I asked Rupert Spira directly about solipsism - here is what he said

[Shambhu]

@GreenWoods It appears to me that is  conflating mind with consciousness.  If something is absolute, it cannot become more or less absolute.  The mind has states.  Consciousness is that to which states appear.

[GreenWoods]

20 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

@GreenWoods It appears to me that is  conflating mind with consciousness.  If something is absolute, it cannot become more or less absolute.  The mind has states.  Consciousness is that to which states appear.

From the absolute perspective, yes, it's just Consciousness.

But from the relative perspective, we can differentiate between high vs low states of consciousness. 

 

It's not states of mind though. States of consciousness refers to the degrees of Self-Consciousness and hence also Self-Understanding.

[Shambhu]

@GreenWoods

4 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

It's not states of mind though. States of consciousness refers to the degrees of Self-Consciousness and hence also Self-Understanding.

I understand that the only disagreement is probably in the use of language, but saying "Self-Consciousness" is like when people order a "chai tea." ? The two words are synonymous.  Yes, I understand what is trying to be said, but it still not precise.  Understanding is a function of the mind, and that appears to Consciousness.  You can have greater or lesser understanding, knowledge, or even realizations, but not Consciousness.

[Batman]

42 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

@GreenWoods It appears to me that is  conflating mind with consciousness.  If something is absolute, it cannot become more or less absolute.  The mind has states.  Consciousness is that to which states appear.

I understand your consideration, which I shared as well. But it is revealed that there are different "depths" to how Conscious you can become of your nature. Awakening can go "balls deep" (the mind being "Fully Blown"), and it can also be "teasing" or "arousing" (like "glimpse" or "kensho"). It does sound strange because Consciousness is Absolute, nevertheless awakening can be shallow or deep. Since trying to represent awakening in any way will be a misrepresentation, explaining the possible depth of it is all the more futile. The only way to go about this is to awaken, and awaken, and awaken, and awaken. And please, don't blame me - I didn't make it that way. YOU did.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Batman

[Shambhu]

@Batman

10 minutes ago, Batman said:

I understand your consideration, which I shared as well. But it is revealed that there are different "depths" to how Conscious you can become of your nature. Awakening can go "balls deep" (the mind being "Fully Blown"), and it can also be "teasing" or "arousing" (like "glimpse" or "kensho"). It does sound strange because Consciousness is Absolute, nevertheless awakening can be shallow or deep. Since trying to represent awakening in any way will be a misrepresentation, explaining the possible depth of it is all the more futile. The only way to go about this is to awaken, and awaken, and awaken, and awaken. And please, don't blame me - I didn't make it that way. YOU did.

Awakening and sleeping all happen within the mind, so yes, it can have degrees.  Imagine being under anesthesia where the mind is "offline," so to speak.  Is spiritual awakening even possible in such a state?  Having your mind "blown" is still a state of mind.  Consciousness, Infinity, Love, God, or whatever you want to call it, never sleeps, wakes, or realizes.  It is always completely free of such.  Only the mind suffers ignorance and only knowledge can remedy that.  The sickness and the cure happen on the same level...the mind.

[Batman]

4 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

@Batman

Awakening and sleeping all happen within the mind, so yes, it can have degrees.  Imagine being under anesthesia where the mind is "offline," so to speak.  Is spiritual awakening even possible in such a state?  Having your mind "blown" is still a state of mind. 

No, I wasn't referring to physical awakening. I was referring to Awakening in the context of the nature of reality. And no, in deep sleep you are not mistaking YOU for mind/perception, so no "spiritual awakening" can occur. Having your mind blown may be a state of mind, but it comes as a result, a side-effect, of deep awakening. 

Quote

Consciousness, Infinity, Love, God, or whatever you want to call it, never sleeps, wakes, or realizes.  It is always completely free of such.  Only the mind suffers ignorance and only knowledge can remedy that.  The sickness and the cure happen on the same level...the mind.

No, Consciousness can misidentify itself with it's content, which is equaled to being a sleep (or forgetful), so to speak. Indeed, it is never "tainted" by its content. However, it can (and does) mistaken itself to be something that isn't its innate nature, but only a manifestation of it (appearances). Awakening is the revelation that all appearance is illusory - only a function, a manifestation, an expression, of Consciousness.

[Shambhu]

@Batman

14 minutes ago, Batman said:

No, I wasn't referring to physical awakening. I was referring to Awakening in the context of the nature of reality.

Yes, I know what you were referring to :-)  My statements stand.

15 minutes ago, Batman said:

And no, in deep sleep you are not mistaking YOU for mind/perception, so no "spiritual awakening" can occur.

