My biggest obstacle in Psychedelics and Spirituality is Fear of Insanity

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

1. Execute Yogasadhana BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER, while never leaving one's Asana.

[Leo Gura]

What I said here doesn't contradict in any way my warnings to use psychedelics carefully.

But not so carefully that you are afraid of facing a little insanity. If you are doing psychedelics and pursuing AWAKENING and you think you can avoid the facing of insanity you are kidding yourself. In that case you better just stop.

Unlike most gurus I am being very direct with you about what it will take to AWAKEN. So you can decide ahead of time if it's something you really want to pursue. If you are not excited at least a bit by the prospect of experiencing insanity then you don't have the proper attitude for spiritual work. Your priorities are wrong. You have to want to step out of your mental comfort zone.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

4 hours ago, Davino said:

It's experiencing temporary insanity what really freaks me out

I experienced temporary insanity on my first acid trip, I started shouting and crying and I wasn't in control, I watched everything happening from a seat back there and I got pretty delusional. I perceived a fireplace as hell itself, I saw my mother and father as rapists, and I thought Leo at some point will open the door and come out from nowhere. It was a difficult experience but not that difficult except that I was living with my family and I scared the shit out of them.

[Pheonix]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

To me what you're saying is very important. I'm not addressing whether Leo is right or wrong in his response because Idk. I'm staying away from that, but what I will say, is your response to him sounds good on the surface and shows caring for how Leo responds to questions on the forum and the advice he gives in relation to how his forum following receive and implements those said advice. However, when you boldly make the claim that EVERYONE on the forum WILL take his advice whether directed to them or not is not a true statement and sounds "cult like". This is not a cult, and not everyone will take his advice and implement them. I'm not saying he doesn't give good and sound advice, what I'm saying is, remarks like that insinuates that we don't know how to think for ourselves, and maybe that is true for some but not for all. It is very important for me to say to you that I'm not trying to tell you how to respond to anyone and how you SHOULD express yourself however you choose, but what I can do is make the suggestion to you that it would probably be more effective and sound advice to say to us, not leo, in respect to the original advice he gave about the insanity issue for us not to take every advice from Leo and implement them because sometimes he can be wrong and for us to  think about them ourselves and to use proper judgment in how we take advice from others because sometimes they may not be suited for everyone and may be applicable for some depending on your state of being and level of understanding and consciousness. Yes, he does have a responsibility and should be wary, as you say, for the advice he gives, but we also have a responsibility to teach ourselves how to think and to make decisions for ourselves because in the end it all lies on us to obtain the results we want to achieve. Personally, I do respect and listen to most of Leo's advice on certain issues, not all, because there are other areas of life and other people I can turn to if I believe they're more suitable for me in regards to advice I may need to help in my own decision making. To me, Leo is a genius, but then he's also human, even though he claims to not be and is now an alien. Don't quote me on that, though.

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response. I must admit in retrospect I wasn’t very careful with my words, I didn’t intend a blanket statement of all forum users rather it was aimed at the significant proportion of users that clearly are unbalanced and at risk of a psychotic episode.

Up until now I have only been an observer of this forum and please Leo if you read this do know that you have changed my life, I adore your work and I’ve followed your content for many years now.

however recently there has been a lot of talk of insanity, alien consciousness and alien insanity and Leo seems to be drumming up excitement around these ideas. 
 

Leo is a veteran user of these substances and I assume that most people that read this forum are not. Even Leo has quoted in the past that he was awake at night suffering from multiple alien awakenings, how many people here are going to have the mental resilience to handle that without it negatively affecting there lives?
 

there is nothing fun or to be gained from insanity, I’m a mental health professional and I see people frequently that have been triggered by recreational drugs into psychotic episode and yes this includes psychedelic use. 
 

again I apologise if I offended anyone here it’s just if even one person here ruins there whole life by triggering a latent mental illness and that could be avoided then surely any offence caused pales in comparison in severity to the life that’s been ruined.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pheonix
Typo

[Juan]

I’ve been trough insanity on ayahuasca, losing fully control of myself that it looked literally like a exorcism, people were worried about me but they helped a friking ton. What I can said after that experience is that you first need to feel confortable and 100% safe where you’re tripping in order to let go completely, 0% chance you could get harm in any way (I think Leo mentions this on his how to trip video).  After that experience, I feel now I want to do deeper trips without worrying how crazy I would look on the outside, I’m ok now with screaming if necessary and moving crazy on the floor. Before the experience that was a thought I had, of “try to not lose your shit Juan or try not to look crazy or scare people on the ceremony”, and that’s what I confronted at the end, aside of other stuff I was dealing with at that time of course. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Juan

[Federico del pueblo]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

I have 0 fear of becoming clinically insane I'm very stable and happy in my life. It's experiencing temporary insanity what really freaks me out.

