Non-dual motherfuckers are not saying anything special...

[Rasheed]

I read Sam Harris's book 'Waking Up' and one thing hit me as of right now: Non-dual motherfuckers aka teachers are not saying anything special. Osho, Eckhart Tolle, Zen Masters, Shinzen Young, etc...ain't saying anything special when they are saying that there is no self. 

Seriously, Ken Wilber and Ramana Maharshi ain't saying anything special when they are asking to inquire Who am I? Seriously, what's special about Ramana Maharshi? One does not need to sit in a cave for rest of once's life to realize that there is no self, all sensations are impermanent and dissatisfactory. 

Seriously, when I am writing this, I am conscious of the fact that there is no self and all sensations are impermanent. And then question arises:

- SO FUCKING WHAT, THAT'S IT????????????????????????

These motherfuckers ain't saying anything special. 

That was my impression after reading all these spiritual books and meditating hour after hour and impression after stopping all thought and dualistic conceptualization.

I hope I am wrong and closed-minded. 

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

I hope I am wrong and closed-minded. 

Rest assured that your hope is not misplaced.

Sam Harris is a fool and has no idea what Awakening is. So in that respect you are right.

However a guy like Maharashi is saying something extremely profound.

It's not an issue of no-self, it's an issue of realizing that you are God.

If you want to understand what you're missing, try some 5-MeO-DMT.

P.S. You are also not conscious of the insight of no-self. You have to be very careful with turning these things into concepts, which is the stage you're at.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Rasheed]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rest assured that your hope is not misplaced.

Sam Harris is a fool and has no idea what Awakening is. So in that respect you are right.

However a guy like Maharashi is saying something extremely profound.

It's not an issue of no-self, it's an issue of realizing that you are God.

If you want to understand what you're missing, try some 5-MeO-DMT.

P.S. You are also not conscious of the insight of no-self. You have to be very careful with turning these things into concepts, which is the stage you're at.

Cool. Thanks

Maybe I got no-self realization as a concept...I don't know. basically, when I meditate, I know how to stop thinking, basically all conceptualization stops and then I experience that all sensations are impermanent and there is no self. Is not that what no-self insight about? or I got that wrong as well? 4 hours of meditating per day + mindfulness throughout the day, I still got that wrong somehow...

I definitely should do 5-Meo-DMT.

But as of right now I am not talking about God-Realization, I am discussing non-dual teachings and no-self teachings, that's why I asked. Sam Harris discussing no-self and non-duality as well, not what you call God-realization...He is also familiar with Ramana Maharishi and his self-inquiry...

Edited December 7, 2022 by Rasheed

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

Cool. Thanks

Maybe I got no-self realization as a concept...I don't know. basically, when I meditate, I know how to stop thinking, basically all conceptualization stops and then I experience that all sensations are impermanent and there is no self. Is not that what no-self insight about? or I got that wrong as well? 4 hours of meditating per day + mindfulness throughout the day, I still got that wrong somehow...

That's good, but there are still degrees of no-self realization.

No-self is still pretty profound. It is not to be poo-pooed.

Quote

But as of right now I am not talking about God-Realization, I am discussing non-dual teachings and no-self teachings, that's why I asked. Sam Harris discussing no-self and non-duality as well, not what you call God-realization...He is also familiar with Ramana Maharishi and his self-inquiry...

A) Much of mainstream nonduality is shallow Neo-Advaita stuff.

B) Just because Sam is familiar with Maharshi does not mean he understands the depth of what Maharshi was talking about. Maharshi had some serious God-Realization going on. It wasn't just some tepid no-self insight.

You need to be careful to distinguish all these different teachers. Some of them are shallow, some of them are deep.

Rest assured there is a lot more for you to become conscious of and awaken to. The really good stuff is way ahead for you. Serious Awakening is very special. It's not some tepid insight. No book will convey to you how special it gets.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Rasheed]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's good, but there are still degrees of no-self realization.

No-self is still pretty profound. It is not to be poo-pooed.

