Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

You should understand that this is not about Nahm, but you. It's you that needs to accept that which happened or/and to talk to Nahm personally. As many people have said they have got lot of good about Nahm and if what he said made harm it most likely made some good. Your intention to stop Nahm from teaching or to tell people to stop listening Nahm is personal attack against Nahm and his brand and that is something which is illegal to do, because if we would ask Nahm he would most likely to say that yeah I am sorry from that which happened and I only want good for everyone and if that which I did made someone hurt then again I am sorry. So that you name Nahm as charlatan is just you trying to feel better when you were hurt. Accept that you are hurt and see that no amount of attacking Nahm will fix you.

You are one of the types of people who feel better when the one who hurted you gets punishment, but that's actually very egoistical and unhealty and actually very vomiting. 

I think shining light to the community about his conduct is important. If I talked to Nahm personally and it doesn't get resolved and I don't speak about it, then how will anything change in his conduct or how people approach his advice?

Do you believe anyone is a charlatan? Would we say the same about tv preachers, if someone were to expose the untruth of what they say?

I want to see Nahm stop teaching before he has a real teaching and understanding, but I see how I can't force that.

[Inliytened1]

@Kksd74628 yes. This is about him not @nahm. . He needs to look within himself..  But it is easier said than done.  If this is helping him right now to ultimately get to that point then fine.  Telling him he is "the kind of person, etc" is not going to help him.  Watch the personal attacks 

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

@Raptorsin7 please shut up and stop calling Nahm a "sharlatan"

I expect more from you then telling someone to shut up.  Next time it's a warning and you are close to being banned.  We are working through this with him.

[Raptorsin7]

16 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Who are the people shouting you down and gaslighting? Which users? Can you quote the posts and paste links where this has happened, so everyone, along with mods, can see it and make their assessment so that we could have closure.

I'd say the most clear example is @Gregory1 telling me to shut up and stop expressing my view that Nahm is a charlatan. But look at the comments of people wanting the thread closed, people telling me that Nahm doesn't charge.

I don't have a huge issue with the gaslighting personally, I was bringing attention to it because I saw it as further proof that people here are emotionally bonded in a toxic way to Nahm. Like the idea of being harshly critical of him would trigger them to attack me.

25 minutes ago, roopepa said:

By the way, I understand why you feel the need to make your voice heard, as I had very similar experience as you do, but with Leo. I understand the frustration and anger you feel.

I understand that. I have harmed people and gaslit them on this forum too so I get it, I was very upset with Nahm because I emotionally invested a lot of hope into the relationship.

I see how that was a mistake because I wouldn't behave the same way with teachers now, but I felt like I had to say something and I have bottled this up for years.

26 minutes ago, roopepa said:

What comes to the money you paid for Nahm's sessions, I think it would be reasonable and justified for you to ask your money back, as you clearly feel dissappointed and scammed. Have you asked for refund?

No I haven't, but It won't be necessary now. I take back demanding a refund. 

It's more that I really resent that Nahm played the role of a scammer. It's like I can't believe he was the kind of person who would engage financially with me like that.

27 minutes ago, roopepa said:

And just for the sake of clarity, do you want to make one more post explaining one by one each thing you think Nahm did wrong? As in, each lie you think he told, each charlatan move, each scam... etc. And would you like to tell how you felt before, during and after you worked with him? You can make your own thread for it if you like.

We will see. I don't know how i'm going to approach this, but I'm going to stop attacking him and try to do my best to approach this in a harmonious way

[Kksd74628]

@Inliytened1

I have used almost 3 hours of my time to solve this situation and I know that it's not easy to look within himself, but the thing is that actually only showing him hard truth of himself is only solution here, because otherwise he keeps arguing with the helper like he has done for 3 hours. If it would be up to me I would actually work his sadness with him for free NOW, but before we get to this he needs to understand that attacking Nahm is not the solution and only after that we can get to next thing.

And Nahm is obviously not charlatan like @Raptorsin7 says. And his intention to stop Nahm's teaching is something what we shouldn't allow here, period.

I can't include all empathy in my messages, because I am busy answering to @Raptorsin7 about all thought mistakes he is doing already. The truth is that I care about him, but how could I ever get to this if he does not believe that which I say is truth. Because he is very argumentative person only way out of this is to show him the bad he is making. I know this, because I am pretty good at argumenting and at conversations and I have faced similar cases and only way out of them was to make another one to realize that he is wrong. Otherwise he would just keep thinking better and better arguments and that woudn't fix that he is thinking illogically.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think shining light to the community about his conduct is important. If I talked to Nahm personally and it doesn't get resolved and I don't speak about it, then how will anything change in his conduct or how people approach his advice?