How many trips have you already had? How many of them were on lsd more or less? And after how many have you had your 1. awakening?

I can only tell you that when I experienced fear of going insane during trips I tried to simply embrace it and be like "so be it...".

I think this is actually what makes it least like to go insane. There's nothing for you to do anyway, you can't control so just let go...

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Pheonix said:

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response. I must admit in retrospect I wasn’t very careful with my words, I didn’t intend a blanket statement of all forum users rather it was aimed at the significant proportion of users that clearly are unbalanced and at risk of a psychotic episode.

Up until now I have only been an observer of this forum and please Leo if you read this do know that you have changed my life, I adore your work and I’ve followed your content for many years now.

however recently there has been a lot of talk of insanity, alien consciousness and alien insanity and Leo seems to be drumming up excitement around these ideas. 
 

Leo is a veteran user of these substances and I assume that most people that read this forum are not. Even Leo has quoted in the past that he was awake at night suffering from multiple alien awakenings, how many people here are going to have the mental resilience to handle that without it negatively affecting there lives?
 

there is nothing fun or to be gained from insanity, I’m a mental health professional and I see people frequently that have been triggered by recreational drugs into psychotic episode and yes this includes psychedelic use. 
 

again I apologise if I offended anyone here it’s just if even one person here ruins there whole life by triggering a latent mental illness and that could be avoided then surely any offence caused pales in comparison in severity to the life that’s been ruined.

 

 

Thank you for understanding what I was saying, and I have also personally met someone who ended up in the hospital because of misuse of phychedelics. I also recognize that a lot of us here on the forum do respond to posts from a perspective of having the experience of whatever the post is about, so I try to be careful in how I frame my responses so I don't purposely offend anyone while still trying to get my point across; and usually if someone brings to my attention that they feel I'm wrong about something or they don't agree, I will take a step back and re-evaluate what I said because I'm aware that I'm still learning about life and maybe I can learn something from their evaluation of my POV. I joke a lot on here and sometimes make silly remarks, but I do take this forum, its members and my reasons for actively participating seriously, and I too was just an observer of the blog for app. 2yrs before deciding to actively participate in it which I have no regrets doing. Thank you again for realizing my point, and I do understand where you're coming from, and because I always love it when something has been brought to my attention that maybe I wasn't aware of, where I could possibly grow from and change my perspective, I never hesitate to do the same, because one of the things I've learnt in life is, people will act defensively on the spot, but if the criticism was made from love and from good intent, they will reflect on it somewhere down the line and it could possibly have the potential to positively change, not only their lives, but the lives of the people they come in contact with because were all one and everything is entangled within everything else. Thank you for your service as a mental health professional, as it is so needed in our society today.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

I am 100% Insane. I love when Leo has insights matching my experience. Imagine me writing that a year ago. Everyone would gaslight and say "bro chill, you need a break". 

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Pheonix said:

there is nothing fun or to be gained from insanity, I’m a mental health professional and I see people frequently that have been triggered by recreational drugs into psychotic episode and yes this includes psychedelic use. 

From my experience, it’s exceptionally rare for a mental health professional to also be experienced with spirituality. 

I’m fortunate enough to have worked with a couple of them. 

Unfortunately, this is where Leo makes a valid point when communicating the dangers of science. A lot of what’s going on in the mental health field only focuses on the psychology mind, which is a big shame. 

Thankfully, psychedelics are becoming more accepted in the scientific and mental health domains, so there is hope for the future. For now, you do make some valid points.  

[Pheonix]

18 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

From my experience, it’s exceptionally rare for a mental health professional to also be experienced with spirituality. 