A) Much of mainstream nonduality is shallow Neo-Advaita stuff.

B) Just because Sam is familiar with Maharshi does not mean he understands the depth of what Maharshi was talking about. Maharshi had some serious God-Realization going on. It wasn't just some tepid no-self insight.

You need to be careful to distinguish all these different teachers. Some of them are shallow, some of them are deep.

Rest assured there is a lot more for you to become conscious of and awaken to. The really good stuff is way ahead for you. Serious Awakening is very special. It's not some tepid insight.

Yeah, I of course agree that there is so much more to become conscious of and awaken to, but I am talking about non-dual teachers and no-self insight. 

Ramana lived in a cave for all his life...All of this makes me think, what is potential of meditation? Sam Harris himself has done thousands of hours of meditation because he was basically living on retreats, meditating 10+ hours a day 3-6 months in a row. Obviously, he is not Ramana level, living in a cave mystic but at the same time, I don't consider him to be shallow like Oprah Winfrey, Mindvalley spirituality and hippy bear, feel-good spirituality because of the amount of meditation he has done. Of course it is relative but still...

I don't wanna put 10,000 hours into meditation and then realize be like: "That's it? This is it? No-self, and what?" Sam Harris writes exactly about that in his book. 

I agree that my no-self realization is ain't deep enough, I am going to go deeper but still, I can't believe that's it for spirituality and transpersonal psychology. Seriously, there has to be more and I am glad actualized.org is pointing to that because I think this is only resource which does that. 

At the same time, I realized that there is no self but all the same desires, suffering, pain is still there. My relationship to it is different but all those desires of lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy still stays the same. Also, what makes me worried about that is many spiritual gurus are famous for their misconduct which basically tells me they also had those desires even though they realized insight of no-self...Sam Harris writes about that as well. 

Also, I am 100% confident that what you call God-realization is not the same as what non-dual teachers call no-self. That is why I must do 5-MeO to validate that for myself. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Rasheed

[OBEler]

@Rasheed please make a trip report of 5 meo here on forum how it changed your insights about no self. Would be very interesting to hear

4 hours daily Meditation, thats a lot!! 

[caspex]

There are degrees to the no-self insight. Even if you get it, at first it would be pretty worldview-shattering but only for a few moments and you quickly get used to it. You find nothing special about it because it changes nothing, you still suffer, it's just been recontextualized. But overtime the no-self insight gets pretty profound. It starts changing your emotion and even your body as you embody it more and more. Every deeper awakening into just the no-self is as worldview shattering as the last. I don't understand much about God realization so I can't say anything about that. But as far as the first few no-self awakenings go, they are a very foundational building block for going further, even though they seem like nothing special at first. Try having some awakenings using Love and integrating that with no-self and see what happens. You can access bliss just through intensifying you awareness of universal Love, but it's bringing in the no-self insight, that really takes that bliss to the next level.

[Carl-Richard]

No self feels like dying and being born at the same time. It's that level of profound.

[inFlow]

@Rasheed Wasting time with all that "4hour" meditation. Do Kriya. Will save up you time and grow your consciousness way more.

[YogiCosmos]

What Ramana is talking about is no-Self, with a capital S. This is legitimately the Self (i.e. atman, consciousness) falling away. I see other people like Lorn Hoff and David Buckland refer to this as Brahman. Believe their teacher was Maharishi Mahesh.

No-Self, or Brahman, is prior to consciousness. This is called the Great Awakening in the Vedas, but not often written about. Scriptures only go up to the Self. This state is not empty in the sense of empty space. It is pure no-thingness, yet it is completely whole and full. It is also incredibly dry (i.e. lacking bliss) if your nervous system isn’t primed for it.

No-self is the first level of self-realization that the little self, or the ego, is not who you are.

My experience was that in self-realization, I still saw the world as an illusion. That created a subtle duality. When then I realized myself and the world were collapsed into one unity, I still had an egoic sense of “I am the world.” That sense of I is completely obliterated in no-Self. I mean… it’s incredibly dry since there is nothing here.

