What are your Biggest Sticking Points on the Path?

[Fearless_Bum]

Genuinely curious. 

I really want to see through your perspectives, what are your struggles within the spiritual process? 

Please feel free to share anything, no judgement here ?.

[Consilience]

Taking on the emotional hit of practicing. I mean realistically, the first 10,000 hours of meditation is still just warming up to accessing the possible domains, states, and insights of mind. Im glad I didn't realize just how deep “the path” went when I started, it would have been incredibly demoralizing. So a big sticking point is becoming complacent, lazy, and not meditating because of all the emotional games the mind plays with resisting meditation practice.

The good news is it takes relatively little time (relative to the extent of the overall work and effort) to start reaping enormous benefits of practice. 

[Thought Art]

Survival and fear about what may happen. Not accepting reality as it is. 

[Bojan V]

At first i wasn't sure what do you mean with the term Sticking Points because english is not my native language. Who knows, the biggest Sticking Point could be a penis lol!

But seriously, my main issue are persistend intrusive thoughts. I didn't have it earlier in my life, but by now this is going on daily, many years.

The content of these intrusive thoughts is  fascinating, interesting, disturbing, chaotic and scary at the same time. The thoughts are so fast as well! They are bizzare, misterious, some of them violent. The violent thoughts are the most disturbing to me. I have to say i am an introspective and selfobservant person, so i came to a few conclusions why they appear in that way.

I found out experientialy, that on the spiritual journey i have to deal with ALL repressed unconscious shadow aspects of myself. However, i resisted with the acceptance of my shadow so the shadow is showing up to me in that way to finaly deal with it and heal it.

I don't want to go in details, especialy not publicaly on this forum, but those thoughts are related especialy with my father and they are the simptom of a deeply rooted patterns whos origin is in my early childhood.

I also want to say that another "thought flow" is orderly just like other people have it, otherwise i simply couldn't function with that intrusive thought chaos.

People are not talking about this issue at all so i hope i will get some feedback from some of you...

Edited November 5, 2021 by Bojan V

[Fearless_Bum]

@Consilience 

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Taking on the emotional hit of practicing. I mean realistically, the first 10,000 hours of meditation is still just warming up to accessing the possible domains, states, and insights of mind.

I would let go of this belief, 10,000 hours? Meditation is about letting go of moving in time, meditation is all about simply sitting down and being in touch with the "real world". That belief can actually hold you back im not saying itll be sunshine and rainbows (Although it is for me  no matter what), but just let go of masochistic thinking (I gotta do x amount of meditation, I gotta be good, etc.). The journey, not the destination (there isnt one lol).

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

So a big sticking point is becoming complacent, lazy, and not meditating because of all the emotional games the mind plays with resisting meditation practice.

This may be hard for you to hear, but the belief that you gotta be working super duper hard (perfectionism) is actually whats causing the complacency (ive been there). 

@Thought Art Survival is a beautiful and interesting field in the relative world. But shitting, eating, fucking, and owning it in life is something that really goes beyond even Survival / God. Be aware of the trap of looking down on the Natural world, it is actually more intelligent than you, look at the body (the one you think is yours) notice the wisdom of the body, it has 0 concern for all your fantastical ideas. It is the ultimate Zen master. 

To summarize and drive deeper, youre falling for the duality between nature/survival and god, im telling you, they are exactly the same thing. 

1 hour ago, Bojan V said:

But seriously, my main issue are persistent intrusive thoughts. I didn't have it earlier in my life, but by now this is going on daily, many years.

@Bojan V The notion of intrusive thoughts is fundamentally groundless, as it is thought that says "Im having intrusive thoughts".

Lets break down whats going on here, what youre doing is youre battling yourself and pretending you arent (its okay, luckily billions of people are in your shoes:

(There is only thought, no thoughts, so in this example I want you to imagine in these next lines that once you move on to the next apparent thought, the previous one(s) disappear, got it?)

-Thought shapeshifts into a violent fantasy, nothing wrong with this. 

-Then, thought shapeshifts into a "you" which has a problem with the violent fantasy.

-Then the "you" starts repeating "I have intrusive thoughts!"

