Increase in vaccine coercion

[impulse9]

1 hour ago, Recursoinominado said:

Let the specialists decide, stop pretending you know what the fuck you are talking about.

Exactly the kind of mindset that leads people into years of pain, misery and general suffering when they decide that the psychiatrists opinion is worth more than common sense and end up horribly addicted to benzos. Blind faith in authority is extremely stupid. And have you even considered the opinion of the experts that claim the opposite to what the media is feeding you with? You dont trust experts, you trust the media.

Edited August 4, 2021 by impulse9

[Recursoinominado]

26 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Exactly the kind of mindset that leads people into years of pain, misery and general suffering when they decide that the psychiatrists opinion is worth more than common sense and end up horribly addicted to benzos. Blind faith in authority is extremely stupid. And have you even considered the opinion of the experts that claim the opposite to what the media is feeding you with? You dont trust experts, you trust the media.

Blindly dismissing expert's opinions is just as bad and this is exactly the problem here.

People are so focusing in seem WOKE and against "mainstream thinking" that they make the epidemiologic mistake of believing nothing good comes from authorities or the media.

This isn't your everyday "take your medicines" advice, this is a global pandemic, a once-in-lifetime crisis, and going down into conspiracy rabbit holes are not the right action, the right action is to sober the fuck up and listen to the experts, essential oils and sunlight will not solve anything. 

None of you here knows more than the government pandemic experts, stop pretending you do.

[impulse9]

I never said you should blindly dismiss anything. This is a complex, nuanced problem and should be interpreted exactly as such. The problem with you is that you project the hardline anti-vaxx stance onto anyone who even remotely questions the current state of affairs.

You claim experts are infallible. I'm an expert in my own field. I can't tell you how many bullshitters pass as experts. Stop pretending like this is some trivial issue where you're the one who gets to decide what I put into my body and then claim some kind of moral high ground. And let me reiterate that what you're claiming is against basic human rights. Nobody can force a medical procedure onto you unwilling, so stop with this militant attitude. Want people to get vaccinated? Maybe try a loving and gentle approach instead of moralizing and claiming people are stupid for thinking for themselves. That might actually work. What you're doing right now has the exact opposite effect, namely I'm even more convinced that I won't take it, ever.

[Recursoinominado]

[Mason Riggle]

@Recursoinominado Further proof you lack nuance. Everything is black and white for you. 

It's possible to want to wear a seatbelt, understand seatbelts save lives, want others to wear seatbelts.. and STILL not want seatbelt wearing to be legally mandated.. And the fact that someone is against seatbelt mandates, does not make them 'anti-seatbelt'. 

[Guest Tobia]

@Recursoinominado lol. You are too dumb to have slightly nuanced position, huh?

Your approach of attacking and calling people stupid is unproductive and makes the situation worse. 

Most people don't have a problem with the vaccine itself, a tiny percentage is actually antivax.

People do not trust authority, do not trust government and don't want them to invade their body and private choices.

Do you have any emphaty or understanding as to why that might be?

If you can't figure it out, then you are a lost case.

As for @Leo Gura, that mindset is a direct insurance that you'll never solve your chronic health issues.

With that kind of mindset, naturopaths could be prohibited from working, herbs should be outlawed, talking about a natural diet of fresh foods is for conspiracy theorist.

You speak with the certainty of a frugivore that decides to eat a diet of just dead animals. Spitting in nature's face, spitting in god's face.

You are never going to outsmart nature. Unfortunately, you will pay the price for your arrogance.

[impulse9]

@Recursoinominado Maybe if you had worked on some actual scientific research in your life you would appreciate just how much of it is bullshit, random walks and best guesses. It's easy to pretend the experts know it all, especially if you lack expertise in some scientific field yourself. They don't know it all and a lot of the time the experts are simply wrong, and their opinions are invalidated over time. Which is why you should always use your best judgment, and not trust anyone simply on faith, not even those that claim the highest authority. My scientific background gives me a lot of insight into how things work in the real life. Those same experts you trust have colleagues that disagree with them, but you never hear about them in the news, because like you, the media likes to play the game where reality is black and white and there's no grays in between. Only one sided opinions fly, everyone else is labelled various names and ostracized.

Take the vaccine if you feel that is the right course of action, I will not stand in your way or claim that your choice is wrong. But I expect the same from you. Don't call people stupid and claim a moral high ground because you think you're justified to make choices for other people. I have my reasons for my own choices, and many others as well. If I respect your choice, then you should also respect mine. If your best shot at convincing others is shit slinging in the form of low intelligence memes, then maybe you're the one who needs to rethink your approach. Because this won't get you anywhere, you're just gonna end up frustrated and angry.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Where do you get the idea that a super-lethal mutant has more chance to get spawned in a non vaccinated person vs vaccinated ? I can see arguments on both sides here. 

We're dealing with a population of individuals, not just one individual. Less vaccinations -> less immune people -> more people infected -> more virus replications -> more mutations.

[knakoo]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

We're dealing with a population of individuals, not just one individual. Less vaccinations -> less immune people -> more people infected -> more virus replications -> more mutations.

Yes sure, but you can also argue that vaccins increase the risk of dangerous variants developing. 

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/covid-transmission-vaccinated-people-risk-of-resistant-variant-2021-7

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Leo Gura I think it's time for a purge...

[Gennadiy1981]

I am reading all these posts here and if a passerby would read this forum, he/she would say, wow what a low consciousnesses here. I am amazed how many people who probably never worked in a lab and are so knowledgeable or even aggressive. How many worked with viruses or even wore a negative pressure suit, Ia m sure most dont even know what it is and please dont google, its irreverent.

