melodydanielluna

Spiral Dynamics Stage Red vs. Stage Orange

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I know they are different.  But I’m also struggling to understand how they are different.  I can see how Blue and Green are similar, but also radically different.  But Red and Orange seem so similar to me.  And I want to make sure I understand them correctly.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


I write pieces that make the reader think.

www.melodydanielluna.com

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You're asking what is the difference between Elon Musk and Tony Soprano.

The ultimate difference is this; In the Spiral Dynamics original book, the authors do admit that ORANGE is a return to RED ambition and drive to dominate. But, ORANGE build on top of BLUE (literally on the spiral), so it integrates the BLUE knowledge of right and wrong and morality. So that RED ambition becomes pacified, and there is an acknowledgment of social rules, norms, and laws.

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لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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Keep studying. Do more research and observe people and you'll see they are quite a lot different.

There is also that radical difference, but it may be more hidden to you depending on e.g. what kind of people you've been personally dealing with. Dealing with people especially in organizations where their values become exposed easily help a lot.

There is a featured thread on examples of every stage on Self-Actualization section that is worth checking out.

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Posted (edited)

Here ya go.

Orange 0f989d979196c98c938d1429d98b4b5e.jpg

vs.

Red Pinal-County-Gang-PCSO-NEW_qhx7rq.jpg

Lol.  But sorta seriously too. 

Edited by Matt23

"Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down"   --   Marry Poppins

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orange transcends blue and integrates it's circle of concern too. (means: orange transcends and includes "my country/nationality")
red doesn't have that circle of concern developed yet. It's very egoic, cares only about "me" and is only loyal to itself.
Orange is more in control of it's impulses, Red is impulsive.

Health Orange has the lessons of healthy Blue. Pure Red doesn't have those yet.


Miracle:    Impossible from an old understanding of reality, but possible from a new one.

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@melodydanielluna Two things come to mind in explaining this. Make the distinction between red and orange as abstract memes, verses when you see people "at" red, people at orange. If someone has an integrated all these stages in theory, then they'll have some elements which are red, some elements which are orange. 

Maybe I can be quite "red" at times {I'm using this language tentatively because I don't believe in it}. Red is a pure desire for personal power. Ambitious in that sense. It takes notions of strength in a very a literal sense.


Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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@Husseinisdoingfine  So interesting how stages return to the 'good' aspects of a previous stage, while taking the 'good' aspects of the stage they were just in, synthesizing the two and making something even stronger.

And thank you everyone for your help!

 

 


I write pieces that make the reader think.

www.melodydanielluna.com

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Posted (edited)

Oh thanks I just made this thread without checking. Been on my mind as an athlete.  

Personally I've always had the skills / tangibles to be the best but due to my upbringing I suppressed my aggressive tendencies to fit in the schooling system. Now after interacting with individuals in a contact sport environment who have mastered red I see the value in it and have incorporated it into my life.

As a result my performance has sky rocketed. Without Red you are a bitch - period. You have guilt for stepping over others and winning (Blue shadow from education). You cannot be an Alpha - the top - The best - The one people look up to without teeth. 

That doesn't mean you have to be a cu** to everyone which is the downfall of red without Blue, orange, yellow, green. 

I love this Nieztche quote, so apt.

“Of all evil I deem you capable: Therefore I want good from you. Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.”

When you are ''good'' (Nice) to others without the potential to harm them, you aren't good. You are a pussy. Only when you have the capacity to end someones life and choose not to do you become good. 

Edited by Ya know
Include blue - Jesus really did help me

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Just study the Stage Red examples mega-thread.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura Does this video count as RED? (You tell people to be mindful of their personal boundaries)

 


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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