortunately (but they can definitely provide Euphoria and is certain Loving/Release states that also are very good of course) And no, this is not exclusive to drugs. I have verified and lived this states with and without drugs. In fact I encourage always people to have faith that sober methods are more powerful than people think.

Exactly as I am right now, I don't want for anything.

I actually think neutral contentment is the most pleasant feeling. When I was 14 there was a point I recall where I was in the car with my mom driving and I was just overcome with a total, absolute, contentment for some reason, and blurted out "I'm so happy". It didn't feel euphoric or necessarily joyous, I just felt perfect. I recall that specific random event all these years later.

Right now I feel completely content. I am not worried about anything, I have everything I need, I am comfortable. I am absolutely content exactly as I am. I don't care about gold or platinum or whatever else, I don't want anything different than what is happening right now.

[VoidJumper]

Been rereading Jed McKenna. Here is a quote from Damndest. Do with it whatever you will:

 

Chris has his hand firmly on the tiller of his life. He's in control. He's making the decisions and he's determining his own fate. Captain of his own destiny may be how he thinks of it—his own man. If I were some revered master in Japan, Chris is one of those guys who would slave in the kitchen for ten years without ever speaking with me. If I taught with results in mind, Chris would never even be allowed to open a book or converse on spiritual matters until we pried his hands off the tiller. Rigid ego can scuttle the ship before it gets clear of the harbor. I've watched much smarter people than myself, much braver people than myself, break their ships fatally on the rocks because they were too full of themselves to release control. This stuff isn't about brains and balls, it's about desire and flow and purity of intent.

 

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

This stuff isn't about brains and balls, it's about desire and flow and purity of intent.

 

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

Without brain and balls, nothing to do in spirituality. Desire, flow and purity, surrender , of course it's essential 

[PurpleTree]

9 hours ago, Anon212 said:

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

And why do you believe that? Where is the proof

[Yimpa]

10 hours ago, Anon212 said:

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

49 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And why do you believe that? Where is the proof

It’s in the pudding. 

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Exactly as I am right now, I don't want for anything.

I actually think neutral contentment is the most pleasant feeling. When I was 14 there was a point I recall where I was in the car with my mom driving and I was just overcome with a total, absolute, contentment for some reason, and blurted out "I'm so happy". It didn't feel euphoric or necessarily joyous, I just felt perfect. I recall that specific random event all these years later.

Right now I feel completely content. I am not worried about anything, I have everything I need, I am comfortable. I am absolutely content exactly as I am. I don't care about gold or platinum or whatever else, I don't want anything different than what is happening right now.

Then I won't be the one to spoil your contentment of course.

I can't relate, because in my experience EVERYTHING has been a state of consciousness/state of being, so that which is Unlimited always seeks the most pure unbounded state of Being/Consciousness. 

Unlimited Being does not like bounds. 

In spirituality we start by letting go of mental and psychological bounds, but there is a still a big bound: Physicality (or the belief of it). 

Is great that you are content and very comfortable where you are.

However my theory is, every move your fingers made today to type your reply, was with the same motive all beings are doing every act: To move closer and closer to that state of no Limits, of No Bounds. 

And I would bet also, all those words (I am comfortable, I am content) is something that the mind and ego says, not YOU.

YOU will always want the Platinum. Because Platinum wants Platinum, not Bronce. Truth wants Truth, not half Truth.

But that is my opinion, I definetely don't want to downplay any type of comfortable life you have worked or stabilise yourself into it. That's good. But I bet, you won't be stopping there. Is just a bet, I could be wrong  

Edited July 19, 2023 by Javfly33

[Christoph Werner]

@Leo Gura Is the intelligence of alien consciousness higher that the intelligence of formless consciousness?

Will there be any free content on alien consciousness?

Is alien consciousness a higher teaching than love?

How much love do you experience in your day to day life as a human? 

How important is it to awaken to a point where love becomes your baseline experience of life and did you achieve that, and if not, why not?