That is what Ramana is talking about.

Edited December 7, 2022 by YogiCosmos

[Gesundheit2]

@Rasheed I don't care enough to comment on the thread, but I like your signature. It represents me 100%.

[axiom]

@Rasheed Sam Harris doesn't grasp no-self.

Check out Jim Newman's conversation with Sam Harris. It's really good. It shows the clear difference between no-self as it is often described or contextualised and the actual realisation itself which is extremely rare, seemingly.

I consider true no-self to be a far more profound recognition than a full-blown psychedelic mystical experience, although of course the latter is utterly extraordinary.

[Leo Gura]

Sam Harris' atheism, scientism, and rationalism has really trapped his mind. Sam is a really bad example of how to do spirituality. Spirituality cannot work like that, it requires deconstructing your whole conception of reality. You can't just meditate. That's not enough. You have to seriously question.

One of the most important things I have to teach those of you who are serious about Awakening is how many degrees of it there are. No spiritual teacher has taught you this. They have reduced Awakening to a single state of consciousness. This an enormous mistake.

True Awakening is extraordianry, special, magical, and outrageous. It will not leave you disappointed, so don't worry about that.

If you want to see what Consciousness is capable of, you need psychedelics.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura It’s like ?

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to see what Consciousness is capable of, you need psychedelics.

This is true. Psychedelics take you to depths of consciousness that are utterly unimaginable until seen.

No self is completely beyond consciousness, and many miss it - or misunderstand it - because on the face of it, it sounds impossible and incoherent.

Edited December 7, 2022 by axiom

[Inliytened1]

12 hours ago, Rasheed said:

I read Sam Harris's book 'Waking Up' and one thing hit me as of right now: Non-dual motherfuckers aka teachers are not saying anything special. Osho, Eckhart Tolle, Zen Masters, Shinzen Young, etc...ain't saying anything special when they are saying that there is no self. 

Seriously, Ken Wilber and Ramana Maharshi ain't saying anything special when they are asking to inquire Who am I? Seriously, what's special about Ramana Maharshi? One does not need to sit in a cave for rest of once's life to realize that there is no self, all sensations are impermanent and dissatisfactory. 

Seriously, when I am writing this, I am conscious of the fact that there is no self and all sensations are impermanent. And then question arises:

- SO FUCKING WHAT, THAT'S IT????????????????????????

These motherfuckers ain't saying anything special. 

That was my impression after reading all these spiritual books and meditating hour after hour and impression after stopping all thought and dualistic conceptualization.

I hope I am wrong and closed-minded. 

Its the ego playing more games to keep you asleep.   You see, it is through curious self inquiry  that you stumble apon and realize directly that the self is not your true nature.   And that your true nature is pure Awareness.  Trust me, if this hits you, if awakening hits you, you will know what they are talking about - but not conceptually.  It is not special- it is beyond or prior to any human description

Note- many of these individuals may not have even realized it themselves directly.  Pretty sure when Leo put his first enlightenment videos out- they were right on the money (the very first few which included self inquiry)  but he may not have directly awoken to no self yet himself.  

Edited December 7, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

No self is completely beyond consciousness, and many miss it - or misunderstand it - because on the face of it, it sounds impossible and incoherent.

No-self is not beyond consciousness. It is the nature of Consciousness.

[Thought Art]

@ivankiss Is that true?

[Girzo]

I have had one Awakening into no-self.

It's so profound. There is no higher joy that I have ever experienced. You are drowning in Bliss. It's like all of you has been just clothes and you finally strip them. Nothing in your experience changes but everything changes. This not at all like what I have experienced from meditation and I have done retreats. It's way way more radical, I have never seen Sam Harris describing something that awe-inspiring but I haven't consumed much of his content. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Girzo

[Leo Gura]

If Sam Harris was describing an orgasm on meth, he would do it in a way that puts your baby to sleep.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Leo Gura