Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Tim R]

@Kksd74628 I think Raptorsin7 and I are working this thing out. As I said multiple times now, the discussion is not at all problematic, it's the way this "discussion" has turned into personal attacks against nahm behind his back. And that, and only that, is not allowed.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I never said that this discussion shouldn't be had? I even encourage this discussion! 

I'm literally just asking you to turn down the hatred, that's it. 

Okay that is true. I thought you at least insinuated it but I don't think you did.

I can have this conversation in a more harmonious way and I'll try to embody that

[Tim R]

@Raptorsin7 Thanks?? 

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Trickyp said:

What's the lection here, if one feels abused by Nahm he shall shut up and abuse somebody else instead since all is love and abuse doesn´t exist?

Some people are approaching this conversation with the intent to shout me down because the thought of Nahm not being who they thought he was is so painful. 

It's painful for me to, but I have just enough awareness and energy to where it's not overwhelming and I can still speak sense. Like even now my body shakes a bit as I write this, but I believe what i'm saying is true so I express it.

I think it's a real issue that this was never discussed before, and the constant gaslighting and shouting down is a big part of that. I had been passively aggressively critical of Nahm in my journal a few times, and i got dog piled by people telling me it was my fault, Nahm's a great guy, etc

[Vinnie]

Leo's finally woken up! Lmao.

[Kksd74628]

@Tim R

I am glad that you stopped this hatred, but as I said Leo does not want any drama here and there is reason that the original Nahm thread was being closed. 

On 16.2.2022 at 5:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

People causing drama, spreading ignorance, right-wing ideology, or even just repeatedly asking stupid questions will be banned.

I agree that the problem is not discussing about what Nahm did or didn't, but preferably I would hear Nahm's own perspective to this, because how could discussion where one is shaking from hatred, fear or something could lead to anywhere good.

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Like even now my body shakes a bit as I write this, but I believe what i'm saying is true so I express it.

I mean we can talk about this thing, but conversation that includes too much feelings and has clear potentiality to be escalated should be stopped imo. For example problem in this forum was not the communication of solipsism, but how immaturely people talked about the topic and that was the reason we needed to stop talking about this and I am sure that same will happen with this Nahm case when Leo sees that this is getting out of hands.

@Leo Gura himself said as followed: Note: do not attack each other over this. 

So that is the main reason I started talking about this whole thing. Just to prevent things from escalating and as I said I think NOW everything is discussed so it's time to stop talking about Nahm, because this is not what this forum is for. Let's move on!

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Kksd74628 I think we should speak about Nahm until we get closure and resolution. Burying the conversation is not going to help anyone.

[Gesundheit2]

35 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I agree I can turn down the hatred, but that should not mean these discussions should not be had.

You should have talked to Nahm in private first when you were having the problems. All of this ranting is unnecessary. If you talked and didn't like his response, then you should have stopped right there.

31 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I believe it possible to at least be wise enough to where if you spend 8 months working with someone they will be transformed

Well, there you have it. That's the belief that's created this problem for you, and will keep creating more of the same problem if you don't investigate its truth and then change it.

The reality is that cause and effect are an illusion. And that's especially true with the spiritual quest. One person will be transformed by listening to Jesus, and another one will become suicidal. There are no strict rules that govern the human mind.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Gesundheit2 said:

You should have talked to Nahm in private first when you were having the problems. All of this ranting is unnecessary.

Yeah I guess at some point I will have to. I feared being gaslit about my experience like I have in the past, so in public everything is exposed and you can't hide.

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Well, there you have it. That's the belief that's created this problem for you, and will keep creating more of the same problem if you don't investigate its truth and then change it.

It's not about the belief. It's about the harmony of the person and the teaching. 

The reason I can shift from hatred and anger to more calm and equanimity so quickly is because of quality guidance and grace from others, not from using the mind to attack and pick apart the mind.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Kksd74628 I think we should speak about Nahm until we get closure and resolution. Burying the conversation is not going to help anyone.

What would give you closure at this point?  I think you need to address this with him face to face.  Talking to us about it isn't going to give you closure.  Otherwise how long do you need to let it out until you feel better ? A week? Or month?  Or would dealing with nahm directly and getting closure with him directly allow you to move on?

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

What would give you closure at this point?  I think you need to address this with him face to face.  Talking to us about it isn't going to give you closure.  Otherwise how long do you need to let it out until you feel better ? A week? Or month?  Or would dealing with nahm directly and getting closure with hum directly allow you to move on?

I don't have a desire to speak to him 1-1, because I don't think it would solve anything.

But maybe an open thread, where we can go over the harm and the flaw.

But I don't know, my perspective has calmed and I can see how hatred and making Nahm an enemy is not harmonious, but at the same time I do believe a lot of this needed to be said.

I think my posts will be better, so maybe this can get resolved more effortlessly now

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It's not about the belief. It's about the harmony of the person and the teaching. 

That's nonsense. Who determines that? To an ISIS bomber, the radical fundamentalist teachings are the most harmonious thing in existence.

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The reason I can shift from hatred and anger to more calm and equanimity so quickly is because of quality guidance and grace from others, not from using the mind to attack and pick apart the mind.

You don't know that. Keep in mind that you still have hours of Nahm's communications in your mind, so it's very possible that they're only taking effect right now. You can't really say he didn't teach you anything, because maybe he laid out the groundwork for the rest of what you have learned. Maybe without Nahm, you would have never been able to move beyond that point you were at before. Maybe he planted the seeds for you and you didn't know.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Trickyp said:

Nahm shall pay back the 10k, problem solved.