I’m fortunate enough to have worked with a couple of them. 

Unfortunately, this is where Leo makes a valid point when communicating the dangers of science. A lot of what’s going on in the mental health field only focuses on the psychology mind, which is a big shame. 

Thankfully, psychedelics are becoming more accepted in the scientific and mental health domains, so there is hope for the future. For now, you do make some valid points.  

Why would you assume that I know nothing of spirituality? I’m a follower of Leo’s work just like you. 
You think being a mental health professional makes me a scientist? What gives you that idea?

Psychedelics used responsibly under the direction of a physician for a therapeutic benefit is not the same in anyway as chasing states of “insanity”, this needs to be understood.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pheonix
Typo

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Pheonix said:

Why would you assume that I know nothing of spirituality? I’m a follower of Leo’s work just like you. 
You think being a mental health professional makes me a scientist? What gives you that idea?

You tell me, you’re the mental health professional after all 

 Maybe I’m just deluded, heh.

6 minutes ago, Pheonix said:

Psychedelics used responsibly under the direction of a physician for a therapeutic benefit is not the same in anyway as chasing states of “insanity”, this needs to be understood.

Leo posted this insight today. I’d love to hear your thoughts about it.

Also, I don’t recall anybody claiming that chasing states of “insanity” is the goal. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[Pheonix]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You tell me, you’re the mental health professional after all 

 Maybe I’m just deluded, heh.

Leo posted this insight today. I’d love to hear your thoughts about it.

Also, I don’t recall anybody claiming that chasing states of “insanity” is the goal. Where did you get that idea from?

 

I have done a lot of time contemplating the nature of reality and yes I absolutely believe what Leo says is accurate about the nature of reality which is why I so closely follow his work. I haven’t had any direct experience of it but conceptually it makes perfect sense to me.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Pheonix said:

I have done a lot of time contemplating the nature of reality and yes I absolutely believe what Leo says is accurate about the nature of reality which is why I so closely follow his work. I haven’t had any direct experience of it but conceptually it makes perfect sense to me.

I’d be careful with believing, no matter how absolutely convinced you are about it. I used to believe a bunch of stupid stuff, and my mind was very good at propagating those beliefs. I still have many beliefs that keep me stuck, but they don’t have a grip on my life as much as they used to.

If anything, you’ll actually be in disbelief when you have your first awakening experience. Consider it a true test to see if you’re actually willing to take this seriously or if you’re just fooling yourself.

[Psychic]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are not excited at least a bit by the prospect of experiencing insanity then you don't have the proper attitude for spiritual work.

Are your insanities sometimes blissful?
 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Psychic said:

Are your insanities sometimes blissful?

No, but fascinating. You can just appreciate the pure weirdness of such states of consciousness. There is a sort of beauty to the madness. You can play a sort of game where you challenge yourself to see how weird your consciousness can go.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ItsNick]

@Leo Gura Is it similar to being mindfucked by a paradox or strange loop? Not being able to make sense of it and yet witnessing it?

[thenondualtankie]

I imagine it's more to do with what's real and what's not. The more you lose your grip on this distinction, the more insane you are.

[Davino]

5 hours ago, Yimpa said:

No.

YOU are imagining all of that.

WAKE UP!

I feel your good intentions but I think you are a bit naive in the way you are trying to help me. At least it's not an approach that has resonated with me, this tools of using the absolute to solve the relative gets obsolete after some time.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are doing psychedelics and pursuing AWAKENING and you think you can avoid the facing of insanity you are kidding yourself. In that case you better just stop.

Yes, I came to the same conclusions that's why I decided to make this post to see how can I better deal with it.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are not excited at least a bit by the prospect of experiencing insanity then you don't have the proper attitude for spiritual work. Your priorities are wrong. You have to want to step out of your mental comfort zone.

 I'm curious and more open about letting go after contemplating insanity. What if I like it? That sentence really opened my mind, maybe it's not what I think it is, I really don't know what it is because I push the brakes when I get close. Maybe there are valuable lessons and insights from losing my mind here and there and when the moment comes just letting go and going with it, stopping resistance and facing the fear and the intensity of the moment. 