Do you believe anyone is a charlatan? Would we say the same about tv preachers, if someone were to expose the untruth of what they say?

I want to see Nahm stop teaching before he has a real teaching and understanding, but I see how I can't force that.

I really appreciate what you are doing. I'm sure it's affecting you emotionally, and many people are thinking that you're a poor idiot, but it's not like that. you have been the victim of a vampire, and that is hard and can make life a little bitter. to shed light on what has happened, you heal your wound and at the same time make others see the kind of person they were dealing with. This type of narcissist is a hypnotist, many people will see him as a saint even if you show that you gave him your house in exchange for Skype chat. do not listen to them. many people will have caught what happens here

[Raptorsin7]

@Inliytened1 Thank you. I'll try and do better

@Breakingthewall Thank you, I appreciate the support. I was wrong in not having more compassion for Nahm though, I think he is harmful, but I could have handled this better

[Gesundheit2]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We are working through this with him.

Why in public though? It's very strange that this thread has continued and degraded down to this level without locking it or giving any warnings. Suddenly nobody in the moderation team cares about Nahm's public image, let alone feelings. Suddenly the bias has shifted against the moderation team, when Nahm is down.

I can't believe you, people.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Why in public though? It's very strange that this thread has continued and degraded down to this level without locking it or giving any warnings. Suddenly nobody in the moderation team cares about Nahm's public image, let alone feelings. Suddenly the bias has shifted against the moderation team, when Nahm is down.

I can't believe you, people.

We are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.  If we lock it we will get crucified for a lack of compassion.   And we do feel compassion- at least I do, for raptor and the whole situation.  It's sad that nahms imsge is being tainted..but maybe his image was a farce to begin with.  We cannot hold any bias as mods either way.

[Raptorsin7]

@Inliytened1 Thank you. I'll try and do better

7 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Inliytened1

I have used almost 3 hours of my time to solve this situation and I know that it's not easy to look within himself, but the thing is that actually only showing him hard truth of himself is only solution here, because otherwise he keeps arguing with the helper like he has done for 3 hours. If it would be up to me I would actually work his sadness with him for free NOW, but before we get to this he needs to understand that attacking Nahm is not the solution and only after that we can get to next thing.

And Nahm is obviously not charlatan like @Raptorsin7 says. And his intention to stop Nahm's teaching is something what we shouldn't allow here, period.

I can't include all empathy in my messages, because I am busy answering to @Raptorsin7 about all thought mistakes he is doing already. The truth is that I care about him, but how could I ever get to this if he does not believe that which I say is truth. Because he is very argumentative person only way out of this is to show him the bad he is making. I know this, because I am pretty good at argumenting and at conversations and I have faced similar cases and only way out of them was to make another one to realize that he is wrong. Otherwise he would just keep thinking better and better arguments and that woudn't fix that he is thinking illogically.

Empathy is not in limited supply. But I understand why you argued with me to get me out of a hateful perspective.

I don't know if it's the right thing to do to stop Nahm from teaching, but it might be true. Maybe if we can find a way to stop Nahm from teaching people like I was when I first came to the forum that would be good

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Why in public though? It's very strange that this thread has continued and degraded down to this level without locking it or giving any warnings. Suddenly nobody in the moderation team cares about Nahm's public image, let alone feelings. Suddenly the bias has shifted against the moderation team, when Nahm is down.

I can't believe you, people.

I expressed the energy I was feeling. It just kind of happen, I didn't plan it. But I think this was good, and I helped people see the truth.

“Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.”

― Rumi

I think true teachers are beyond petty concerns about self image. If Nahm is as real as you think, then he would be happy to see what is happening 

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.  If we lock it we will get crucified for a lack of compassion.  

And yet, you all seemed to stick with that option in almost every case for years. Well, except now.

You can close the thread and explain that the discussion will continue in private.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

And yet, you all seemed to stick with that option in almost every case for years. Well, except now.

You can close the thread and explain that the discussion will continue in private.

And we do feel compassion- at least I do, for raptor and the whole situation.  It's sad that nahms imsge is being tainted..but maybe his image was a farce to begin with.  We cannot hold any bias as mods either way.

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I expressed the energy I was feeling. It just kind of happen, I didn't plan it. But I think this was good, and I helped people see the truth.

It was enough when you talked about it in the original demotion thread. You took it too far, and you were allowed. I find this to be very strange and suspicious.

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think true teachers are beyond petty concerns about self image.

Another false and toxic belief.

 

[Raptorsin7]

6 minutes ago, Trickyp said:

This is the question, so if I rape you it is not about me but about you. Narcissism would be the superior "strategy" then. 