...because misidentification can only happen in the mind.

16 minutes ago, Batman said:

Having your mind blown may be a state of mind, but it comes as a result, a side-effect, of deep awakening. 

Again, the awakening is in the mind.  Consciousness is not asleep in any sense of the word.

16 minutes ago, Batman said:

No, Consciousness can misidentify itself with it's content, which is equaled to being a sleep (or forgetful), so to speak.

No, only the mind can identify, misidentify, remember or forget.  All of those things appear to Consciousness.

18 minutes ago, Batman said:

Awakening is the revelation that all appearance is illusory - only a function, a manifestation, an expression, of Consciousness.

Yes, awakening is direct knowledge of the true nature of existence, but that happens in the mind.  To be even more precise would be to say it happens in the intellect, but I'm afraid by saying that the members here might be confused into believing that I am only referring to an intellectual experience.  Tt certainly does not have that quality phenomenologically.  

In the Direct Path tradition, this is what is called the "Lower Witness" because you are still attributing mental functions to Consciousness.  The "Higher Witness" has no such qualities.

Ultimately, the mind does resolve into Consciousness, but the words are not equivalent.  Just like a wave is nothing other than the ocean, the ocean is not a wave.  

[Seraphim]

16 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm not sure what you mean..but personally I don't even like using the word Solipsism..it's not necessary and then people can get caught up with the word and turn it into a belief like you said.  But  there is only God.  You are God.  And you are imagining everything.  If you want to call that Absolute Solipsism or whatever Leo called it in the video, whatever I don't really give a hoot.  The point is that there is nothing outside of you.   There are not actually other minds or God is not actually being other minds simultaneously.  All division is an illusion  created by God limiting its consciousness so that there appears to be things outside of or independent of it.    In that way God can experience limitation.

But when you realize the absolute, duality comes back again as the absolute. Other people with their own minds are not a division or separation, everything is the absolute, the Self. You perceive things through your individual mind-consciousness, and if you for a moment are able to perceive its unmanifested form, it can seem like reality is solipsistic, but you fail to understand that other people also have their own mind-consciousness, in order to understand this you and Leo have to evolve further, not just by taking psychedelics and stimulating your upper glands to have temporary spiritual experiences, but to purify and clear away your inner limitations and distortions, eventually you will be able to understand who you are in the subtle/higher realms and see the whole picture.

But you don't have to evolve that far in order to have perfect happiness and freedom, for that you just need to free yourself from the ego/I-thought and realize the absolute. What level of happiness and inner freedom do you or Leo have? What is your "awakening" worth? I hope you feel happiness!

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

What is your "awakening" worth? I hope you feel happiness!

Nothing else matters but understanding what you are.

Everything else is ego.  And you can feel fulfilled by egoic stuff..but it won't last.  It will fade with your mortality.  It is grasping your own eternal being that is true liberation 

[vladorion]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nothing else matters but understanding what you are.

Everything else is ego.  And you can feel fulfilled by egoic stuff..but it won't last.  It will fade with your mortality.  It is grasping your own eternal being that is true liberation 

There is no "everything else". There is no ego.

There is only God, aka you.

Stop bullshitting yourself and wake up!

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, vladorion said:

There is no "everything else". There is no ego.

There is only God, aka you.

Stop bullshitting yourself and wake up!

Look in the mirror.  We are not saying this to jerk you off.  We are teaching you this to wake you up. 

[Seraphim]

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nothing else matters but understanding what you are.

Everything else is ego.  And you can feel fulfilled by egoic stuff..but it won't last.  It will fade with your mortality.  It is grasping your own eternal being that is true liberation 

Why are you so sure that you  fully understand what you are? Are you really liberated? After my awakening I have felt a constant happiness and freedom, even the imperfect things feel perfect, it doesn't come from "egoic stuff" like you wrote, it comes from within. But okay, you wrote that true liberation is to grasp your eternal being, why? Why should someone follow your advice instead of Ramana Maharshi's for example?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Seraphim

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

Why are you so sure that you  fully understand what you are? Are you really liberated? After my awakening I have felt a constant happiness and freedom, even the imperfect things feel perfect, it doesn't come from "egoic stuff" like you wrote, it comes from within. But okay, you wrote that true liberation is to grasp your eternal being, why? Why should someone follow your advice instead of Ramana Maharshi's for example?

I have never said anything different than Ramana Maharshi.  I am him.  And so are you.

[Vibes]

On 24/2/2022 at 5:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

The future is imaginary.

I already said that I don't agree with Spira's position. Which is why I say he's not fully awake. Which is why I warn against the dangers of Neo-Advaita. Neo-Advaita is NOT NOT NOT the highest realization.

