Thought Art

Growing Movement in Canada To De-criminalize drugs

33 posts in this topic

Nah it won't happen for quite a while. My country is still filled to the brim with rural Conservative simpletons. Who have the audacious lack of self awareness to call their party "Progressive Conservatives". lol I should start my own party called "The Up Downs".

I volunteer at a local fire department, and most of the people there are generally conservative. They are fantastic people who won't hesitate or have a problem delivering Narcan and first aid to overdose patients, but if you bring up the idea of safe injection sites so that we WON'T have to go to such lengths to save people they get pissed off because socialism and it's their tax money being used to "feed their addiction".

It's a good example of the cognitive dissonance of those on lower Spiral Dynamics stages.

 


"Never held a high regard for Darwin, selection takes too long.
A little kick in the pool shouldn't do us wrong.
Devouring the very last invention man would ever need.
But exponential growth is a frightening thing, indeed.
"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Roy said:

Nah it won't happen for quite a while. My country is still filled to the brim with rural Conservative simpletons. Who have the audacious lack of self awareness to call their party "Progressive Conservatives". lol I should start my own party called "The Up Downs".

I volunteer at a local fire department, and most of the people there are generally conservative. They are fantastic people who won't hesitate or have a problem delivering Narcan and first aid to overdose patients, but if you bring up the idea of safe injection sites so that we WON'T have to go to such lengths to save people they get pissed off because socialism and it's their tax money being used to "feed their addiction".

It's a good example of the cognitive dissonance of those on lower Spiral Dynamics stages.

 

It's shame. People just aren't educated on that fact that it's really a mental health crisis. You aren't feeding their addiction you are creating a safe space for them to use, seek mental health services and work toward recovery.

I don't want to waste my tax money for years on end saving people, or have people lose their loved ones. People are fragmented as have this whole drug thing ass backwards. The war on drugs has done far more harm than good. There could have been a much better approach. I think it may happen sooner than we think.

Even the top police officials want the decriminalization to happen. anyway we shall see.

All drugs should be decriminalized for personal use. I think that obviously illegal drug traffickers should be arrested on a case by case basis as they likely are feeding their addictions too or are just assholes. 


"When you Look in the sky, Just try looking inside, God Knows what you might find... "Here Comes The Nighttime" -Arcade Fire 

Qigong and Spirituality +Vlog - Thought Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Carl-Richard Why doooo


"When you Look in the sky, Just try looking inside, God Knows what you might find... "Here Comes The Nighttime" -Arcade Fire 

Qigong and Spirituality +Vlog - Thought Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wont happen federally for a while but I think it's very possible that decriminalization at the municipal level in Vancouver could happen within a year or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Reading the comments section to that article is exactly what I would have expected, unfortunately.

A good friend of mine used to work in conjunction with the insite (supervised injection site) for his thesis project as a grad student about 10 years ago, I remember the lack of optimism, at times.

........

I wonder if the people who are complaining about the number of increased deaths and overdoses know or care about the mental health facilities that have shut down in the greater Vancouver era, for example, as one of a number of contributing issues. Where do those people generally end up? Quite a few ended up right back on the DTES side.

There are apparently people who think that enforcing some greater sense of consequences actually will do anything for people with classical  mental health issues, including, for example, some man with schizophrenia who talks to himself on the street. (???).... With that mindset, all you can do is penalize them and put them in jail (because they obviously can't pay fines), and put them in a place you aren't forced to look at them or think about them anymore.

Why not just admit that you don't really give a shit about people or improving social issues?

Edited by modmyth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Salutations from Québec/Canada.

 

Well i think words don't mean much in the mouths of politicians, especially when dealing with those exploiting the language barrier, for example:

 

About INCIDENTAL Légaleezation - From 2015 Liberal electoral platform [480x360] .PNG

 

It turns out the legal term "incidental" is required to translate as "possession simple" where i live, while this most basic correction didn't actually occur until 2 years had passed after Justin Trudeau formed his liberal government in Ottawa.  Quite unfortunately even that promise wasn't carved in stone as it's intended to get re-evaluated after 5 years and hence i would guess that's going to occur next year in a parliament where no party wants to cost another 612 million dollars just to organize federal elections again...