 

I don't even want the money, I should probably stop emphasizing that I only used it show people that there was something not right about his approach.

I want Nahm to admit wrongdoing and make some step to either stop teaching or find a real teacher and receive genuine guidance so he can help people, without doing harm.

 

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7

You should watch Leo's video of Everyone Acts From Good Intentions

Maybe you didn't resonate with Nahm's teachings, but that is not logic to attack teacher imo. There are many teachers and with some you just can't make good progress and that is not your or teachers fault. Nahm didn't purposely want that which happened so ranting about him and calling him charlatan is just projecting your own negative feelings here so please stop that, thanks.

@Inliytened1

Thank you, because you see the same thing that I try to point here. My honest opinion is that this conversation is over and there shouldn't be any talking about Nahm without Nahm first coming here to defend himself, because otherwise it is too easy just to rant about someone. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I don't even want the money, I should probably stop emphasizing that I only used it show people that there was something not right about his approach.

I want Nahm to admit wrongdoing and make some step to either stop teaching or find a real teacher and receive genuine guidance so he can help people, without doing harm.

 

@TrickypYes it seems to be the emotional damage.  Paying back the money now can't fix that.  

Ultimately @Raptorsin7 needs to find this closure within himself.  And be at peace with himself over it.

[roopepa]

22 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Some people are approaching this conversation with the intent to shout me down because the thought of Nahm not being who they thought he was is so painful. 

Who are the people shouting you down and gaslighting? Which users? Can you quote the posts and paste links where this has happened, so everyone, along with mods, can see it and make their assessment so that we could have closure.

By the way, I understand why you feel the need to make your voice heard, as I had very similar experience as you do, but with Leo. I understand the frustration and anger you feel.

What comes to the money you paid for Nahm's sessions, I think it would be reasonable and justified for you to ask your money back, as you clearly feel dissappointed and scammed. Have you asked for refund?

And just for the sake of clarity, do you want to make one more post explaining one by one each thing you think Nahm did wrong? As in, each lie you think he told, each charlatan move, each scam... etc. And would you like to tell how you felt before, during and after you worked with him? You can make your own thread for it if you like.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

That's nonsense. Who determines that? To an ISIS bomber, the radical fundamentalist teachings are the most harmonious thing in existence.

You don't know that. Keep in mind that you still have hours of Nahm's communications in your mind, so it's very possible that they're only taking effect right now. You can't really say he didn't teach you anything, because maybe he laid out the groundwork for the rest of what you have learned. Maybe without Nahm, you would have never been able to move beyond that point you were at before. Maybe he planted the seeds for you and you didn't know.

I can trace my progress to different teachings and teachers. True teachers will have an energy and grace to them, and it will flow to you. 

Nahm is not pure evil, so i'm sure he did some good things, but I think the fact that I ended up suicidal after having spent so much time with him is evidence of something disharmonious about his approach. Maybe he is good for somethings and some people, but genuine spiritual understand and living in harmony I don't think he is credible. But he acts and presents himself like he is a true saint, that is my biggest gripe. 

3 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Maybe you didn't resonate with Nahm's teachings, but that is not logic to attack teacher imo. There are many teachers and with some you just can't make good progress and that is not your or teachers fault. Nahm didn't purposely want that which happened so ranting about him and calling him charlatan is just projecting your own neghative feelings here so please stop that, thanks.

I agree I shouldn't attack Nahm, but I don't think this discussion should be stopped. Nahm is not banned from the forum, Leo just said he has to change his approach, so he can come in and respond to the criticism. 

I think my fundamental point is that Nahm is doing harm to some people, and I want to show the community what happened and how this works.

 

[Gregory1]

@Raptorsin7 please shut up and stop calling Nahm a "sharlatan"

[Gesundheit2]

10 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I can trace my progress to different teachings and teachers. True teachers will have an energy and grace to them, and it will flow to you. 

Nahm is not pure evil, so i'm sure he did some good things, but I think the fact that I ended up suicidal after having spent so much time with him is evidence of something disharmonious about his approach. Maybe he is good for somethings and some people, but genuine spiritual understand and living in harmony I don't think he is credible. But he acts and presents himself like he is a true saint, that is my biggest gripe.

You're conflating two things here:

1. Your frustration with the results you think you've got from working with Nahm.
2. Your perception of him as a person.

It might help you to separate these things before continuing, because one can affect the other.

It might be true that you didn't have the results you wanted from him, but it's also true that most other people have experienced the opposite. So we can't accept your perception/judgment on his person because the evidence is so overwhelmingly to the opposite effect. I don't know if it's okay, but a poll can definitely demonstrate this point.

I perceive him as a legit spiritual teacher. Many share the same perception. But just like with everything else, the perfect product that pleases everyone does not exist. Otherwise, everyone will just buy it and all problems will end.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7

You should also watch Leo's video of The Power Of Letting Go

You should understand that this is not about Nahm, but you. It's you that needs to accept that which happened or/and to talk to Nahm personally. As many people have said they have got lot of good about Nahm and if what he said made harm it most likely made some good. Your intention to stop Nahm from teaching or to tell people to stop listening Nahm is personal attack against Nahm and his brand and that is something which is illegal to do, because if we would ask Nahm he would most likely to say that yeah I am sorry from that which happened and I only want good for everyone and if that which I did made someone hurt then again I am sorry.

So that you name Nahm as charlatan is just you trying to feel better when you were hurt. Accept that you are hurt and see that no amount of attacking Nahm will fix you. You are one of the types of people who feel better when the one who hurted you gets punishment, but that's actually very egoistical and unhealthy and actually very vomiting. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628