A question about stage yellow in spiral dynamics

[Mileyofpink]

Hi Leo, in my understanding stage yellow means radical open-mindedness but not without radical forgiveness. 

But you mentioned that not everything is solved with love and peace and that's something stage green struggles with. They are too right brain. 

So, my question is should i work on absolutely and completely forgiving the people who have caused such ugliness, dirtiness and wreck in my life? Or is that too idealistic?

[Samsonov]

Hey, I feel that forgiving it always the way. You do it for yourself and not the other person. That doesn't mean you should expect the other person to change, you should forgive, which can feel a lot like forgetting about the other person and let them go. If that means cutting them off from your life so be it, but forgive them with love and empathy. That's my advice

[caspex]

Yes Yellow contains radical forgiveness and the statement that "love and peace can't solve everything" does not contradict it. This is because 'love and peace' in this context is used to refer to what Green would call love and peace. But the version of love and peace of Green is very biased and their viewpoint lack a lot of nuance as compared to Yellow. This is also why they cannot truly forgive 'evil' people, while Yellow can.

[WonderSeeker]

8 hours ago, Mileyofpink said:

So, my question is should i work on absolutely and completely forgiving the people who have caused such ugliness, dirtiness and wreck in my life? Or is that too idealistic?

You gotta understand that a lot of the ugliness that the world produces is systemically-created. 

Green sort of understands this with their notions of 'systemic racism' and the like. But they don't take it's implications far enough, nor do they have enough perspective to see that a lot of issues are individual/group egos fighting with each other up-and-down a chain of human worldviews, and that the only way to eradicate these at their root is to raise the consciousness of all these people to Tier II.

A task that yellow is sympathetic toward, because the yellow person understands that raising ones (and especially others!) consciousness is so goddamn difficult, both in theory and in personal experience. So what you want to do is to forgive the evil people, and hold them accountable as well.

Here's what I mean:

• existensional acceptance = forgive the existence of the being/group's bad behavior and their ignorance that caused it (they just didn't have enough perspective)
• practical non-acceptance = in practice, we want to hold the being/group accountable (place limits/boundaries on them until they grow to be trusted and re-integrated into your life or society)

It's like a mix of blue law and green sympathy. Yellow integrates them.

And in your specific case if these people do not change, cut them off from your life entirely. And if you're never going to see them again anyways, then you might have some trauma work to do if you have scars.

[SeaMonster]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:27 AM, Mileyofpink said:

So, my question is should i work on absolutely and completely forgiving the people who have caused such ugliness, dirtiness and wreck in my life? Or is that too idealistic?

Firstly, you should shitcan the Spiral Dynamics model as it applies to this particular issue in your life.  It adds unnecessary complexity.

Secondly, realize that this issue for you is keeping your mind focused on the past, as opposed to the future - in other words, who you were as opposed to who you can be.

If you merely accept that who you are is a result of many things that happened to you over your life, but who you will be can be a different person based on your own behavioral alterations, then whatever happened in the past need not be a problem for you.

[Mileyofpink]

@SeaMonster Thank you for the insight

[Mileyofpink]

@WonderSeeker "It's like a mix of blue law and green sympathy. Yellow integrates them" Loved this viewpoint

[An young being]

You can be compassionate towards a person and still kill him for the welfare of the society.

[Leo Gura]

On 7/10/2023 at 2:27 AM, Mileyofpink said:

stage yellow means radical open-mindedness but not without radical forgiveness. 

That's not really the core of Stage Yellow. I suggest you read the chapter on Yellow from the Spiral Dynamics book.

Quote

So, my question is should i work on absolutely and completely forgiving the people who have caused such ugliness, dirtiness and wreck in my life? Or is that too idealistic?

Forgiving people who hurt you is a great idea simply because it will make you feel better.

But do not mistake forgiveness for tolerating continued abused. Do not forgive people if they keep on abusing you and refuse to change.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[StarStruck]

Others aren’t more important than you 

[BlueOak]

Focusing on systems or the whole, as much as you can model or work with, and it's not going to be so personal. Unless you take the time to engage the green part of you from time to time, which is essential but also because you are growing out of it, it is naturally something you are going to want to get away from. When you start to accept all the factors, pressures, personalities, and stages that influence everything, they'll be less to forgive,

I get that sometimes its really hard with those close to you, or something that has caused you acute suffering, but you'll just accept that is how it is. That's the unfortunate downside, you are not going to care as much, and logic is going to become paramount, but this also opens you up to alternative viewpoints the moment someone shows you something that is more life-enhancing or more logical. The value of having that suffering, for me personally, is the suffering reminds me of what others experience daily with the way their values/beliefs shape their intake of the world.

I wish I could drop my obsession with method and system so I could progress spiritually, which I seem to have completely dropped, but perhaps its necessary until I get rid of some of the lower stages' absolute grip on things like my financial life, (or accept them more).

Edited November 29, 2023 by BlueOak

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Why have you stopped making videos?

[An young being]

16 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Why have you stopped making videos?

Here comes the most popular question of the month.

[An young being]

54 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Of the year.

Nice. Been out of touch with the forum for quite a while, didn't notice that.

[Ramanujan]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:57 PM, Mileyofpink said:

So, my question is should i work on absolutely and completely forgiving the people who have caused such ugliness, dirtiness and wreck in my life? Or is that too idealistic?

when u reach stage yellow u will realize that violence is unavoidable and stage green is too childish .

if u are asking for practical advice, u should not focus on revenge as revenge is a waste of time

[Davino]

@Mileyofpink You forgive for your own sake not for others