 

Nowhere i can identify a party that feels friendly to my own kind, not even in any of all government levels.  So, it might very well happen that 2 or 3 (maybe more) parties will decide to please angry voters by squeezing "stoner$"/"droÿé$" despite past hopes of fair treatment, except in Québec and Manitoba which got sacrificed to serve electoral purposes essentially.  Now that's sort of odd because before Trudeau we were supposed to be a majority of people who consumed at least once, then a few years into "légaleezation" it sounds like Québec is practically a bunch of alcohol drinkers instead.  In any case the previous provincial government of Philippe Couillard gave landlords a retro-active privilege to engage into eviction procedures over cannabis, so in principle all it takes is a photograph or a video to serve as proof in front of an administrative body.  Anyway, even without this the abusive lanlords may feel tempted/justified to use it as a negociation lever while in subsidized institutions a lot of residents simply lost their rights not even being made aware of it in due time (as there was a short prescription delay):  those people are assumed to have surrendered/relinquished their previous smoker habit(s) and there's no going back except if hiding in a ventilated closet.

 

Put shortly it's no longer criminal to consume cannabis no matter where it came from, e.g. the "legal" SQdC monopoly (mari-caca outlet stores...) or otherwise, yet in practice the users find themselves confronted frequently by mass-media shaming adds on top of having TV programmation flooded with alcohol propaganda via adds and more, much more.  For example, watching the Sci-Fi channel alone i can think of nearly a dozen different brands and still wonder why such double standards relatively to a noble plant that we're not even allowed to display in picture.  In addition i think municipalities have the power to compound a 3rd level of Prohibition 2.0 to that if they choose to do so;  i'm thinking of self-cultivation on an innaccessible private balcony being outlawed at least twice in Québec and at least once in Manitoba.  Oh it's legal all right, but the new monopoly dealer is many times as worse as any profiteer i've ever dealth with before - only once, because i'd never call a predator again if a deal felt less than satisfying.

 

So much for "légaleezation"!  Thanks but no thanks.  And the tendency will probably hit France soon too since i believe the present model may have been imported from there...  Next UK being a close neighbour it may follow the trend even if Biden finally manages to see the light in USA...  Not to mention many developped countries of the Commonwealth started to show signs that they could slip toward the rightist political spectrum!

 

So my foggy crystal ball warns that additional stress factors shall probably result from a socio-toxic mix of associated dynamics knowing practically all parties i can vote for are more than shy when it comes to dending us in front of a camera.  IMO bigot prohibitionists can be expected to win a few more points the same as if they were in an open bar...

 

In conclusion politicians are cranked up enough about cannabis already, imagine injection sites!  So...  Que sera, sera!  YMMV but i'm not going to enjoy a simple pleasure as mine under natural sunlight in my lifetime despite the fact it doesn't kill.

 

Good day, have fun!!  -_-

Edited by Egzoset

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Not that my getting a bit annoyed about this issue helps particularly.

But for people who complain about the tax money issue (as @Roy mentioned in his post) what about hypothetically contributing in some other way? With time, or energy, or at least making an effort to understand the issue better so we can have better dialogues about it? What about some basic effort to understand addiction better, for example?

In a way, money ends up being the most convenient and straightforward contribution (and for many people time definitely = money), and it's true that throwing money at an issue really isn't necessarily effective. People who work in the DTES related to addictions can probably tell you about the various problems at the institutional and structural level here, and listening and talking to people who have direct experience is usually helpful.

I like how people just expect problems to fix themselves. Especially without a significant investment of someone's time and energy.

FFS DO SOMETHING other than complain. Where is people's sense of civic responsibility? Engaging in political rhetoric alone certainly isn't exercising civic responsibility well.

Edited by modmyth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I think it’s because the US is so states based and diverse. So a super green state like Oregon will be progressive as fuck 

Edited by Joel3102

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I mean we did legalize marijuana as a country a few years ago. I think magic mushrooms are next over the next decade. The grey market selling baked magic mushroom goods has already began... similar to what happened with pot.

Police are also more understanding about personal possession of illegal substances here. They are more and more wanting to help you than harm you.

we have 2 or 3 major parties that are in favour of de-criminalization. However, the liberals are moving slow, and are likely to work hand and hand with communities that are dealing with it before they straight up de-criminalize it. Which, i think they should decriminalize all substances that people have for personal use. However, in Canada if its something like mushrooms or weed the government will likely only legalize it if it can control it and sell it. 

Meanwhile, all these street drugs kill young men and women everyday. I mean, people are going to do drugs. We just need to get them the right ones. Maybe so they don't need them. Plus, drug use is a holistic mental health issue than just the drugs themselves so its really even more complicated.