 

No, I can't.

I am speaking of a level of awakening that cannot be validated by anyone.

Rupert Spira is a fiction you invented to keep yourself asleep 

Stop fucking around and wake up.

 

@Leo Gura

Should I remind myself that an outside world, other people's private consciousnesses / minds are imagined? Because if I stop for a bit and look at direct experience, it's kind of obvious.

I still hate to see the suffering of others. And this shit is tricky because I see a form and I add layers of thought on top of it making it seem like the form is suffering as other, like another being is suffering. If I could just see the form feel it and know that there are no other suffering that, this could even be called, Heaven?

Edited Sunday at 02:04 PM by Vibes

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, Vibes said:

 

You can discover only you suffer but then from that experience you realize there is only you. Rupert Spira likes to hide this from people. Why? Because he is very loving (human version of love) but not very truthful.

Here is a model that helps. God is like a t.v. screen and your human identity is what is in the screen. Notice how nothing in the screen/on the screen can actually impact the screen.

The screen accepts everything because it is unconditional, but what displays on the screen is expressions of conditions.

The screen is always singular, notice your first person perspective is singular. Notice you have always experienced a singular experience. Your mind has a division bias. It likes to create the illusion of separate experiences through labels.

But if you stop and pay attention everything always happens in one singular moment that never ends.

[Hojo]

I dont even think they are bubbles I think its just pictures floating around in a void and sometimes the void latches to a picture. Sometimes when I close my eyes I can see pictures and if im not focused enough I will get the full image in my mind in high quality but cannot do anything with it as if I focus on the image myself it dissapears.

Edited Monday at 03:30 PM by Hojo

[Vibes]

@Razard86 Most of the time I don't answer you back cause I have nothing more to say, but I'm always thankful for you helping out.

On 21/4/2024 at 0:00 PM, Razard86 said:

You can discover only you suffer but then from that experience you realize there is only you. Rupert Spira likes to hide this from people. Why? Because he is very loving (human version of love) but not very truthful.

Here is a model that helps. God is like a t.v. screen and your human identity is what is in the screen. Notice how nothing in the screen/on the screen can actually impact the screen.

The screen accepts everything because it is unconditional, but what displays on the screen is expressions of conditions.

The screen is always singular, notice your first person perspective is singular. Notice you have always experienced a singular experience. Your mind has a division bias. It likes to create the illusion of separate experiences through labels.

But if you stop and pay attention everything always happens in one singular moment that never ends.

Am I totally off and lost here or getting it or something...?

 

Edited Monday at 10:30 PM by Vibes

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Razard86 Most of the time I don't answer you back cause I have nothing more to say, but I'm always thankful for you helping out.

Am I totally off and lost here or getting it or something...?

 

Shoot, you tell me which one is it?

[Vibes]

3 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Shoot, you tell me which one is it?

I guess whatever I say it is. If I believe it, it'll feel like there's other there. If not, then will not. But I think conditioning made me fall quickly into believing there's other and immediately project that onto morphing forms.

 

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Vibes said:

I guess whatever I say it is. If I believe it, it'll feel like there's other there. If not, then will not. But I think conditioning made me fall quickly into believing there's other and immediately project that onto morphing forms.

 

The reason why it is so tricky is because you have to be REALLY honest, so honest that you have to contradict everything you have ever been told.

I'll give an example of how trippy this is with an example.

A man commits murder at 10:00pm at a gas station while you are some where else.

You go to the gas station at 10:30 pm and see the dead body and someone tells you the man murdered him at 10:00pm and they show you a video.

The truth is the man did not kill him before you got there, the truth is the man killed the man the first time on the video you watched of him killing the person.

You might reply....how, they said he killed the guy at 10:30pm. Yeah but think about it from this perspective. Pretend every scene in your life is a movie scene. As a movie director you can film the future scenes first and the past scenes last. But God films everything...in the order that it appears. As such, since you did not see the man kill the guy, the first time the scene of the guy killing the guy happened is when you watched the video of it happening. 

And the even big mind fuck of all is actually...nothing has ever happened or will ever happen. Because this is just nothing appearing. You can suffer because the special effects of this appearance have physical and emotional pain which is just consciousness appearing as the ability to hurt. Continuous hurting is suffering. And since you are Consciousness, you are suffering. 

But if Consciousness is hurting itself its akin to self-infliction of pain, since it has no other....it has nothing to stop it but itself. It hurts itself and stops itself by arresting and investigating itself and throwing itself in jail. It's just like your immune system fighting a cancer cell. And that is all that is happening, or not happening depending on how you want to look at it.