I think it's about both, but this thread is about me because I could have approached it better.

I came in with anger and fury because I felt so hurt by what happened and I bottled it up for years. But I could have resolved it in a more harmonious way, without turning to hatred. 

I think it was good to say it in public, I think all conversations are in some sense public because we are only ever hurting ourselves by lying or trying to cover things up.

 

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7

Thanks for understanding  

So my advice for future is that you work these things with yourself or someone who is professional from your point of view. Actually I could talk these things with you, if you want and as you can see even when you argued against me and tried to prove me wrong actually I don't have any bad feelings towards you so that could be sign for you that I am not trying anything bad.

Thing is that just drop this want to stop Nahm from teaching, because I can say my hand in my heart that Nahm does not want anything bad to anyone else and this is the case for everyone and if you don't believe that then see Leo's video of Everyone Acts From Good Intentions like I told you. Also there is no reason to stop Nahm from teaching, because there are not that much of people who have faced something so radical like you have.

I agree that there were many cases when Nahm failed to talk in relative domain and talked in absolute domain, but I wouldn't question his understanding in spirituality and like I have said earlier not Leo nor any other spiritual teacher can fix your emotional problems and this is where professional therapist comes. Of course spiritual teacher may lead someone to almost kill themself if not kill themself, but spiritual teachers have no experience about people's mental problems and this is something that is not their job.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Another false and toxic belief.

If you are a spiritual teacher and you see this and it disrupts your harmony and peace then that is a sign of your unenlightenment and need to progress. 

So maybe Nahm will get triggered and upset and will have to purge, but if he is authentic then this will not disrupt his harmony.

If he tries to shout me down, deflect, blame, project etc then its a sign of unconsciousness and it would harm him even more

[Gesundheit2]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And we do feel compassion- at least I do, for raptor and the whole situation. 

Compassion for what? For being so naive and donating a ton amount of money to a guy who offered free guidance? And then keep on buying sessions with him?

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's sad that nahms imsge is being tainted..but maybe his image was a farce to begin with.

His image is a farce only if you're blind to the overwhelming evidence.

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We cannot hold any bias as mods either way.

Okay, lol.

[Breakingthewall]

Those who say that you have to hide or block the thread are like the Inquisition, or those Catholics who hide pedophile priests. the truth has to shine. those who prefer blindness, continue to trust charlatans who offer money transfers and do magic, and give them money, but it is very positive that the true face of these leeches comes to light

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Those who say that you have to hide or block the thread are like the Inquisition, or those Catholics who hide pedophile priests. the truth has to shine. those who prefer blindness, continue to trust charlatans who offer money transfers and do magic, and give them money, but it is very positive that the true face of these leeches comes to light

The Truth shall set you free.  That said there were people who paid nahm and were happy with the service and their growth.  One such individual that I also talk to that has paid @nahm is @lesu.  So Raptor is only one example and there could be many other happily paid (or not) customers.   Whether they were deceived or not doesn't matter of it helped their growth.  And he has told me it has helped his.  I have always provided my counsel to him for free though.

 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

@Raptorsin7

Thanks for understanding  

So my advice for future is that you work these things with yourself or someone who is professional from your point of view. Actually I could talk these things with you, if you want and as you can see even when you argued against me and tried to prove me wrong actually I don't have any bad feelings towards you so that could be sign for you that I am not trying anything bad.

Thing is that just drop this want to stop Nahm from teaching, because I can say my hand in my heart that Nahm does not want anything bad to anyone else and this is the case for everyone and if you don't believe that then see Leo's video of Everyone Acts From Good Intentions like I told you. Also there is no reason to stop Nahm from teaching, because there are not that much of people who have faced something so radical like you have.

I agree that there were many cases when Nahm failed to talk in relative domain and talked in absolute domain, but I wouldn't question his understanding in spirituality and like I have said earlier not Leo nor any other spiritual teacher can fix your emotional problems and this is where professional therapist comes. Of course spiritual teacher may lead someone to almost kill themself if not kill themself, but spiritual teachers have no experience about people's mental problmems and this is something that is not their job.

It's hard for me to view this entire exchange as bad because I feel like this entire thread has become more balanced and harmonious than most actualized.org threads. And it's because things were expressed in such a raw, unfiltered, approach etc.

Do you see you have created a perspective where you are an authority over me. I don't know how to say this without provoking you but i'll try. I think by you offering and trying to help, you are actually being toxic and this is kind of like what I am accusing Nahm of. It's like on the surface you seem like a good guy trying to help, but I sense shadow motivations and I think our relationship if I accepted you as an authority would be harmful