We need to lower the stigma around psychedelics. Especially mushrooms the science is just overwhelming at this point the biggest thing is just education. The public opinion is changing and will continue to do so. We have had years of drug war propoganda that needs to be undone. 

There is billions to be made off of mushrooms so and billions of people to help with them. So, lets goooo.

Note: It may be less to do with spiral dynamics but also the actually law, and regulation structure of the country? I don't know how it is in the states but I think in Canada the substance act is federal. I don't know if provinces can legalize things by themselves. 

Edited by Thought Art

"When you Look in the sky, Just try looking inside, God Knows what you might find... "Here Comes The Nighttime" -Arcade Fire 

Qigong and Spirituality +Vlog - Thought Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

Other countries are sheep. They will not make a move until The US does so first. 


I am the only thing stopping myself from receiving infinite Love form Myself. I am Infinite Love for god sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in metro Vancouver and I can tell you we have drug addicts littered all around the city. Where I lived, you can't leave anything outside your house and inside your car, otherwise some addict will try to steal it. Our car's window has been broken twice by addicts to steal things inside. Addicts cut my neighbors' house's wooden pillar to steal their bicycle which was locked to it! My neighbor actually found the cluster of addicts who stole their bike (as they were buying grocery the next day)! But the police didn't make make any arrests. They just asked, "Did you steal this bike?" "No, my friend left it here, don't know where he went." Case closed. The authorities here doesn't do anything about them, they just ignore them. There will be druggies unconscious on the side and the police will walk by, no helping them or even arresting them. I should mention the police station was less than a block away from my house. Metro Vancouver has been giving free supervised drugs to  addicts at pharmacies for some years now. 

Even if we give them supervised consumption and mental health sites, it still doesn't address the root problem. We are still working on the symptoms of the problem. There is something wrong with our society itself that people have to go to a mental health clinic to get off drugs that they shouldn't have been using in the first place. Why are people mentally unstable in the first place? I think our society doesn't want to look at itself otherwise the things it cherishes will come into scrutiny.  

 


“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

Portugal and the Netherlands have been doing it for a looong time.

Prague (Czech) has been doing it

Switzerland has been giving heroin to addicts for a looong time etc.

Truffles are legal in the Netherlands and Spain etc. i think so U.S. won't be the first

There's lsd therapy in some countries

and so on.

 

 

But yea once the U.S. does it will be great and many other countries will follow.

Edited by PurpleTree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Derek White said:

Why are people mentally unstable in the first place?

Something like 1 in 5 people have some mental illness and like 1 in 20 have a serious mental illness.

Think about those numbers.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I think it's because y'all can vote directly on certain stuff so as soon as most of the people want something it can pass. 

While here in Europe even if 99 percent of people want something in the end politicians make the last call. 

It could also be the good side of mah freedom ideology. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The thing with Insite was that, to my understanding, the people working with it never had the pretense of it "solving addiction". Isn't that a bit too much to ask of the project? Working on the front lines or even to hear about it: it's sobering if not just depressing. No one is actually throwing a YAY FREE DRUGS party. The premise of it is that an addict is gonna addict, moralizing about it isn't going to resolve the core of the issue either and neither is criminalization.

Insite was intended to stop people from dying of ODs in the street and limit diseases spread by dirty, shared needles. Other than the social/ moral ramifications of basically wholeheartedly endorsing people fending for themselves, what is the actual cost in $$$ with say... having those OD'ed people end up in emergency? What about with treating HIV/ hepatitis C related to needle use? Research supposedly shows that money ends up being saved.

Among the number of related essential issues, and there are quite a few:

*Aboriginal social issues, which I have written about before here (a high percentage of Metro Vancouver's homeless is aboriginal; I believe it's up to 50%. A question to ask: is the homeless person either a survivor of a residential school (abuse) or directly raised by someone who survived a residential school? (more abuse))
*Mental health infrastructure, as briefly mentioned above (especially the closing of Riverview Hospital), or the lack of it. I just recently read that Insite offers some resources because people doing the safe injection do ask about addiction recovery, but this alone is unlikely to be enough.

Addiction recovery is hard enough as it is even for people with means, isn't it? Let alone with a heap full of additional challenges on top of that.
 

Edited by modmyth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All hands on deck. Looking for a life purpose that matters? Doesn't have t be drugs but... it can be making the world a mentally healthy place.


"When you Look in the sky, Just try looking inside, God Knows what you might find... "Here Comes The Nighttime" -Arcade Fire 

Qigong and Spirituality +Vlog - Thought Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now