-Then thought manifests again into an even deeper, scarier fantasy.

-Then thought manifests once again into the you that is reacting, and the you says he feels fear. 

Notice this, you are literally poking yourself with a stick and pretending you arent. 

You create the nightmare and the one who is afraid of it, each time refining the fantasy even more and that strengthens the one who is fearful, its an endless battle. 

The way out is to stop manifesting the one who is reacting. So the next time the fantasy comes up, be in touch with the body, notice that the body (The real You technically) is perfectly fine and peaceful, but it is the imagined you which claims to feel afraid (He really cant as he is a thought. )

I hope this helped.

Oh yes, also you dont have any shadows, there is no mind (container full of thoughts, there is only thought manifesting as what appears to be one fantasy at a time.). 

What I mean by this ^ is that when thought manifests as "I got shadows man!" thats literally all thats there, notice that theres only the story that you have shadows, but no actual shadows there. 

Then notice that the shadows disappear when thought manifests as something else. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Fearless_Bum

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Taking on the emotional hit of practicing. I mean realistically, the first 10,000 hours of meditation is still just warming up to accessing the possible domains, states, and insights of mind. Im glad I didn't realize just how deep “the path” went when I started, it would have been incredibly demoralizing. So a big sticking point is becoming complacent, lazy, and not meditating because of all the emotional games the mind plays with resisting meditation practice.

The good news is it takes relatively little time (relative to the extent of the overall work and effort) to start reaping enormous benefits of practice. 

have just reached a thousand hours in 2021, getting up at 4 and meditating in the bone cold darkness with do nothing and still no glimpses

that's my sticking point

one silver lining, zero pride in myself now and i hardly talk any more which might be good

i am not discouraged and seek no advice or insight

nine thousand or so to go

 

[Loba]

Weed/caffeine/internet addiction; hard time sticking to a spiritual practice.

Listen to too much music, also.

[Fearless_Bum]

Just now, Loba said:

Weed/caffeine/internet addiction; hard time sticking to a spiritual practice.

Listen to too much music, also.

@Loba Ooo my favorite, Id say just let go of the self judgement, life is all about awesomeness. 

I mean what, you wanna be some dried up monk sitting under a tree all day?

Transcend yet include, you will never be free from pleasure, the gurus of today rarely tell you this. Rather the desire to be free is your prison cell. 

I find some people into spirituality feel they have to prove to themselves and others that they are absolutely free from all attachments, but attachments literally dont exist. 

When you pick up that morning cup of coffee and take a sip, something miraculous beyond words is happening. 

Now of course, common sense, if your behaviors are causing you health issues, then take action. 

[Preety_India]

I wanted to let go of survival but that is simply impossible. But in my mind if that's possible then it's a huge challenge conquered in a spiritual sense 

 

 

[Fearless_Bum]

@Preety_India survival is not some petty thing to be let go of, survival is literally the natural order moving its eternal energy around (animals eating each other, humans mating). 

See the deep intelligence of what we call survival, the animals don't even exist, it is eternal life. 

Like insects are fucking tiny robots flying around, humans are robots with an extraordinary sensitivity! Like my brain is on the verge of blowing up from the intelligence! ?

Edited November 5, 2021 by Fearless_Bum

[Bojan V]

@Fearless_Bum You've asked to share our strugles on our spiritual path. I didn't ask you for help at all. Your reply wasn't helpfull at all (it didn't hurt either). Besides you didn't understand my struggles at all. And i am not in the same place as billions of others. Talking about groundlesness and me having no shadow is simply not true, at least not right now.

 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Fearless_Bum said:

This may be hard for you to hear, but the belief that you gotta be working super duper hard (perfectionism) is actually whats causing the complacency (ive been there)

Not difficult at all to hear. I don’t feel particularly complacent though, my own practice is going extremely well. What Im pointing out is just a sticking point, a place where resistance can arise which is “damn this path is a lot of work.” 

While I see and acknowledge what you’re pointing to, this doesn’t resolve the suffering in life, or fundamentally transcend the fear of pain and death. Doing the work does that. The idea that there’s nothing to do and to take it easy can very easily be co-opted by the ego into avoiding facing such existential realities, such as the magnitude of and resistance towards such suffering. 

