Russian invasion a disaster, according to Russian soldiers

[vizual]

Lol Russia is even retreating from some cities because the resistance is too heavy. So much for the Russian propagandists'; "this is all part of the plan". Yeah right 

[Galyna]

@vladorion My grandmother lives in Mariupol right now, (I am originally from there) that is occupied by Orсs, (that is how we call russians). So, they had a steady minus Celsius all this month, only in a daytime, the temperature went up to 5C. I know and talked to people on the phone who fled the city. Some people froze to death. We have the same situation in Kharkov. You can check the weather, for God's sake. 

Please stop misleading people on our forum. It wont be tolerated here. Your country is going to fall, just accept the fact and take a responsibility for it. 

Sorry for the hatred. I am trying hard to remain as conscious as I can. It is hard. 

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Galyna

[vladorion]

7 minutes ago, Galyna said:

@vladorion My grandmother lives in Mariupol right now, (I am originally from there) that is occupied by Orсs, (that is how we call russians). So, they had a steady minus Celsius all this month, only in a daytime, the temperature went up to 5C. I know and talked to people on the phone who fled the city. Some people froze to death. We have the same situation in Kharkov. You can check the weather, for God's sake. 

Please stop misleading people on our forum. It wont be tolerated here. Your country is going to fall, just accept the fact and take a responsibility for it. 

Sorry for the hatred. I am trying hard to remain as conscious as I can. It is hard. 

 

I wasn't born in Russia, don't live in Russia, never had Russian citizenship.

Not sure what responsibility you're talking about.

I did check the weather. The weather is quite a bit colder in Mariupol than Nikolaev.

[Ulax]

Today in: My propaganda is better than yours

[Galyna]

29 minutes ago, vladorion said:

I wasn't born in Russia, don't live in Russia, never had Russian citizenship.

Ok, never mind then. 

 

[hello1234]

2 hours ago, vladorion said:

I wasn't born in Russia, don't live in Russia, never had Russian citizenship.

Not sure what responsibility you're talking about.

Lol, doesn’t mean anything. I have a friend who is originally from Belarus, lived in North America since grade 3, and still buys and spreads all the pro-russian propaganda. You don’t need to be born and live in russia per se to support russia 

Edited March 26, 2022 by hello1234

[vladorion]

12 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

Lol, doesn’t mean anything. I have a friend who is originally from Belarus, lived in North America since grade 3, and still buys and spreads all the pro-russian propaganda. You don’t need to be born and live in russia per se to support russia 

Sure. My reply was to "taking responsibility for it".

I don't support Putin. But I also don't buy into the Ukrainian and Western propaganda about Russia and the war in Ukraine. I don't support Zelensky and the Kievan government, NATO and US.

If you think that Russians are brainwashed by their government and media and Ukrainians are not brainwashed by theirs, well, you're mistaken. There are as much propaganda and lies in the Ukrainian media as there are in the Russian media. And the Ukrainian governments acts in the same ways as the Russian government. Just a few days ago, Zelensky banned 3 opposition TV channels. Same thing Russia did a few weeks ago. In 2021, he censored 2 pro-Russian TV channels, He also banned 11 political parties.

Ukraine is pretty much a proxy war between the US and Russia. Except they're fooled into thinking they're fighting for their land and the West is their friend. Yeah, the West is supplying them with more weapons each day so they can fight longer, which means more damage to the country and more people being killed.

[hello1234]

20 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Sure. My reply was to "taking responsibility for it".

I don't support Putin. But I also don't buy into the Ukrainian and Western propaganda about Russia and the war in Ukraine. I don't support Zelensky and the Kievan government, NATO and US.

If you think that Russians are brainwashed by their government and media and Ukrainians are not brainwashed by theirs, well, you're mistaken. There are as much propaganda and lies in the Ukrainian media as there are in the Russian media. And the Ukrainian governments acts in the same ways as the Russian government. Just a few days ago, Zelensky banned 3 opposition TV channels. Same thing Russia did a few weeks ago. In 2021, he censored 2 pro-Russian TV channels, He also banned 11 political parties.

Ukraine is pretty much a proxy war between the US and Russia. Except they're fooled into thinking they're fighting for their land and the West is their friend. Yeah, the West is supplying them with more weapons each day so they can fight longer, which means more damage to the country and more people being killed.