I have also been thinking that intensity is also a huge component of insanity. Because I have felt insane in some spontaneous awakenings, once in the street I felt like I was dying in a catharsis but there was some love component and understanding there also. What really triggers me is the combination of insanity with intensity and just the facet of truth and mind with no love component. Insanity is very crude when you don't have the lubricant of Love. I have remembered many moments where there was some insanity but I could deal with it either because it was not that intense or because the loving facet was present.

I think I'm too pushy sometimes with realizing the truth, I chew more than I can eat we could say and I think that is also a huge factor in the equation. I'm gonna go more smooth in my inquary to allow myself to work through the stages instead of just breaking through layer after layer. I'm usually too hungry for the truth and that has sometimes compromised my personal life. I really want to make it to the ultimate truth but I want to do it in the best way possible not just being so obsesed with it that I conterintuitively end up not reaching it.

4 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

I experienced temporary insanity on my first acid trip, I started shouting and crying and I wasn't in control, I watched everything happening from a seat back there and I got pretty delusional. I perceived a fireplace as hell itself, I saw my mother and father as rapists, and I thought Leo at some point will open the door and come out from nowhere. It was a difficult experience but not that difficult except that I was living with my family and I scared the shit out of them.

Yes, that's definetely an aspect of insanity. Another aspect could be going through such intense and profound experiences that I lose my mind in the process.

4 hours ago, Juan said:

What I can said after that experience is that you first need to feel confortable and 100% safe where you’re tripping in order to let go completely, 0% chance you could get harm in any way (I think Leo mentions this on his how to trip video).  After that experience, I feel now I want to do deeper trips without worrying how crazy I would look on the outside, I’m ok now with screaming if necessary and moving crazy on the floor.

Yes, I'll take even more care about my trips from now on, creating an ecosystem so that if insanity comes, it's safe to open up, express and explore. However, if the mystical experience is spontaneous that's a bit harder to deal with but I'm sure that after working through it in controlled environments I'll be able to handle it more.

4 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

How many trips have you already had? How many of them were on lsd more or less? 

Like 20 trips more less. I have tripped three times with LSD. It's funny because they seem very little but how transformative are those experiences? That is beyond numbers.

4 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

And after how many have you had your 1. awakening?

I've been having awakening since I was 12. I remember very sweetly watching: What is Truth? from Leo in covid lockdown. I had such a profound awakening that my whole life changed and finally I could make a bit of sense in my truth seeking. Then, I learnt from him that psychedelics could be very powerful tools. Everytime I trip I have multiple insights, mystical experiences and awakenings. I mean, is it possible to trip without having an awakening? After trying psychedelics with other people that seems to be pretty much the case. I'm still searching for people that feel the same as me when I'm tripping. It appears that while our experiences may have some similarities, they are actually quite far apart.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No, but fascinating. You can just appreciate the pure weirdness of such states of consciousness. There is a sort of beauty to the madness. You can play a sort of game where you challenge yourself to see how weird your consciousness can go.

I share also this magnetic atraction for such states. My partner is sometimes very confunsed when she sees me going through difficult emotional moments and in the midst of it I say, wow how beautiful it is to experience this. There's some beauty of that in the human domain and I suppose the same taste can be acquired for states of consciousness. I can see the beaty in madness but it's like exotic food you need to get used to it.

 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

5 minutes ago, Davino said:

I mean, is it possible to trip without having an awakening?

It's in fact highly possible and even the norm.

That's because most people first need to face a lot of their trauma before awakening. 

Trauma is a separation from love caused by an outside force/circumstances when you were still unable to deal with it. It's like an energetic imprint or branding. When you awaken you will realise that your trauma was just imaginary but until then it contributes to your non-awakening because you can't look beyond the boundaries of your limited trauma-informed reality.

I'll probably need a handful more trips to awaken because when I trip unimaginable amounts of energy come up and I'm twitching, shaking and trembling like a fish on land deprived from oxygen and that seems to not leave room for awakening yet.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, ItsNick said:

@Leo Gura Is it similar to being mindfucked by a paradox or strange loop? Not being able to make sense of it and yet witnessing it?

Sorta, but much more radical and intense. It's like a collapse of your whole reality and mind.

In one of my early mushroom trips I realized how I was a dinosaur and it really fucked me up for a few days.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leo Gura