For my own practice, Im not aiming for perfectionism. Everything is unfolding exactly and only as it could. Thank you for the feedback though. 
 

Edit: moreover, it’s not just transcending fear - no amount of taking it easy will replace the authentic consciousness of truth, of directly experiencing reality. The paradox is that what is true is already true, regardless of effort yes. But if you aren’t conscious you aren’t conscious. How does one become conscious? Doing the work which makes consciousness more likely to become conscious (meditation).

Edited November 5, 2021 by Consilience

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

have just reached a thousand hours in 2021, getting up at 4 and meditating in the bone cold darkness with do nothing and still no glimpses

that's my sticking point

one silver lining, zero pride in myself now and i hardly talk any more which might be good

i am not discouraged and seek no advice or insight

nine thousand or so to go

 

What have you “gained” as a result of your practice if no glimpses? What do you define as glimpses? 

[njuufa]

Why do i do what i do. 

[Fearless_Bum]

26 minutes ago, Consilience said:

While I see and acknowledge what you’re pointing to, this doesn’t resolve the suffering in life, or fundamentally transcend the fear of pain and death. Doing the work does that. The idea that there’s nothing to do and to take it easy can very easily be co-opted by the ego into avoiding facing such existential realities, such as the magnitude of and resistance towards such suffering. 

@Consilience there is no such thing as suffering. Transcend fear? What do you mean transcend fear? 

The very assumption that there even is a fear to transcend is false. You're creating ghosts and running in circles. I'm only being honest ?, why fool you into thinking you gotta do all this work? I would never do such a torturous thing, I fell into that trap for years, no sir. 

@Bojan V understand your struggles? I love you so much man ? , but don't give me that bullshit. I will never, ever acknowledge your so called struggles because you're already perfect. Find a slave Master who'll teach you to whip yourself if you wanna keep running in circles. 

40 minutes ago, Bojan V said:

@Fearless_Bum Talking about groundlesness and me having no shadow is simply not true, at least not right now.

"At least right now." So the shadows are true/false only when you decide? 

Seems like it isn't true then.

41 minutes ago, Bojan V said:

@Fearless_Bum Your reply wasn't helpfull at all (it didn't hurt either). 

Huh? Whyre you trying to prove to me that my comment didn't hurt, my intention wasn't even to hurt you lol. 

Sorry for the rough language, but I feel very passionate about shaking you out of your hypnosis, that's just how I do it. I'm at the verge of tears over here ??. 

[Vincent S]

9 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

Sorry for the rough language, but I feel very passionate about shaking you out of your hypnosis, that's just how I do it. I'm at the verge of tears over here ??. 

I see you ?
I love you Fearless Bum ???

[Fearless_Bum]

@Vincent S I love you as well. 

It is most difficult at times to share this Love. 

The ultimate question is: "How do you share something that people claim to want yet don't really want?" ??

[Vincent S]

2 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@Vincent S I love you as well. 

It is most difficult at times to share this Love. 

The ultimate question is: "How do you share something that people claim to want yet don't really want?" ??

Because they have to accept that way of seeing, for themselves, to fully experience it, like you do. ?✨?

Difficulty in sharing it, is Love. But a Love for No One. It just is there like a flower. (Lovely person told me this the other day) ?☺️

[Fearless_Bum]

@Vincent S

8 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

Because they have to accept that way of seeing, for themselves, to fully experience it, like you do. ?✨?

100% correct. It's an instant response at this point, very organic. I'm not even trying to help honestly, its just the natural order doing its thing. 

My very design is to be Love, which means if someone is having a bad day, I smile at them, if someone is hurting I'll give them a hug. 

It doesn't happen because I care, it's just what I am. It's a mindfuck, like I don't give a fuck about you, but at the same time I love you so much ??. 

11 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

Difficulty in sharing it, is Love. But a Love for No One. It just is there like a flower. (Lovely person told me this the other day) ?☺️

I'm humbled ?.

[Vincent S]

2 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

It doesn't happen because I care, it's just what I am. It's a mindfuck, like I don't give a fuck about you, but at the same time I love you so much ??. 

Unconditional ✨?