Here is the difference between russia and Ukraine that you need to understand:

Zelensky has been around since 2019, he is actually “new blood” in Ukrainian government. Ukraine is a democratic country, sure our government has issues, but it’s not a dicktator-mafia state like russia or belarus, our leadership has changed multiple times over the years. We’ve had problems with russia way pre-Zelensky. It’s a good thing he banned those parties, that should’ve been done years ago, those are corrupt russian puppets (imo banning them is not enough, they should be sent into prison). We’ve also had russian-backed TV channels that were trying to spread same russian propaganda in Ukraine, surprise-surprise, again, those should’ve been banned years ago.

If you actually open your mind and hear what I am saying for a 1000s time on this forum - a person who actually knows how Ukraine thinks - Ukraine wants nothing to do with russia, Ukraine wants economic opportunities, it wants to get rid of corruption, it does not want to follow the same path to a shithole russia has been on for years. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by hello1234

[vladorion]

1 minute ago, hello1234 said:

Here is the difference between Russia and Ukraine that you need to understand:

If both governments are equally corrupt, it doesn't make that big of a difference.

You change one puppet for another, not much changes for the better.

 

 

[hello1234]

4 minutes ago, vladorion said:

If both governments are equally corrupt, it doesn't make that big of a difference.

You change one puppet for another, not much changes for the better.

 

 

They are absolutely not equally corrupt, that’s a very simplistic and false assumption.
 

Where are you from? 

Edited March 26, 2022 by hello1234

[vladorion]

11 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

Zelensky has been around since 2019, he is actually “new blood” in Ukrainian government. Ukraine is a democratic country, sure our government has issues, but it’s not a dicktator-mafia state like russia or belarus, our leadership has changed multiple times over the years. We’ve had problems with russia way pre-Zelensky. It’s a good thing he banned those parties, that should’ve been done years ago, those are corrupt russian puppets.

If you actually open your mind and hear what I am saying for a 1000s time on this forum - a person who actually knows how Ukraine thinks - Ukraine wants nothing to do with Russia, Ukraine wants economic opportunities, it wants to get rid of corruption, it does not want to follow the same path to a shithole russia has been on for years.

 

Ukraine is a democratic country on paper, not in reality. The only difference is that the dictator-mafia state doesn't have one face like in Russia or Belarus, but is a group of people.

I think the biggest problems with Russia started when a pro-Russia government was overthrown and an anti-Russia government was installed by the West. Of course, people think they did it.

There's no such thing as "how Ukraine thinks". Ukraine is very divided. There are a lot of people who are pro Russia, those who were against Maidan, didn't accept the illegal government and were called 'separatists', bombed, shot at, burned.

[hello1234]

6 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Ukraine is a democratic country on paper, not in reality. The only difference is that the dictator-mafia state doesn't have one face like in Russia or Belarus, but is a group of people.

I think the biggest problems with Russia started when a pro-Russia government was overthrown and an anti-Russia government was installed by the West. Of course, people think they did it.

There's no such thing as "how Ukraine thinks". Ukraine is very divided. There are a lot of people who are pro Russia, those who were against Maidan, didn't accept the illegal government and were called 'separatists', bombed, shot at, burned.

Ok, back to ignoring you, you’re hopelessly lost in Russian propaganda, these vicious lies that cost Ukrainian people many lives.

Edited March 26, 2022 by hello1234

[Danioover9000]

@vladorion

8 hours ago, vladorion said:

If both governments are equally corrupt, it doesn't make that big of a difference.

You change one puppet for another, not much changes for the better.

 

 

   I wouldn't say equally corrupt. Both are corrupt, but one is more corrupt than the other. One is a democratic government, while the other is an authoritarian dictatorship government. Both have made mistakes in history, but both are not equally mistaken.

[Ryan_047]

10 hours ago, vladorion said:

Yeah, the West is supplying them with more weapons each day so they can fight longer, which means more damage to the country and more people being killed.

And what do you suggest they do instead? The West and Ukraine I mean. 

10 hours ago, vladorion said:

There are as much propaganda and lies in the Ukrainian media as there are in the Russian media.

That's too simplistic imo. There are degrees of propaganda and lies. I can assure you, after checking Russian media outlets, that there is way less actual information in the Russian backed media outlets. CNN is not the same as CNBC, nor as Fox or whatever other American media services there are. It matters where the funding comes from and the creative independence the journalists enjoy and how controlled they are (or not) by the leadership of the publication. 

It's up for future historians to determine what in the Russian narrative was propaganda and what in the Ukrainian narrative was propaganda. But seeing the bullshit that comes from the Russian side, I can confidently say that the balance tips more towards Moscow. 