I was also severely surprised @Leo Gura with all my deepest respect to him, he acted so volatile as if perhaps either youtube or other social media he is on, told him not to question anything about vaccinations, as believe it or not some other social media did receive such messages. Of course this is just my theory and I hope its not a conspiracy theory. But people, we have to give each other respect and not solely jump to conclusions.

In general all sciences require debates and take form someone who did spend years on science, in science its always false until proven otherwise with experiments challenging the theory. You never make anything black and white in science, thats only reserved for politics.

And finally, whats the big deal to have an open mind, its not the end of the world if you listen or discuss intelligently with opposing ideas, remember you can always learn something from someone, having such mentality that your way is the highway is not going anywhere, well of course unless you benefit from it. And I will share my experience. I come from a very religious background and growing up I never accepted gay people, but learning how to unwind your biases, not an easy thing to do, I now understand all people. I am not gay in any way or form or shape, but I have a very close friend who is female gay and I do keep in touch with other individuals who are. I listen to them, they all have some personal story and instead of what even my modern religious leaders, at best call it a disease, I learned that its people's personal choice and I respect that. And I know I have also personal life choices which I made, which I would expect others to respect it, oh and one of them is that i am not taking this vax.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Yes sure, but you can also argue that vaccins increase the risk of dangerous variants developing. 

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/covid-transmission-vaccinated-people-risk-of-resistant-variant-2021-7

If you want to stop the virus from mutating, you need to stop it from replicating, and vaccinations is by far the most effective solution for this. Resistant variants are only a problem because we're sloppily vaccinating a few and letting it spread freely through the rest of the population.

[Recursoinominado]

Vaccines are our best bet right now if we want this nightmare to end in the near future, and everyone has to do it, like them or not.

Even if the "conspiracy talk" has some truth in it, it is something NONE of us can do anything about it, debates about "taking vaccines or not" are pointless.

There is a good chance that this virus is a natural occurrence, people are trying their best to solve this mess, others are doing their thing to earn some good money with it and there is nothing essentially wrong with it. There is a problem (virus), a solution (vaccine), and people selling and buying. Pretty simple. 

"But i don't trust government or mainstream media". So, you cry baby, what the fuck is your option here? You can take the vaccine and shut up or you can risk your life and everyone's life for some ignorant, selfish reaction to a serious situation.

You don't have to like, just take your damn vaccine and shut up about it.

People are overly overestimating their grasp on reality, no matter how many google searches you do, you will NEVER come close to 1% of what's going on in the world, just accept and live your life.

[impulse9]

Doesn't take much to show your true colors @Recursoinominado. And here I was thinking you're even remotely capable of being respectful towards another human being. My option is to ignore your opinion and not take the vaccine.

Edited August 4, 2021 by impulse9

[Recursoinominado]

5 hours ago, impulse9 said:

My option is to ignore your opinion and not take the vaccine.

And that's why we are fucked.

[impulse9]

I don't see the world ending over it.

[Parththakkar12]

57 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

And that's why we are fucked.

Unless, you find a way to go completely off-grid. You stop using their money, you grow your own food, you live in an intentional community, you stop watching TV and boom! COVID doesn't exist anymore, all of a sudden.

Think about this - Where did you get the idea that there is such a thing as COVID? If no one on TV scared you about it, would you even 'know' it exists?

Edited August 5, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, impulse9 said:

I don't see the world ending over it.

And that's why we are fucked.

Too many people thinking they are isolated units from society.

"My freedom of being dumb and stubborn over collective health."

You don't take the vaccine, the guy next to you don't, and the next, and the next.

Then we have hundreds of millions of people refusing to take simple measures to end this pandemic.

This will not be over until 95% of people are fully vaccinated.

The governments won't just give up and let stupid people do what they want putting others at risk.

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Think about this - Where did you get the idea that there is such a thing as COVID? If no one on TV scared you about it, would you even 'know' it exists?

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK, you are telling me that if other people didn't exist an INFECTIOUS disease wouldn't be a problem? Of course not, but we are not isolated snowflakes, we live in society and we have to act accordingly. 

I got COVID, it was not fun at all, never felt so bad so fast and I probably am in the top 10% of most healthy people in society. If i wasn't, i would be fucked. Also, to this day i don't feel completely fine (9 months later), i suspect i have some sequels from it. 

I know lots of people who got it, some even died.

This is not a conspiracy, this is real.

[Parththakkar12]

20 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK, you are telling me that if other people didn't exist an INFECTIOUS disease wouldn't be a problem? Of course not, but we are not isolated snowflakes, we live in society and we have to act accordingly. 

That's not what I said. I meant, the narrative. If the media didn't hype it up, would you even know it exists?

20 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I got COVID, it was not fun at all, never felt so bad so fast and I probably am in the top 10% of most healthy people in society. If i wasn't, i would be fucked. Also, to this day i don't feel completely fine (9 months later), i suspect i have some sequels from it. 

How do you know it was COVID? Who told you that? It's the confirmation-biased medical establishment, right?!

In his video, Deconstructing the myth of science, Part 2, Leo talked about the under-determination problem, in which you can use the same 'facts' and come up with an equally valid theory that's the exact opposite of the one you hold! Science is not exempt from this. The pharma-industry just creates the narrative that helps them profit the most! Marketing 101.

No conspiracy-theories here. Just asking questions and looking at facts about how the mind works! And how philosophy works.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Harlen Kelly]

13 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

And the fact that someone is against seatbelt mandates, does not make them 'anti-seatbelt'. 

It does not make them 'anti-seatbelt', it makes them irredeemable dullards. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Harlen Kelly