"I think the biggest problems with Russia started when a pro-Russia government was overthrown and an anti-Russia government was installed by the West. Of course, people think they did it."

I'd appreciate some information and sources on this. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ryan_047

[BlueOak]

12 minutes ago, Fearey said:

I would suggest that Ukraine surrenders and let the consequences of that play themselves out. Let Putin have it. What difference does it make?

Then they will live under an occupying force that jails protestors, kills political opponents and makes every day people disappear. 

They don't want the autocracy of Russia, they've made that clear repeatedly. They don't consider themselves Russian. Suffering will happen whatever choice they make. Only now the entire population hates Putin, they don't just not want Russia they actively hate them. Its given them a national identity stronger than ever, and after they've lost so much you think they will just say oh well.

Sadly countries are often made in war. I wish it were not so, but it is. 

I don't know how much evidence people need to show that the population of Ukraine don't want a Russian regime than a month long war with tens of thousands of dead. If the popular revolution that involved much of the country was dismissed as somehow a figment of a western mind, then perhaps this will be enough to show it.

Edited March 26, 2022 by BlueOak

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, Fearey said:

I would suggest that Ukraine surrenders and let the consequences of that play themselves out. Let Putin have it. What difference does it make?

Actually, it's now looking like Russia probably won't be able to take much of Ukraine.

 

[BlueOak]

36 minutes ago, Fearey said:

So basically just a matter of stage blue pride.

The ukrainian government is equally guilty for those deaths, if not more so, doing everything they can to prolong a war they stand no chance in winning.

When will Russia's pride stop them fighting a battle they have no chance of ever winning? Not without 10 times the forces they have currently assembled and a nationwide draft the likes of which it hasn't seen since the USSR. A return to the cold war and possibly war with everyone west of you? What pride is driving Russia to continue to beat their heads against a wall? Or is there more to it than just pride, like with all things?

For Ukraine I see: Fear of death and loss of what they are. Death of identity drives most decisions. Blue Pride and sense of national identity yes. Green Sense of Community and Open Liberal Sentiment. Orange Western Business Models and Individualist Choices. Red thrill for the violence and hatred of Russia. Yellow analysis of the two options compared to each other in relation to their own life, democracy and autocracy. The want for democracy which is orange/green/yellow orientated to have a say in their leadership. Family. Home. Country. Revenge. You name it. It isn't Russia anymore. It evolved to be something different (not better or worse different) This war has completely severed any hope Russia ever had of integrating Ukraine in my lifetime.

Ukraine has every chance of winning it, they've got momentum currently. If winning means keeping their national identity, way of life, personal preference, and values in tact, then yes that. The Russians are held and being pushed back. Can they invade Russia and beat them, of course not. Can they slowly push them out of their territory until they meet  a concentration of force that will hold them. Like after the next Russian draft in April? Perhaps. 

Its perhaps. Perhaps they might take Kherson back for example or the Russian's might hold it. They just lost another LT General there, the commander of the region. I think that makes 7 generals dead for the Russians. They might well encircle the Russians in the north too, they've been capturing more prisoners there of late and are attempting to.

We'll probably get to where we were headed to at the start, some territory given up and a stalemate nobody is happy with.

Edited March 26, 2022 by BlueOak

[vizual]

1 hour ago, Fearey said:

So basically just a matter of stage blue pride.

The ukrainian government is equally guilty for those deaths, if not more so, doing everything they can to prolong a war they stand no chance in winning.

Nice victim blaming there, moron

[Arcangelo]

6 hours ago, Fearey said:

prolong a war they stand no chance in winning.

You don't know that.

[Ryan_047]

12 hours ago, Fearey said:

I would suggest that Ukraine surrenders and let the consequences of that play themselves out. Let Putin have it. What difference does it make?

So if I broke into your house and abused your wife, you would just surrender and let the consequences play out? What difference does it make if your wife misses an arm and an eye? Let me have it! 

Some people here don't know what war is or how hatred works. What you are suggesting is absent of logic. If it were by me, all fighting would stop tomorrow, but don't expect that the hate the Ukrainians are feeling would just disappear if Zelensky surrendered its entire country. Very quickly afterwards militias would form and continue the fighting, but without a central command. 

I had the exact same argument with someone else when the invasion started... You can't expect Ukraine to surrender to Russia just because you want to monkey stage yellow/turquoise or have a hidden pro Russian nationalistic agenda.